Repeated problems with Matrix blades

[jennyskate]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here!

I wanted to share my not-positive experience with the Matrix Supreme blade from Jackson Ultima. This is already my fourth pair, and unfortunately every single one has had issues:

- Screws falling out of the blade
- Clicking sounds and movement of the blade in the aluminum body while skating
- Two blades even broke — both ripped in the same way on the front plate

Honestly, I don’t even know why I kept buying this model, but the shop (I won’t name them) kept assuring me these problems weren’t common. However, when I started asking around, I heard from other skaters who had very similar issues with this blade. That makes me think I might not have been given the full picture. Sadly, it’s the only shop in town, so my options were limited.

I wanted to share my experience and ask: Has anyone else had similar problems with the Matrix blade?
Also, do you think there’s any chance I can get my money back after going through four pairs?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Matrix-blade.jpg

drive.google.com

 

[tstop4me]

Honestly, I don’t even know why I kept buying this model, but the shop (I won’t name them) kept assuring me these problems weren’t common.

* I have no direct experience with Ultima Matrix blades to offer. But I will raise some general issues for you to consider.

* When I first read this, what popped into my mind was the adage: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." But fool me four times ... ????

* In each instance, what time elapsed between date of purchase and date of failure? I.e., what service life did you get from each blade? What is your level of skating? How often do you skate (hrs/wk; wks/yr)?

* Did you purchase the blades from an authorized Jackson Ultima dealer? Did they ever reach out to Jackson for remedy (see next bullet below)?

* There is a manufacturer's warranty covering manufacturer's defects. You should confirm with Jackson the length of the warranty for your specific blade. Their website has this wording: "Jackson Ultima Skates warranties the quality of all figure skates and boots for six months from the date of purchase against defects in material or workmanship under normal use and care. Product found to be defective will be repaired or replaced at our discretion. Repaired product (or replacement product) will carry a six month guarantee from the original date of purchase." It doesn't specifically say "separate blades", so I would confirm what the coverage is on your blade.

* The failures, of course, could be due to (1) manufacturing defect, (2) improper mounting by the tech, or (3) misuse or lack of maintenance by the skater. And all that has to be sorted out.

* With respect to the loose screws holding the runner to the chassis, were there any instructions provided by Jackson or your tech to check the tightness of the screws regularly? Did Jackson or your tech recommend applying thread-lock compound to the screws should they loosen?

* Did you or your tech check the tightness of the mounting screws (on sole and heel plates) regularly?

* The photo on the lower right shows substantial damage to the heel of the aluminum chassis. Did you have repeated heavy falls there?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

One of the reasons I will always suggest MK or JW blades only. I have worn/tested many brands and it always comes back to JW or MK for me.

 

[NanaPat]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here!

I wanted to share my not-positive experience with the Matrix Supreme blade from Jackson Ultima. This is already my fourth pair, and unfortunately every single one has had issues:

- Screws falling out of the blade
- Clicking sounds and movement of the blade in the aluminum body while skating
- Two blades even broke — both ripped in the same way on the front plate

Honestly, I don’t even know why I kept buying this model, but the shop (I won’t name them) kept assuring me these problems weren’t common. However, when I started asking around, I heard from other skaters who had very similar issues with this blade. That makes me think I might not have been given the full picture. Sadly, it’s the only shop in town, so my options were limited.

I wanted to share my experience and ask: Has anyone else had similar problems with the Matrix blade?
Also, do you think there’s any chance I can get my money back after going through four pairs?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Matrix-blade.jpg

drive.google.com

Did you pay for all four pairs? I would think that if you wanted a free replacement under warranty, that would have had to happen at the time you got the replacement.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here!

I wanted to share my not-positive experience with the Matrix Supreme blade from Jackson Ultima. This is already my fourth pair, and unfortunately every single one has had issues:

- Screws falling out of the blade
- Clicking sounds and movement of the blade in the aluminum body while skating
- Two blades even broke — both ripped in the same way on the front plate

Honestly, I don’t even know why I kept buying this model, but the shop (I won’t name them) kept assuring me these problems weren’t common. However, when I started asking around, I heard from other skaters who had very similar issues with this blade. That makes me think I might not have been given the full picture. Sadly, it’s the only shop in town, so my options were limited.

I wanted to share my experience and ask: Has anyone else had similar problems with the Matrix blade?
Also, do you think there’s any chance I can get my money back after going through four pairs?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Matrix-blade.jpg

drive.google.com

I've never worn any but MK blades my entire career, and never had a problem with them that I can remember (admitting this goes right back to early childhood when my coach handled anything to do with boots and blades). As others are asking, were the replacements all made within the time span of the original warranty? And looking at your photos, what are you working on technically, at what level that might be putting too much stress on your blades? What care do you give your skates at the end of a session? (I remember a friend who used to literally just toss his skates into the trunk of his car with no wrapping at all, and then complained that his blades were always getting chips in them. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but are you protecting the blades off ice with soakers and/or some kind of wrap?)

If your skate shop is the only one around, then other skaters at your club must use the same shop and fitter. Do they have blade problems also? Particularly, do they have problems with other brands and models of blades, which would tell you the source may be at the shop's end?

I'd say give up on these blades and go for a pair of Coronation Aces or MK Pros, the reliable workhorses of the ice world.

 

[jennyskate]

* I have no direct experience with Ultima Matrix blades to offer. But I will raise some general issues for you to consider.

* When I first read this, what popped into my mind was the adage: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." But fool me four times ... ????

* In each instance, what time elapsed between date of purchase and date of failure? I.e., what service life did you get from each blade? What is your level of skating? How often do you skate (hrs/wk; wks/yr)?

* Did you purchase the blades from an authorized Jackson Ultima dealer? Did they ever reach out to Jackson for remedy (see next bullet below)?

* There is a manufacturer's warranty covering manufacturer's defects. You should confirm with Jackson the length of the warranty for your specific blade. Their website has this wording: "Jackson Ultima Skates warranties the quality of all figure skates and boots for six months from the date of purchase against defects in material or workmanship under normal use and care. Product found to be defective will be repaired or replaced at our discretion. Repaired product (or replacement product) will carry a six month guarantee from the original date of purchase." It doesn't specifically say "separate blades", so I would confirm what the coverage is on your blade.

* The failures, of course, could be due to (1) manufacturing defect, (2) improper mounting by the tech, or (3) misuse or lack of maintenance by the skater. And all that has to be sorted out.

* With respect to the loose screws holding the runner to the chassis, were there any instructions provided by Jackson or your tech to check the tightness of the screws regularly? Did Jackson or your tech recommend applying thread-lock compound to the screws should they loosen?

* Did you or your tech check the tightness of the mounting screws (on sole and heel plates) regularly?

* The photo on the lower right shows substantial damage to the heel of the aluminum chassis. Did you have repeated heavy falls there?

Thanks for all the detailed points. Just to share a bit from my side:

• The issues usually start after about 6 months of use.
• I’m doing 2A and working on triple toe + sal.
• Bought them through an authorized Jackson dealer. Not sure if they’ve been talking to Jackson directly, I’ve been thinking of reaching out myself.
• The blades keep failing in the same way, and when I asked around, a few other skaters and coaches (from different town) said they’ve seen the same thing over the years.
• I never got any instructions with the blades or in the box. Once the screws started loosening, I ended up tightening them after every single practice.
• I really take care of my blades.
• They’ve only been through regular use on the ice. Sure, I fall sometimes, but no more than anyone else training at this level.

So it really doesn’t feel like misuse or bad maintenance — seems more like a design issue with this model.

 

[tstop4me]

Thanks for all the detailed points. Just to share a bit from my side:

• The issues usually start after about 6 months of use.
• I’m doing 2A and working on triple toe + sal.
• Bought them through an authorized Jackson dealer. Not sure if they’ve been talking to Jackson directly, I’ve been thinking of reaching out myself.
• The blades keep failing in the same way, and when I asked around, a few other skaters and coaches (from different town) said they’ve seen the same thing over the years.
• I never got any instructions with the blades or in the box. Once the screws started loosening, I ended up tightening them after every single practice.
• I really take care of my blades.
• They’ve only been through regular use on the ice. Sure, I fall sometimes, but no more than anyone else training at this level.

So it really doesn’t feel like misuse or bad maintenance — seems more like a design issue with this model.

* There's still some missing key pieces of info in your reply. But what we can conclude is that this particular blade, as mounted by your particular tech, does not suit your particular needs. After the failure of the first blade, I can understand the tech convincing you to try a second time. But if the tech was so confident that the first blade was indeed a rare defective one, then they should have replaced it for free (or at least given you a hefty discount). After the failure of the second blade, however, I cannot understand how the tech convinced you to buy a third pair, and then a fourth pair.

* So going forward, you need a different blade; and, if at all possible, a different tech. The failed blades should have ben addressed by the tech or by Jackson via the tech each time you brought them back. Apparently this was not done. I suppose there's no harm (other than time and frustration) in raising the issue to your tech (and then to Jackson if the tech does not respond satisfactorily), but I'm not sure what compensation you can expect this far after the fact ... and given that you kept buying the same blade from the same tech.

* But it will be interesting to hear from other skaters who have used your blade.

* I do wish you good luck in solving your blade issue, so you can skate safely.

 

[IceM]

Haven't worn Matrix blades myself, but have picked a loose screw on ice one time that was missing from a skater, so it was dropped during the session.

That's just the nature of the design, as the vibration forces involved and the metal on metal screws don't play ball that well. All you can do is to check the screws each time before you step on ice, or even during a session (like before and/or after doing heavy jumping).

A more hard core solution would be to glue the screws in place, but of course detaching the runner later is going to be harder then. And obviously you void any warranty.

If I were you, I would switch to Paramount 12" blades that don't use screws at all. Or go to a genuine Gold Seal.

 

[tstop4me]

A more hard core solution would be to glue the screws in place, but of course detaching the runner later is going to be harder then. And obviously you void any warranty.

If you intentionally want to remove the runners later, you would use thread-locking compound (which I mentioned above), not just any glue. One common brand is Loctite; it comes in different formulations with different holding strengths (different values of torque needed to loosen the screws). But why would you want to remove the runners later? The Matrix RXS blade is designed to have interchangeable runners, but the regular Matrix blades are not.

If loose screws were the only issue that the OP had, then a suitable grade of Loctite or other adhesive would likely solve the problem. Though you make a good point about the warranty; it would be wise to check with Jackson whether that would void the warranty (and whether an authorized tech, not the skater, would need to apply the Loctite or other adhesive). But the OP has more serious problems with the failed joints at the sole plates. That screams out to switch to another blade (or another tech or both).

ETA: I just checked the Loctite website. Loctite Red needs to be removed with high heat and should be considered a quasi-permanent adhesive.

 

[IceM]

If you intentionally want to remove the runners later, you would use thread-locking compound (which I mentioned above), not just any glue. One common brand is Loctite; it comes in different formulations with different holding strengths (different values of torque needed to loosen the screws). But why would you want to remove the runners later? The Matrix RXS blade is designed to have interchangeable runners, but the regular Matrix blades are not.

If loose screws were the only issue that the OP had, then a suitable grade of Loctite or other adhesive would likely solve the problem. Though you make a good point about the warranty; it would be wise to check with Jackson whether that would void the warranty (and whether an authorized tech, not the skater, would need to apply the Loctite or other adhesive). But the OP has more serious problems with the failed joints at the sole plates. That screams out to switch to another blade (or another tech or both).

ETA: I just checked the Loctite website. Loctite Red needs to be removed with high heat and should be considered a quasi-permanent adhesive.

Thread-locking compounds are glues, as in adhesives, too. RXS blade runners are just made with replaceable runners that are separate from the toe picks. But you could replace the runner on any Matrix blade if you really wanted to, like replacing a broken sole plate, especially if you have four pairs of blades to choose from that you've gone through, with plenty of runners to spare.

I have seen toe plates with similar cracks on welded carbon-steel blades. It does happen. I would presume that aluminum chassis are more durable because there’s no welding. However, I would also suspect that loose screws could be a culprit in breaking the sole plate more easily, since they produce unusual forces that aluminum isn’t good at handling. Mounting could play a role, but I don’t see that as a major factor.

Which is why I was commenting more on the loose screws and the clicking sounds, which are more of a feature on Matrix blades, and probably the cause for the sole plates breaking too. That’s also why I would suggest moving to another blade, since the design is, let’s say, not really optimal.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Thanks for all the detailed points. Just to share a bit from my side:

• The issues usually start after about 6 months of use.
• I’m doing 2A and working on triple toe + sal.
• Bought them through an authorized Jackson dealer. Not sure if they’ve been talking to Jackson directly, I’ve been thinking of reaching out myself.
• The blades keep failing in the same way, and when I asked around, a few other skaters and coaches (from different town) said they’ve seen the same thing over the years.
• I never got any instructions with the blades or in the box. Once the screws started loosening, I ended up tightening them after every single practice.
• I really take care of my blades.
• They’ve only been through regular use on the ice. Sure, I fall sometimes, but no more than anyone else training at this level.

So it really doesn’t feel like misuse or bad maintenance — seems more like a design issue with this model.

Are you feeling tied to an 8ft rocker or would you be okay with a 7ft one?

If so, may I suggest an MK Phantom to you as your possible next blade.

 

[IceM]

Are you feeling tied to an 8ft rocker or would you be okay with a 7ft one?

If so, may I suggest an MK Phantom to you as your possible next blade.

Out of curiosity, do you know if Phantom is close to the Supreme, or why would you recommend, what seems like, a totally different blade?

 

[jennyskate]

Yes, I paid full price for all the Matrix blades. Maybe I wasn’t mature enough at the time to ask for a replacement or free pair. At first, I thought it was normal to change blades that often, and since the skate tech didn’t seem too surprised or worried about it, it never really crossed my mind that there might be an issue with the blades themselves.

And yes, there are other skaters in my club who’ve had problems. Almost everyone experiences the “clicking” of the runner inside the chassis, though not all of them have loose screws — some do, some don’t. I guess that kind of normalized the problems for me as well.

Thanks for recommending other blades. I’ve been considering alternatives, and I’m eager to give the Blade Science blades a try. Does anyone here have experience with them? I have a friend who uses them and she was very positive about the difference. I sometimes feel pain in my lower back after long sessions, so I’m hoping they might help reduce that strain. They also offer different profiles, I think I'd prefer to stay on 8ft rocker and they do offer the Supreme profile.

 

[Query]

Wow! For what it is worth, Jackson Ultima appears to offer an "Apex Supreme" blade, which is a single piece of metal, no screws. Probably not aluminum frame. They are steel with a titanium coating\. You might call Jackson up to see if they have the same shape. They are likely heavier, but if you are breaking your blades, that might be for the best? I don't know whether they will rust more easily than the Matrix blades, which AFAIK are all some type of stainless steel. But I have not used them, and I'm not nearly at your skating level anyway, so I can't review them for you. BTW, they aren't cheap, but neither are Matrix blades.

See https://jacksonultima.com/pages/bladesfeatures for manufacturer comments on different series of their (high level) blades.

Your blades have been listed by Jackson Ultima as appropriate to high level skaters, so your skating level shouldn't be an excuse for them to break.

It makes sense, as others have mentioned, to call Jackson in any event to see if they have any suggestions, or are willing to give you a break.

Is your skate tech well regarded? Some techs warp the blade mounting plate to make it fit the bottom of skates - I personally think that it is much better to add shims so they fit without bending anything. That places a lot less stress on the blades. Also makes it less likely to warp the runners.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Yes, I paid full price for all the Matrix blades. Maybe I wasn’t mature enough at the time to ask for a replacement or free pair. At first, I thought it was normal to change blades that often, and since the skate tech didn’t seem too surprised or worried about it, it never really crossed my mind that there might be an issue with the blades themselves.

And yes, there are other skaters in my club who’ve had problems. Almost everyone experiences the “clicking” of the runner inside the chassis, though not all of them have loose screws — some do, some don’t. I guess that kind of normalized the problems for me as well.

Thanks for recommending other blades. I’ve been considering alternatives, and I’m eager to give the Blade Science blades a try. Does anyone here have experience with them? I have a friend who uses them and she was very positive about the difference. I sometimes feel pain in my lower back after long sessions, so I’m hoping they might help reduce that strain. They also offer different profiles, I think I'd prefer to stay on 8ft rocker and they do offer the Supreme profile.

No to blade science blades, just my opinion.

 

[SkateMomVancouver]

Do you want to give a try to YS Blades from Japan? Their blades are cut out from one piece of metal and used by many Japanese top skaters, such as Yuma Kagiyama, Shoma Uno, Kazuki Tomono, Riku Miura & Ryuichi Kihara, etc. One female skater I know at your level switched from Matrix to YS blade as Matrix kept on breaking on her.

My Japanese skate tech told me that this blade seldom requires sharpening, some didn’t need to sharpen for 5, 6 years. My friend recently purchased the blades and had her parents in Japan ship them over to Canada. My tech in Canada can also import them to Canada, if you’re interested.

YS BLADES Official Site - For all figure skaters aiming for the top

ysblades-official.com

 

[jennyskate]

I reached out to Jackson but haven’t heard back yet (it’s only been four days, so I’ll give it a bit more time). Thanks again for all the blade recommendations. After a lot of thought I decided to go with Blade Science. I spoke with a couple of skaters who use them and the feedback was consistently positive. I also contacted the company with some questions and they were quick and helpful in their replies. I’m pretty excited to try them

 

[Diana Delafield]

I reached out to Jackson but haven’t heard back yet (it’s only been four days, so I’ll give it a bit more time). Thanks again for all the blade recommendations. After a lot of thought I decided to go with Blade Science. I spoke with a couple of skaters who use them and the feedback was consistently positive. I also contacted the company with some questions and they were quick and helpful in their replies. I’m pretty excited to try them

While the two skaters I know who've tried them were very negative and quickly abandoned them for more traditional blades. Good luck, but.....

 

[jennyskate]

While the two skaters I know who've tried them were very negative and quickly abandoned them for more traditional blades. Good luck, but.....

Could you DM me their contact info (or ask them to DM me)? I’d like to hear their first-hand experience.

 

[Diana Delafield]

Could you DM me their contact info (or ask them to DM me)? I’d like to hear their first-hand experience.

They're not on GS and I don't know their email addresses. They're skaters at my club whom I don't see often or know well, but I got talking to them in the dressing room one day when a group of us there were discussing blades.

What I do remember is that they both said the blades are designed for adult-size elite skaters doing a lot of quads in practice and wanting to reduce the impact on repeated hard landings. For skaters the weight of adult women doing mostly doubles, or learning jumps and still doing singles, the design makes for a wobbly, unsteady feel on landings. They both said the high price wasn't worth it for anyone lower than the very top level technically. Sharpening was also more expensive and many technicians didn't have the sharpening equipment to handle the design so they had to travel to another city to find someone who could do that, or remove the blades and ship them to be sharpened each time.

Spins had to be relearned from the beginning with a different technique. One managed to relearn up to a slow speed, but only a basic upright stance, no sit or camel spins, while the other gave up on them after a month of trying to spin at all. Catchfoot spins or spirals were pretty much impossible because of the design of the blades.

And then when they returned to what they called "real" blades, they had to spend time correcting their technique and relearning. That's all I can remember, but in general they thought they weren't worth the cost for the average competitor. The man they'd met who talked them into trying them had commercial sponsors and a lot of money to play around with and wasn't really a figure skater -- he was, I think they said, either a skateboarder or freestyle skier who loved to experiment with multiple revolution jumps on all sorts of equipment.

If I see either of them again at my club, I can ask for more details, but that was months ago. My pairs partner and I practise in two different rinks and either rent private ice or go at off-peak times, so we don't interact with many other skaters unless there's a club show in the works with rehearsals.

If you have extra money and the time to relearn to skate from the beginning with a different technique, and a new coach who can teach that, then go ahead and try. Age is catching up to me, but I was skating at triple jump level competitively and still land senior-level throws on a regular basis. I use MK Phantom blades, if you want one with a pick that assists jumps. I couldn't and wouldn't waste my own money on a Blade Science pair, but if you can afford to experiment, then good luck and do report back here with a review, not in the first flush of enthusiasm but after relearning basic skating and having had to have them sharpened several times.