Recent video of Elizaveta Tuktamysheva practising 3A

[matmuh]

Any hope from the Japanese ladies to continue the tradition? (Seems like definite "no" for Kanako and Satoko though).

i think miyabi oba lands it sometimes, i saw at one of japanese promo videos she landed it on warm up ( at last year's nationals i think) but she fell on actual program

 

[chairmanmao]

By the way people keep bringing her up you think Harding landed soooooo many 3A's in competition and yet the the amazing fact that the geniuses of this forum failed to verify before posting is Miss Harding only landed FOUR 3A's in her illustrious career and that is without a Korean technical controller scrutinizing it. On the other hand Asada has landed three in one competition multiple times.

 

[Crystallize]

By the way people keep bringing her up you think Harding landed soooooo many 3A's in competition and yet the the amazing fact that the geniuses of this forum failed to verify before posting is Miss Harding only landed FOUR 3A's in her illustrious career and that is without a Korean technical controller scrutinizing it. On the other hand Asada has landed three in one competition multiple times.

Lol. Somebody's mad. I'm pretty sure most people are referring to the quality of Harding's jumps. Yeah, she wasn't all that consistent with the 3A, but she was one of the few women who ever rotated it in competition. As for your "Korean technical controller" remark......

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

By the way people keep bringing her up you think Harding landed soooooo many 3A's in competition and yet the the amazing fact that the geniuses of this forum failed to verify before posting is Miss Harding only landed FOUR 3A's in her illustrious career and that is without a Korean technical controller scrutinizing it. On the other hand Asada has landed three in one competition multiple times.

If you want to play semantics, Mao hasn't landed three clean 3As in one competition "multiple times" (i.e. at least 3+ instances). There was 2010 Olympics. But when were the other instances that she's landed three clean 3As in one competition?

If you're calling out Harding for having landed "only" FOUR 3As... this was in 1991, when boots were heavier, and blade technology wasn't the same as 15-20 years later when Mao did them. Also, Harding's 3A while occasionally wild, was much superior quality than Asada's - greater height, ice coverage, and unlike the majority of Mao's 3As there was no question as to whether Tonya's were fully rotated.

Not to downplay Asada's 3A which is by far the most consistently done, but a woman even training a 3A in 1991 was essentially unheard of. It was a jump that the top men at the time struggled with - and for most men in 1991 (other than the occasional quad attempt by Browning) it was the hardest jump they attempted. Four, while it pales in comparison to the number Asada landed, is actually kind of a big deal given the time and the circumstances - after Ito/Harding, no woman landed a 3A for almost a decade.

 

[CarneAsada]

If you want to play semantics, Mao hasn't landed three clean 3As in one competition "multiple times" (i.e. at least 3+ instances). There was 2010 Olympics. But when were the other instances that she's landed three clean 3As in one competition?

If you're calling out Harding for having landed "only" FOUR 3As... this was in 1991, when boots were heavier, and blade technology wasn't the same as 15-20 years later when Mao did them. Also, Harding's 3A while occasionally wild, was much superior quality than Asada's - greater height, ice coverage, and unlike the majority of Mao's 3As there was no question as to whether Tonya's were fully rotated.

Well there was 2010 4CC and also Worlds 2010. She stood up on them with good landings even if 3 out of the 6 weren't ratified.

As for Harding, yeah her 3A was much bigger with better rotation, but she was always tilted in the air, not just "occasionally wild". Midori's air position was always very straight despite the so-called leg wrap.

 

[demarinis5]

Amazing. I don't think I've ever seen a skater use their arms so little as she does to get in the air. She is the most naturally gifted jumper in the ladies event today.

I agree and her 3A was beautiful!

 

[Sandpiper]

If you're calling out Harding for having landed "only" FOUR 3As... this was in 1991, when boots were heavier, and blade technology wasn't the same as 15-20 years later when Mao did them. Also, Harding's 3A while occasionally wild, was much superior quality than Asada's - greater height, ice coverage, and unlike the majority of Mao's 3As there was no question as to whether Tonya's were fully rotated.

Not to downplay Asada's 3A which is by far the most consistently done, but a woman even training a 3A in 1991 was essentially unheard of. It was a jump that the top men at the time struggled with - and for most men in 1991 (other than the occasional quad attempt by Browning) it was the hardest jump they attempted. Four, while it pales in comparison to the number Asada landed, is actually kind of a big deal given the time and the circumstances - after Ito/Harding, no woman landed a 3A for almost a decade.

Tonya was a stronger natural jumper than Mao... but there's no way her triple axel was superior. It's extremely crooked in the air; in fact, it's a classic illustration that falls--not just UR/edge problems as the ISU seems to think--are also caused by bad technique. Mao, on the other hand, at least made the best of her abilities: She has a very tight rotation and is--most of the time--straight in the air. I personally will take the triple axel achieved through technique and hard work, and performed a record number of times, over the triple axel that's done by "jumping big" and landed only a few times.

I do give Tonya credit for doing it in 1991. If she and Mao had landed the same number of triple axels, I would say without hesitation that Tonya's contribution was greater. That's not the case though.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Tonya was a stronger natural jumper than Mao... but there's no way her triple axel was superior. It's extremely crooked in the air; in fact, it's a classic illustration that falls--not just UR/edge problems as the ISU seems to think--are also caused by bad technique. Mao, on the other hand, at least made the best of her abilities: She has a very tight rotation and is--most of the time--straight in the air. I personally will take the triple axel achieved through technique and hard work, and performed a record number of times, over the triple axel that's done by "jumping big" and landed only a few times.

I do give Tonya credit for doing it in 1991. If she and Mao had landed the same number of triple axels, I would say without hesitation that Tonya's contribution was greater. That's not the case though.

I don't think the number of times you've done something necessarily means that one skater did an element better. Lipnitskaia has done more 3Z+3T than Arakawa, but the latter's 3Z+3T was better, IMO.

I will say under CoP, there was a much greater incentive to attempt a 3A points-wise, not to mention a 3A was allowed in a SP during Mao's time, not Harding's time. That being said, Mao's 3A ability spanned multiple seasons, not just one season like Tonya, and she's easily the queen of the 3A in terms of success with it (and she controls it better than Ito and Tonya).

But Harding and Ito always got theirs around, and while control is important on a jump, so is getting the rotations. Part of mastering a jump is creating surety that it's unambiguously fully rotated, instead of the typical "We'll have to see on replay if she gets credit for it".

 

[TheCzar]

I don't think the number of times you've done something necessarily means that one skater did an element better. Lipnitskaia has done more 3Z+3T than Arakawa, but the latter's 3Z+3T was better, IMO.

I will say under CoP, there was a much greater incentive to attempt a 3A points-wise, not to mention a 3A was allowed in a SP during Mao's time, not Harding's time. That being said, Mao's 3A ability spanned multiple seasons, not just one season like Tonya, and she's easily the queen of the 3A in terms of success with it (and she controls it better than Ito and Tonya).

But Harding and Ito always got theirs around, and while control is important on a jump, so is getting the rotations. Part of mastering a jump is creating surety that it's unambiguously fully rotated, instead of the typical "We'll have to see on replay if she gets credit for it".

Can I just say, that the reason why 'we'll have to see' Mao's axel on replay is because they can, and she skated in a period where everything is being scrutinised down to the quarter. They weren't showing slow motion playbacks of each take off and landing in 1991. Maybe they did, but it sure wasn't as accurate as it would be today. Even now, callers can call a jump URd when it's visibly clean (for example, Asada's 3F-3L at Sochi. Many commentators, Kurt Browning included, agreed it was clean) YES Ito's axel was undeniably round, and Tonya's was big enough that she could finish rotating before she could land, however, had they had that kind of technology back then, who's to say the veil wouldn't have dropped on Ito and Harding? The scrutiny would have been harder, not just on their axels but on every single jump.

The 3As in question are down to personal taste. I personally love Asada's for the aesthetics and Ito's for the sheer power. Harding's was an in between and sometimes it looked ugly to me- but then she never had the best form in anything. For someone who kept insisting in interviews that she was obsessed with the axel and the lutz, visually, you'd think Tonya needed more training in basic technique.

I get where you are coming from, and yes we need to give Tonya the credit she deserves. They ALL contributed to the sport. No matter how many times more Asada landed her axels doesn't take away from the fact that Tonya landed hers too.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Can I just say, that the reason why 'we'll have to see' Mao's axel on replay is because they can, and she skated in a period where everything is being scrutinised down to the quarter. They weren't showing slow motion playbacks of each take off and landing in 1991. Maybe they did, but it sure wasn't as accurate as it would be today. Even now, callers can call a jump URd when it's visibly clean (for example, Asada's 3F-3L at Sochi. Many commentators, Kurt Browning included, agreed it was clean) YES Ito's axel was undeniably round, and Tonya's was big enough that she could finish rotating before she could land, however, had they had that kind of technology back then, who's to say the veil wouldn't have dropped on Ito and Harding? The scrutiny would have been harder, not just on their axels but on every single jump.

Ito and Harding carried so much speed into their 3As that they almost certainly would have landed on their rear had they been short on rotation.

 

[CarneAsada]

I will say under CoP, there was a much greater incentive to attempt a 3A points-wise, not to mention a 3A was allowed in a SP during Mao's time, not Harding's time. That being said, Mao's 3A ability spanned multiple seasons, not just one season like Tonya, and she's easily the queen of the 3A in terms of success with it (and she controls it better than Ito and Tonya).

But Harding and Ito always got theirs around, and while control is important on a jump, so is getting the rotations. Part of mastering a jump is creating surety that it's unambiguously fully rotated, instead of the typical "We'll have to see on replay if she gets credit for it".

Under 6.0, there was still plenty of incentive to attempt a 3A, just because the points advantage wasn't codified doesn't mean the judges wouldn't immediately give the higher technical merit to a program with a 3A. In fact, it might have been more favorable because Asada could probably have won the SP in Vancouver if it was judged under 6.0. Also notice how Ito wasn't punished heavily for doubling or even singling a jump occasionally, as long as she landed her 3A (like at Worlds 1990 or at Trophee Lalique). Also, a 3A was allowed in the SP during Harding's time the same way it was allowed for half of Asada's career - as a combination jump. As for control, Ito was also miles better than Harding. Ito had no wild or tilted air position, the leg wrap was a part of her technique and not an unintended flaw like Nakano's. I'd still take Ito's over Asada's 3A any day, but if the Lipnitskaia fans can chant "height isn't everything" in every thread about jumps then I guess we can too when talking about Asada vs Harding.

 

[TryMeLater]

Under 6.0, there was still plenty of incentive to attempt a 3A, just because the points advantage wasn't codified doesn't mean the judges wouldn't immediately give the higher technical merit to a program with a 3A. In fact, it might have been more favorable because Asada could probably have won the SP in Vancouver if it was judged under 6.0. Also notice how Ito wasn't punished heavily for doubling or even singling a jump occasionally, as long as she landed her 3A (like at Worlds 1990 or at Trophee Lalique). Also, a 3A was allowed in the SP during Harding's time the same way it was allowed for half of Asada's career - as a combination jump. As for control, Ito was also miles better than Harding. Ito had no wild or tilted air position, the leg wrap was a part of her technique and not an unintended flaw like Nakano's. I'd still take Ito's over Asada's 3A any day, but if the Lipnitskaia fans can chant "height isn't everything" in every thread about jumps then I guess we can too when talking about Asada vs Harding.

Ito wasn't punished because even with the doubling or singling, she still had more content than almost all of the ladies (with or without the 3A).
A lady doing a 3Lz, 3F or a 3-3 was still a rare thing.
In 1991 Lalique Ito landed the 3A as well as the 3Lz-3T (in the LP) and had planned also a 3F-3T which she omitted. Unbelievable!

Edit: In fact she landed a 3Lz-3T, 3A-2T, 2F, 3S, 3F, 1L, 3L.

 

[Franklin99]

Ito wasn't punished because even with the doubling or singling, she still had more content than almost all of the ladies (with or without the 3A).
A lady doing a 3Lz, 3F or a 3-3 was still a rare thing.
In 1991 Lalique Ito landed the 3A as well as the 3Lz-3T (in the LP) and had planned also a 3F-3T which she omitted. Unbelievable!

Wow! She surely was waaaaaayyyy ahead of her time.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Well there was 2010 4CC and also Worlds 2010. She stood up on them with good landings even if 3 out of the 6 weren't ratified.

As for Harding, yeah her 3A was much bigger with better rotation, but she was always tilted in the air, not just "occasionally wild". Midori's air position was always very straight despite the so-called leg wrap.

Not to be a stickler (especially since we're talking about 3As here), but ratification and < is important if you're going to say "landed 3 triple axels in one competition, multiple times".

Otherwise we can say that Sarah Hughes is the first and only Olympian to land two 3-3 combinations in her free program, just because she "stood up on them with good landings" (when everyone knows they were UR).

 

[mskater93]

Can I just say, that the reason why 'we'll have to see' Mao's axel on replay is because they can, and she skated in a period where everything is being scrutinised down to the quarter. They weren't showing slow motion playbacks of each take off and landing in 1991. Maybe they did, but it sure wasn't as accurate as it would be today. Even now, callers can call a jump URd when it's visibly clean (for example, Asada's 3F-3L at Sochi. Many commentators, Kurt Browning included, agreed it was clean) YES Ito's axel was undeniably round, and Tonya's was big enough that she could finish rotating before she could land, however, had they had that kind of technology back then, who's to say the veil wouldn't have dropped on Ito and Harding? The scrutiny would have been harder, not just on their axels but on every single jump.

Neither Ito nor Harding EVER under-rotated a jump that they stood up on. Look at the last foot or so in the air and with both of these ladies, they were already backwards and checking out of their jumps, not squeezing the last little bit of rotation in there. I don't always (or often) agree with DMD, but DMD is correct that with the speed both women carried in and out of their jumps, they would have landed on their backsides if they were short rotation.

 

[CarneAsada]

Ito wasn't punished because even with the doubling or singling, she still had more content than almost all of the ladies (with or without the 3A).
A lady doing a 3Lz, 3F or a 3-3 was still a rare thing.
In 1991 Lalique Ito landed the 3A as well as the 3Lz-3T (in the LP) and had planned also a 3F-3T which she omitted. Unbelievable!

Edit: In fact she landed a 3Lz-3T, 3A-2T, 2F, 3S, 3F, 1L, 3L.

Exactly my point, what Ito was doing was so far ahead of her contemporaries that doubling one jump and singling another didn't matter at all (she even got a 6.0 for tech) when under CoP she would most certainly see a difference.

Not to be a stickler (especially since we're talking about 3As here), but ratification and < is important if you're going to say "landed 3 triple axels in one competition, multiple times".

Otherwise we can say that Sarah Hughes is the first and only Olympian to land two 3-3 combinations in her free program, just because she "stood up on them with good landings" (when everyone knows they were UR).

People overstate Hughes' UR problems from that skate, she landed one 3-3 that was fine (3T-3Lo) while the 3S-3Lo was quite short. And I'm not the one who said "multiple times," I'm just pointing out the other competitions chairmanmao might have referenced.

 

[Sandpiper]

Otherwise we can say that Sarah Hughes is the first and only Olympian to land two 3-3 combinations in her free program, just because she "stood up on them with good landings" (when everyone knows they were UR).

Why would we? Tara Lipinski already landed two 3-3s four years earlier.

 

[kiara_bleu]

It's disheartening to find a post about Elizaveta successfully landing 3As derail just because somehow praising Harding, of all people, is seen as another strike at Mao's legacy. Mao with her three triple axel attempts in competition combined with her artistically complex programs is currently untouchable. I don't know if Elizaveta in her career will even get anywhere near close to that. It's going to be exciting to follow how she does regardless and to me ladies figure skating just got a bit more interesting just when it has felt like a bit of a letdown when Mao, Carolina, and Yuna retired. When Elizaveta lands a ratified triple axel in competition and gets attention and praise for it, are we now going to have to be subjected to comments on how it shouldn't be a big deal because she didn't have to deal with Kim Yuna and her Korean mafia?

 

[mskater93]

When Liza does land a rotated 3A, there will be people arguing over whether it being clean besmirches Mao's legacy. You wait!

 

[karne]

I have a simple question:

Would there be 10 pages tearing apart Liza's 3A if she was an American? Or Canadian? Or even Japanese?

You bet there wouldn't be. There are 10 pages of anger because she is Russian.