Recommendations for boots with lower heels?

[rinkratpat76]

Hi all, I’m looking to replace my much-loved, older Jackson boots. The boot was discontinued in 2009, and Jackson boot lasts were apparently changed in 2018. I ordered new Jacksons in 2022, but could not adjust to the increased forward pitch of the boot. Does anyone know which (if any) brands might tend to have a lower heel and/or lower pitch?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hi all, I’m looking to replace my much-loved, older Jackson boots. The boot was discontinued in 2009, and Jackson boot lasts were apparently changed in 2018. I ordered new Jacksons in 2022, but could not adjust to the increased forward pitch of the boot. Does anyone know which (if any) brands might tend to have a lower heel and/or lower pitch?

Riedell, Risport RF line, and Graf. Now, what brand works with your foot depends on your foot shape etc.

 

[rinkratpat76]

Thank you for your reply, @Ic3Rabbit! My foot shape is Greek (left) or Roman (rt), with high arches, medium-to-wide ball of foot, and a narrow heel.

I've been skating 48 years, currently trying to hang onto whatever skills I can (single jumps, spin variations, basic footwork). I skate 3, occasionally 4x a week, 1.5-2 hr sessions, and am basically hoping for a quality boot that'll last. I have a strong preference for the leather I'm used to, though I suppose I shouldn't be too picky.

(EDIT: added tag because first time reply, and discovered hitting 'quote' does not equal quote-reply. Thanks for being my first reply to first post, Ic3Rabbit! I was hoping you'd chime in.)

 

[Query]

I can't speak to which brands work well for your particular feet, but Jackson rapid custom and full custom boots let you take some height off the heels, if you order them that way. I don't recall the exact details, but I think they let you choose, in rapid customs, to take off 3/8", 3/4", or 9/8". There is an extra charge of course.

I've been planning to cut height off my boot heels myself (on Jackson boots I bought for the sole purpose of experimenting), but haven't yet, so I can't tell you how that might work out. Be aware that some of the heel is hollow to save weight, so it is possible you have to cut off one of those amounts if you don't want to make major changes by gluing on another piece. And you might have to do it yourself - most skate techs would be afraid to make that major a change. It wouldn't be surprising if it were to affect the structural integrity of the boot - maybe boots are designed to take the stresses in particular orientations?

I think you have a "right" to be picky. You pay a lot for boots. And you use them in a sport where injury is possible, and where minor footwear changes can make a huge difference.

 

[rinkratpat76]

I can't speak to which brands work well for your particular feet, but Jackson rapid custom and full custom boots let you take some height off the heels, if you order them that way. I don't recall the exact details, but I think they let you choose, in rapid customs, to take off 3/8", 3/4", or 9/8". There is an extra charge of course.

I've been planning to cut height off my boot heels myself (on Jackson boots I bought for the sole purpose of experimenting), but haven't yet, so I can't tell you how that might work out. Be aware that some of the heel is hollow to save weight, so it is possible you have to cut off one of those amounts if you don't want to make major changes by gluing on another piece. And you might have to do it yourself - most skate techs would be afraid to make that major a change. It wouldn't be surprising if it were to affect the structural integrity of the boot - maybe boots are designed to take the stresses in particular orientations?

I think you have a "right" to be picky. You pay a lot for boots. And you use them in a sport where injury is possible, and where minor footwear changes can make a huge difference.

Honestly, the new Jacksons felt great before I got on the ice, and I've always loved my original pair. So that custom option IS very tempting. I have a fitting scheduled in Houston next week--I'll ask the tech about that. At least I'd know for certain (before attaching blades!) that the heel would be shorter.

I think I read a post by you before, @Query, mentioning your intent to try cutting down your boot heels! It resonated because my husband and I actually discussed doing the same with the brand new Jackson boots. (I also wrote the company and asked their opinion on it. Not surprisingly, they did not approve.) But in the end, I couldn't bring myself to take a saw to such pristine boots. Since I've worn them for less than two minutes, it probably makes better sense just to try to sell them and start over. But excellent idea to try that out on used boots, and I'd be very interested to know how that experiment works out!

 

[Diana Delafield]

Hi all, I’m looking to replace my much-loved, older Jackson boots. The boot was discontinued in 2009, and Jackson boot lasts were apparently changed in 2018. I ordered new Jacksons in 2022, but could not adjust to the increased forward pitch of the boot. Does anyone know which (if any) brands might tend to have a lower heel and/or lower pitch?

I used to wear Jacksons, but changed when the last did because they no longer fit my foot shape. Did you not also notice a difference in the fit of the toe box? I have Egyptian toes and narrow feet with very high arches, and found the whole front of my foot could slide from side to side and wiggle up and down in the changed Jacksons.

I switched to Risports, which have a lower heel than the current Jacksons. I also have a pair of Riedell boots that I use for quad roller skating. I haven't measured them for comparison, but they don't feel any different when I switch from one to another at my club (which has both a rink and a "wheelercise" gym for roller skating and wheelchair sports).

 

[tstop4me]

Honestly, the new Jacksons felt great before I got on the ice, and I've always loved my original pair. So that custom option IS very tempting. I have a fitting scheduled in Houston next week--I'll ask the tech about that. At least I'd know for certain (before attaching blades!) that the heel would be shorter.

I think I read a post by you before, @Query, mentioning your intent to try cutting down your boot heels! It resonated because my husband and I actually discussed doing the same with the brand new Jackson boots. (I also wrote the company and asked their opinion on it. Not surprisingly, they did not approve.) But in the end, I couldn't bring myself to take a saw to such pristine boots. Since I've worn them for less than two minutes, it probably makes better sense just to try to sell them and start over. But excellent idea to try that out on used boots, and I'd be very interested to know how that experiment works out!

If you want to reduce the heel pitch, it's not simply a matter of reducing the heel height. Look at the side of the boot and follow the contour of the outsole from toe to heel. You will note that the contour is relatively flat (or has a fairly shallow curvature) from the toe to a little past the ball. It then takes a steep upward bend to the heel. The height of the heel needs to correlate with the contour of the outsole such that a blade will nominally mate to the boot: the sole plate of the blade mates to the (front) sole of the boot and simultaneously the heel plate of the blade mates to the heel of the boot (the mating typically is not perfect, but close). If you simply shorten the heel of the boot substantially, the blade will no longer mate properly. You will need to carefully insert properly configured shims between the sole plate of the blade and the (front) sole of the boot.

If you are considering semi-custom or custom boots for a lower heel pitch, ask whether they merely use a shorter heel, or whether they modify the contour of the outsole as well such that a blade will nominally mate properly.

 

[tstop4me]

I used to wear Jacksons, but changed when the last did because they no longer fit my foot shape. Did you not also notice a difference in the fit of the toe box? I have Egyptian toes and narrow feet with very high arches, and found the whole front of my foot could slide from side to side and wiggle up and down in the changed Jacksons.

I switched to Risports, which have a lower heel than the current Jacksons. I also have a pair of Riedell boots that I use for quad roller skating. I haven't measured them for comparison, but they don't feel any different when I switch from one to another at my club (which has both a rink and a "wheelercise" gym for roller skating and wheelchair sports).

Jackson has changed their lasts (depending on the specific models) mucho times. So the old and the new lasts that you had might not be the same as the old and the new lasts that the OP has.

 

[rinkratpat76]

Jackson has changed their lasts (depending on the specific models) mucho times. So the old and the new lasts that you had might not be the same as the old and the new lasts that the OP has.

I did not know that; good point, then. My Jacksons were Jackson Professional (2005 or 2006), model discontinued in 2009.

If you want to reduce the heel pitch, it's not simply a matter of reducing the heel height. Look at the side of the boot and follow the contour of the outsole from toe to heel. You will note that the contour is relatively flat (or has a fairly shallow curvature) from the toe to a little past the ball. It then takes a steep upward bend to the heel. The height of the heel needs to correlate with the contour of the outsole such that a blade will nominally mate to the boot: the sole plate of the blade mates to the (front) sole of the boot and simultaneously the heel plate of the blade mates to the heel of the boot (the mating typically is not perfect, but close). If you simply shorten the heel of the boot substantially, the blade will no longer mate properly. You will need to carefully insert properly configured shims between the sole plate of the blade and the (front) sole of the boot.

If you are considering semi-custom or custom boots for a lower heel pitch, ask whether they merely use a shorter heel, or whether they modify the contour of the outsole as well such that a blade will nominally mate properly.

Thank you, I wondered about that. Seems I'd have to have such a lower heel that the sole of the boot would not be flush with the blade (if I could mount the blade at all). At least with customs, my guess is they'd take that into account when constructing the boot (since they offer three different heel heights). Another reason for not pursuing the do-it-myself approach.

I used to wear Jacksons, but changed when the last did because they no longer fit my foot shape. Did you not also notice a difference in the fit of the toe box? I have Egyptian toes and narrow feet with very high arches, and found the whole front of my foot could slide from side to side and wiggle up and down in the changed Jacksons.

I switched to Risports, which have a lower heel than the current Jacksons. I also have a pair of Riedell boots that I use for quad roller skating. I haven't measured them for comparison, but they don't feel any different when I switch from one to another at my club (which has both a rink and a "wheelercise" gym for roller skating and wheelchair sports).

I started with Riedells, wore that brand for roughly 30 years before switching to the Jacksons in 2005-6. I distinctly remember having to get used to the lower heel pitch of the Jacksons (which I'm now hopelessly used to). I don't remember the toe box fit feeling noticeably roomier than the Riedells, though. I have high arches, but with a Roman foot and wide ball; if anything, I probably appreciated the extra room. These were also heat moldable skates, so remember very little breaking in problem in general.

Good to know Risport has a lower heel than current Jacksons, at least. I'll be trying those on next week, though am a little nervous about Risport because I'm told the toe box is 'higher' than usual. A friend who recently bought them stuffs padding into the top of the toe box to make it feel more snug. I don't want to do that. I like a fit that feels like it's part of my foot. The more I think on this, the more I'm opening up to the idea of custom Jacksons, and I'd probably look into a snugger fit in the heel as well. (I've been leery of going the custom route because the custom Klingbeils I'd ordered 24 years ago sadly never did fit my feet. Which led to the purchase of the Jackson Professionals.)

Your club sounds marvelous, with the the wheelchair and roller skating options along with the rink! Honestly, I'm in awe of people who can switch back and forth between blades and wheels. I loved roller skating as a teenager, but cannot successfully go back and forth between the two today.

 

[tstop4me]

I ordered new Jacksons in 2022, but could not adjust to the increased forward pitch of the boot.

Honestly, the new Jacksons felt great before I got on the ice, and I've always loved my original pair.

Since I've worn them for less than two minutes, it probably makes better sense just to try to sell them and start over.

I did not know that; good point, then. My Jacksons were Jackson Professional (2005 or 2006), model discontinued in 2009.

* OK. So what model are your new Jacksons?

* Is "I've worn them [the new Jacksons] for less than two minutes" hyperbole or a factual statement? Does that mean you've still been wearing your old Jacksons for the last 3 yrs?

* I stopped skating for a long spell and started again in 2014 when I semi-retired. After about six months, I switched from my old Riedell Royals to a new pair of Jackson Elites. The overall fit of the Jacksons were much better for me, but I initially had some major issues with the higher heel pitch of the Jacksons. Not so much a problem on forward maneuvers, but backward maneuvers were totally screwed up. If I recall correctly, it took me about 20 hrs of ice time to re-adjust to the new boots (but I'm slow at accommodating to such changes).

* I'm not sure how much you'll get for your boots, even if they are barely used. If the new Jacksons appear to be a good fit (though you really can't say at this stage if you've only had a couple of minutes ice time), and the higher heel pitch is the only issue, you might want to give them more ice time. Again, I don't know whether an additional, say, 10 - 20 hrs of use will diminish the re-sale value much. You might want to ask your tech.

 

[rinkratpat76]

* OK. So what model are your new Jacksons?

* Is "I've worn them [the new Jacksons] for less than two minutes" hyperbole or a factual statement? Does that mean you've still been wearing your old Jacksons for the last 3 yrs?

* I stopped skating for a long spell and started again in 2014 when I semi-retired. After about six months, I switched from my old Riedell Royals to a new pair of Jackson Elites. The overall fit of the Jacksons were much better for me, but I initially had some major issues with the higher heel pitch of the Jacksons. Not so much a problem on forward maneuvers, but backward maneuvers were totally screwed up. If I recall correctly, it took me about 20 hrs of ice time to re-adjust to the new boots (but I'm slow at accommodating to such changes).

* I'm not sure how much you'll get for your boots, even if they are barely used. If the new Jacksons appear to be a good fit (though you really can't say at this stage if you've only had a couple of minutes ice time), and the higher heel pitch is the only issue, you might want to give them more ice time. Again, I don't know whether an additional, say, 10 - 20 hrs of use will diminish the re-sale value much. You might want to ask your tech.

The new Jacksons are Debut Women's model FS2450 (A/B) sized up slightly from the old to a 7.5. I've literally worn them maybe two minutes on the ice. They laced up fine, were comfortable to stand in, but when I got on the ice I was so unstable in them that I had to tiptoe down the side with one hand on the barrier. I hobbled down about 20' and back, then got off the ice and took them off. It was so unnerving, honestly, it was pretty mind-bending. Like I'd never skated a day in my life. I've broken in probably a half dozen pairs of skates over 48 years, and I can put up with several weeks of adjustment or breaking-in pain, but this was a totally foreign experience on the ice for me. I wasn't even this unsteady as a kid pond-skating on Sears Roebuck skates. The heel pitch was so extreme I knew it was something I'd never be able to adjust to. In addition, I do now wonder if they have a stiffness rating close enough to what I originally had with the old Jacksons. (Those still have no visible creasing in the boot, though it definitely feels like less ankle support now with the looser heels.)

So yes, I've continued wearing the 20yr old Professional DJ3005 Jacksons these past three years, re-lacing 2-3x each session, adding heel grips, and now even wearing socks. I'm being conservative in my jumping as there have been a lot more falls this past month. It's interesting, your switch from Riedells to Jacksons was the opposite of mine; could just be era, though. My Riedells (1990s model) were higher heeled than the Jackson Professionals bought in 2005-6...took me a couple weeks to adjust to the lower heels on the Jacksons. Maybe the DJ3005 model had lower heels than usual?

I agree, I doubt I'll be able to get much for the Debuts even though, apart from the temp screw holes, they look (even smell!) brand new. I do plan to take the new Jackson Debuts, the older Jacksons, and even the Klingbeils that never fit to the Houston fitting next week. (The Klingbeils were too tight 24 yrs and 20 pounds ago, so there's no hope there. I've had them stretched, and now the toebox is too large and across the middle is still too tight. Cannot stand in them, and my toes tingle just wearing them for 30 minutes in bed watching TV.)

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[zenghetti]

I did not see the brand listed, but Wifa is known for a shorter heel as well. Wifa is not widely used in the United States, but I do know a dealer in Oklahoma named Jennifer Kilmer. She does virtual fitting, if that helps.

 

[Query]

If you want to reduce the heel pitch, it's not simply a matter of reducing the heel height. Look at the side of the boot and follow the contour of the outsole from toe to heel. You will note that the contour is relatively flat (or has a fairly shallow curvature) from the toe to a little past the ball. It then takes a steep upward bend to the heel. The height of the heel needs to correlate with the contour of the outsole such that a blade will nominally mate to the boot: the sole plate of the blade mates to the (front) sole of the boot and simultaneously the heel plate of the blade mates to the heel of the boot (the mating typically is not perfect, but close). If you simply shorten the heel of the boot substantially, the blade will no longer mate properly. You will need to carefully insert properly configured shims between the sole plate of the blade and the (front) sole of the boot.

If you are considering semi-custom or custom boots for a lower heel pitch, ask whether they merely use a shorter heel, or whether they modify the contour of the outsole as well such that a blade will nominally mate properly.

As I mentioned in another thread, I asked Jackson whether the outsole shape was changed (my question was specific to Jackson Freestyles, which is not what the o.p. is concerned with!) when you ask them for a lower custom heel height. They responded in email. They didn't give me an explicit answer - but said they only made one heel shape, which I took to mean the answer was no. I was a bit surprised by that - since they were willing to remove up to 9/8" from the 2" heel. And it is the amount of curvature at least as much as the tilt that is uncomfortable for me. Perhaps because I have never worn any high heel shoes other than skates - in fact, I sometimes prefer "reverse heel" shoes, in which the heels are lower than the toes. So my feet never attained the degree of bend flexibility that high heel skates force.

Someone at my favorite rink showed me their (custom) SP Teri boots, which had a nearly flat footbed. But I don't know that a person who is very happy with the fit of (old) Jacksons, such as the o.p., would be equally happy with SP Teris. Plus, they WERE customs, and may therefore be atypical of SP Teris. Maybe someone here more knowledgeable could say.

I am currently out of town, in a place with no affordable ice rink, and have had to put a hold on my experiments with heel height.

So if the o.p. were to conduct such experiments, I would be very interested in the results.

 

[rinkratpat76]

I did not see the brand listed, but Wifa is known for a shorter heel as well. Wifa is not widely used in the United States, but I do know a dealer in Oklahoma named Jennifer Kilmer. She does virtual fitting, if that helps.

Thank you very much! I'll look into this.

 

[Diana Delafield]

I did not see the brand listed, but Wifa is known for a shorter heel as well. Wifa is not widely used in the United States, but I do know a dealer in Oklahoma named Jennifer Kilmer. She does virtual fitting, if that helps.

I wore Wifas for a few years in my teens when Dr May, their designer and the Canadian rep for the company, was coaching in Vancouver and I was sent to him for jump coaching. If you were Dr May's pupil, you wore his boots even if only during your lessons with him.

I don't know if the lower heels were a factor, but certainly my jumps improved. I got all my triples in those Wifas with him, as solo jumps and as throws.

 

[rinkratpat76]

As I mentioned in another thread, I asked Jackson whether the outsole shape was changed (my question was specific to Jackson Freestyles, which is not what the o.p. is concerned with!) when you ask them for a lower custom heel height. They responded in email. They didn't give me an explicit answer - but said they only made one heel shape, which I took to mean the answer was no. I was a bit surprised by that - since they were willing to remove up to 9/8" from the 2" heel. And it is the amount of curvature at least as much as the tilt that is uncomfortable for me. Perhaps because I have never worn any high heel shoes other than skates - in fact, I sometimes prefer "reverse heel" shoes, in which the heels are lower than the toes. So my feet never attained the degree of bend flexibility that high heel skates force.

Someone at my favorite rink showed me their (custom) SP Teri boots, which had a nearly flat footbed. But I don't know that a person who is very happy with the fit of (old) Jacksons, such as the o.p., would be equally happy with SP Teris. Plus, they WERE customs, and may therefore be atypical of SP Teris. Maybe someone here more knowledgeable could say.

I am currently out of town, in a place with no affordable ice rink, and have had to put a hold on my experiments with heel height.

So if the o.p. were to conduct such experiments, I would be very interested in the results.

First of all, my condolences for being somewhere where there is no ice rink; hope you are reunited soon.

I've never tried SP Teris (was told back in the day they weren't a good match for my foot shape). Like you, I couldn't tell you the last time I wore heels. And when I do, they're low; my high arches put all the weight mainly on the ball of my foot instead of distributing it evenly across the foot. I'm retired now, and basically live in my Skechers and skates.

I will tell you if I ever take a saw to those brand new Jacksons, but don't hold your breath. I will have to be pretty darn desperate (mainly bc I'm pretty convinced it would just break the sole once I attached the blades and stood in them.)

We're heading to Houston Monday, and I'm a little nervous. I plan to try out various brands, esp Risport RF line, but am also tempted by the custom Jackson. If I order that, have NO idea which custom heel option to choose. Don't want to take off 9/8" and have it be too much, but the way I felt on the ice, maybe I need that much taken off. (??) Sure hoping the tech there will know. The fitting fee will be applied to boot purchase if I can make a choice while there, so really hoping to make my purchase and be done with it.

Thank you Query (and ALL posters) so much for your feedback. Every tidbit has been helpful.

 

[rinkratpat76]

I wore Wifas for a few years in my teens when Dr May, their designer and the Canadian rep for the company, was coaching in Vancouver and I was sent to him for jump coaching. If you were Dr May's pupil, you wore his boots even if only during your lessons with him.

I don't know if the lower heels were a factor, but certainly my jumps improved. I got all my triples in those Wifas with him, as solo jumps and as throws.

Well, that's a pretty good testimonial (either for Wifas or the coaching )!

I learned to skate in my early 20s and have never attempted a triple in my life, so I'm sure the Wifas would be more than adequate for my needs. At 50, was trying to do a double lutz wearing my "Lady of de Nile" tee shirt (a birthday gift from someone the previous month), when I had a particularly bad fall that permanently messed up my left hip (well, aesthetically at least, lol; thankfully it still works)...so I figured I better wise up to what my tee shirt was trying to tell me, and just have fun with my singles from there on out.

 

[tstop4me]

My Jacksons were Jackson Professional (2005 or 2006),

... but am also tempted by the custom Jackson. If I order that, have NO idea which custom heel option to choose. Don't want to take off 9/8" and have it be too much, but the way I felt on the ice, maybe I need that much taken off. (??)

No need to guess how much to lop off (and as I mentioned above, that's not the only change you would need). If you do consider the semi-custom or full custom Jackson route, why don't you contact them, and see whether they still have the engineering specifications for your old boots (that you like so much) in their archives? If so, see whether they can reproduce the same heel pitch in a current model.

 

[rinkratpat76]

No need to guess how much to lop off (and as I mentioned above, that's not the only change you would need). If you do consider the semi-custom or full custom Jackson route, why don't you contact them, and see whether they still have the engineering specifications for your old boots (that you like so much) in their archives? If so, see whether they can reproduce the same heel pitch in a current model.

Excellent suggestion and perfect timing as I had “Call Jackson” on my list for this morning (and now I’ll even know what to say ). Thank you!!

(And if anybody knows the correct # to call in order to reach the right person at Jackson, I’m all ears. But otherwise, I’ll just start with whatever’s on their website.)
ETA: found a number to try from an Aug 2022 post in here; will start there.

 

[rinkratpat76]

No need to guess how much to lop off (and as I mentioned above, that's not the only change you would need). If you do consider the semi-custom or full custom Jackson route, why don't you contact them, and see whether they still have the engineering specifications for your old boots (that you like so much) in their archives? If so, see whether they can reproduce the same heel pitch in a current model.

Okay, called Jackson at their USA # (1-800-263-1666 ext 228) and was successfully redirected to Danielle Larocque who gave me some vital info going into this fitting appt:

1–There is NO archival engineering info available for the Jackson Professional DJ3005 boots discontinued in 2009.

2–Jackson is no longer doing heel adjustments or offering the three different heel heights for their custom boots.

3–*Any Jackson boots that I order today—including full customs—will have the identical heel pitch as the unwearable 2022 Debut Fusions now sitting in my closet.*

4–The only option offered is the “leather sole” option, and my new boot tech (a 4–hr drive away in Houston) could sand the heels down in an attempt to adjust for pitch difficulties.

So…bad news, but critically helpful before the tech appt. I think I’ve just taken Jackson off my list for replacement boots. Will be focusing on Risport RF line and any other boots recommended by my tech or mentioned in here (Graf, Reidell, Wifa?) that they might have for me to try on.

A huge thank you, again, to you all and I’ll post a follow up after the tech visit.