Repeated problems with Matrix blades

[jennyskate]

Well, let's just say I've skated and worked all over the world and in and out of rinks so I think I would be pretty darned familiar with ice rink lockers and they aren't meant for LONG TERM storage, so if that's where you leave your skates when you go home and then come back get them and skate on them then back in locker, it's not good at all and IDC who else is doing it. I'm not the only one who mentioned or liked my post so if you want to keep doing it then so be it, but if the boots have issues or future blades...that's your decision. That is all we are saying. Now, I know what the materials for all blades out there are and I didn't say all materials rust. I mentioned many things that can happen to ANY material a blade is made from as well as boots.

I think you’re making a lot of assumptions without really knowing anything about the place or conditions we’re talking about. Our locker is specifically made for storing and drying skates, it’s dry, ventilated, and used by dozens of skaters and coaches who have no issues with their boots or blades. My boots are in perfect condition, and the only skaters who have had problems are those using Matrix blades, which clearly points to a blade issue rather than storage. Comparing our rink locker to random lockers around the world, or even to my home... places you’ve never been, just doesn’t make sense. Every environment is different. So no, there are no “extreme conditions” in our locker, you’re just guessing that there are, without knowing anything about it. As Query said, exposure to salt water or dirty water would be extreme conditions. Is that what you’ve seen around the world? Well, just for your info, we don’t store our skates in salt or dirty water.

 

[jennyskate]

Stainless rustproof isn't completely rust proof. I had some Matrix blades (440 alloy - possibly 440C) in a place that flooded. It destroyed them.

Even aluminum can be destroyed by exposure to salt water, or dirty water. I've had that problem with kayaks, roof rack bolts, and the bolts that held on truck caps. Some times the only answer I know of is to cut off the head, and/or drill out the bolt, use a tap and die kit, etc.

But those are pretty extreme conditions. If you dry out your stainless steel blades after use, it probably won't be a problem. Unless you skate on salt water, or natural ponds.

Unfortunately, most of the MK and JW blades that you are considering are not stainless steel. They should get more care. And, at least in my experience, they need to be sharpened more often (and will therefore have a shorter lifetime - though not, I would hope, as short as your Matrix blades are having) - as though some corrosion actually occurs while skating. But maybe there is a way to prevent that.

Anyway, your coach might be able to tell you how typical your issues with breakage are at your level.

Maybe it is worth doing the repairs others have mentioned on your Matrix blades - i.e., putting the screws back in, with a thread lock compound. That doesn't seem too much work. Won't fix the broken blades, but will deal with the most obvious parts. Also, if you glue in some padding between the runner and the slot it fits into, I think that will fix the "clicking". Mine fell out (this was on a prior generation of Matrix blades, that was designed to have replaceable and interchangeable runners, which I still use), but I didn't want to use glue.

Incidentally, modern Matrix RSX blades are also designed to have replaceable runners - though different styles aren't interchangeable, and the toe picks are fixed. (But RSX blades are remarkably expensive.)

I assume, based on your skills, that you skate a lot. Depending a lot on exactly how they are sharpened, blades should last through about 30 sharpenings. Even if you sharpen every 2 weeks, they would last about 60 weeks. If yours are only lasting 1/2 year, that is IMO unacceptable. But maybe that would be better, if you do those repairs.

I know it is impolite to ask your weight. But would you be willing to give it? I doubt you are all that heavy, considering the skills you are doing, but if you are unusually heavy - though remember that high level blades are also used by high level men, doing quad axels - that might explain breakage.

I can’t put the screw back since it fell out and got lost during a session, so that one’s gone for good. I’m about 108 pounds and skate around 2 hours a day. I usually sharpen my skates once a month, sometimes even less. Thanks for your feedback!

 

[FethryDuck]

Hi jennyskate,

... this is the (mechanical) engineer speaking


I see the loosening of the screws (which fixes the runner in the chassi) and the cracking of the sole plate as two different (and most likely unrelated) issues.

Whereas the loosening of the screws could be regarded as a nuisance (which may be fixed with Loctite as mentioned before) the breaking of the sole plate is the more severe issue.

Regardless of any storage conditions of your skates, especially given the comparatively short time of usage we are talking here (this is not an aircraft part which has been in use for 20 years in harsh conditions):

The repeated cases of the sudden breaking of the sole plate are simply unacceptable and should not have happened in any case. They could have caused a bad fall and injury.

As most likely root causes I see a manufacturig or material error. (Maybe there is a flawed batch that left the manufacturing line; Jackson may have altered the manufacturing process, the welding process, the aluminium supplier, whatever, they will most likely never let you know.)

Possible warping of the sole plate (Query mentioned this) may have contributed to weaken the material: Aluminium is less forgiving than steel in that respect (Query mentioned this as well before) and warping the sole plate may have induced micro cracks that later on made the whole plate crack. (But this you do not know and I would not mention it to Jackson.)
Also, one end of the crack seems to be in the arena of the weld seam. Most likely that the crack initiated there as metals to some degree "suffers" (I spare you a lengthy metallurgical explanation) in the welding zone.


Regarding getting (or at least trying to) your money back:
Don't waste your time with emailing or phoning Jackson's customer service but try the following instead:

Write a polite but factual letter on paper (attach photos) that describes the repeated (stress the exact number of cases; if the blades have serial numbers then provide this info as well) cracking and that this lack of quality is unacceptable for a reputable brand as Jackson and that it should be a matter of Upper Management to look into this.

State what you expext as remedy (money back or 4 sets of brand new blades including professional mounting by Jackson-approved dealer or whatever you deem would be acceptable to you.)

Send the letter to Jackson headquarters; you may just send it to their CEO. (It is unusual that CEOs just throw customer letters into the trash bin even if they may not answer themselves but forward the letter internally).

Sometimes headquarters only learn directly from the customers what's happening in their company's manufacturing line ...

And sometimes "Customer Support" sees their role more in fending off customer claims than in supporting customers.

Send the letter as registered mail. So that you have proof that you sent it and that Jackson received it.

You can mention the loosening of the screws as a side issue but focus the letter on the sole plate cracking. That's the really serious issue.

Good luck!!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I think you’re making a lot of assumptions without really knowing anything about the place or conditions we’re talking about. Our locker is specifically made for storing and drying skates, it’s dry, ventilated, and used by dozens of skaters and coaches who have no issues with their boots or blades. My boots are in perfect condition, and the only skaters who have had problems are those using Matrix blades, which clearly points to a blade issue rather than storage. Comparing our rink locker to random lockers around the world, or even to my home... places you’ve never been, just doesn’t make sense. Every environment is different. So no, there are no “extreme conditions” in our locker, you’re just guessing that there are, without knowing anything about it. As Query said, exposure to salt water or dirty water would be extreme conditions. Is that what you’ve seen around the world? Well, just for your info, we don’t store our skates in salt or dirty water.

Thanks for assuming everything that I know and was saying, which you've completely misinterpreted. I'm done. I know what I know about this sport being a pro and others have agreed with me here that also skated at a high level, but let's just agree to disagree and move on. Good luck figuring out your problem.

 

[jennyskate]

Hi jennyskate,

... this is the (mechanical) engineer speaking


I see the loosening of the screws (which fixes the runner in the chassi) and the cracking of the sole plate as two different (and most likely unrelated) issues.

Whereas the loosening of the screws could be regarded as a nuisance (which may be fixed with Loctite as mentioned before) the breaking of the sole plate is the more severe issue.

Regardless of any storage conditions of your skates, especially given the comparatively short time of usage we are talking here (this is not an aircraft part which has been in use for 20 years in harsh conditions):

The repeated cases of the sudden breaking of the sole plate are simply unacceptable and should not have happened in any case. They could have caused a bad fall and injury.

As most likely root causes I see a manufacturig or material error. (Maybe there is a flawed batch that left the manufacturing line; Jackson may have altered the manufacturing process, the welding process, the aluminium supplier, whatever, they will most likely never let you know.)

Possible warping of the sole plate (Query mentioned this) may have contributed to weaken the material: Aluminium is less forgiving than steel in that respect (Query mentioned this as well before) and warping the sole plate may have induced micro cracks that later on made the whole plate crack. (But this you do not know and I would not mention it to Jackson.)
Also, one end of the crack seems to be in the arena of the weld seam. Most likely that the crack initiated there as metals to some degree "suffers" (I spare you a lengthy metallurgical explanation) in the welding zone.


Regarding getting (or at least trying to) your money back:
Don't waste your time with emailing or phoning Jackson's customer service but try the following instead:

Write a polite but factual letter on paper (attach photos) that describes the repeated (stress the exact number of cases; if the blades have serial numbers then provide this info as well) cracking and that this lack of quality is unacceptable for a reputable brand as Jackson and that it should be a matter of Upper Management to look into this.

State what you expext as remedy (money back or 4 sets of brand new blades including professional mounting by Jackson-approved dealer or whatever you deem would be acceptable to you.)

Send the letter to Jackson headquarters; you may just send it to their CEO. (It is unusual that CEOs just throw customer letters into the trash bin even if they may not answer themselves but forward the letter internally).

Sometimes headquarters only learn directly from the customers what's happening in their company's manufacturing line ...

And sometimes "Customer Support" sees their role more in fending off customer claims than in supporting customers.

Send the letter as registered mail. So that you have proof that you sent it and that Jackson received it.

You can mention the loosening of the screws as a side issue but focus the letter on the sole plate cracking. That's the really serious issue.

Good luck!!

Thank you so much for your professional comment and for sharing your thoughts on this issue, I really appreciate it.

I still haven’t managed to get in touch with anyone from Jackson, so your suggestion to send a letter directly to their headquarters is a great idea. I’ll definitely follow your instructions and do that.

Thanks again! Really helpful advice!

 

[FethryDuck]

Hi Jennyskate,

just looked at again at the pictures you supplied:
I need to correct myself wrt one detail: It looks like there is no welding but the aluminium chassi machined from one block of aluminium.

(On the picture that showed the crack it looked like as if there was a weld seam but looking twice this does not seem to be the case).

But then there should be even less reason for the sole plate to break!

So my suggested approch towards Jackson stays the same.

Good luck again!

 

[Query]

BTW, I did not mean to imply that your storage lockers would expose the blades to salt. It was just meant as an example that shows that no steel is completely rust proof. I probably shouldn't have mentioned the salt issue.

I also did not mean to imply that your skate tech warps the blades when they mount them - it's just a possibility, which is more common than you might think. Some otherwise expert skate techs aren't aware there could be an issue. I think many skate techs warp the mounting plates by a mm or so, rather than shim so carefully as to create an absolutely perfect fit, so I doubt that much is a big issue. If you have watched the skate tech mount blades, how much do they warp them to fit? I.E., how far from laying flat on the outsoles are they before they add the mounting screws?

Your weight is not extreme, and does not explain breakage.

If you have trouble reaching Jackson (Canada - where the headquarters are) customer reps by phone, I think their headquarters are in the "Eastern" time zone (GMT - 4). To be safe, between 10:00 AM and 3:00 PM EST, on a weekday.) I have called them to reach a customer rep several times, and never had a problem doing so. Sometimes the customer rep I reach can't help, but they have always tried to be helpful. If you are respectful, reasonable and friendly, they probably will be too. I had a lot more trouble trying to reach anyone at HD Sports (MK and JW blades). Though I can't guarantee they will freely replace all your blades.

I don't know whether they would answer this question - but you could ask the Jackson rep (and a Blade Science rep too, and anyone else whose blades you are considering) whether they they would recommend a different tech near your area, who in their experience minimizes problems.

I think the Blade Science blades look interesting, and the idea of building in shock absorbers sounds fascinating. If you get their blades, it would be interesting to know how you like them.

 

[jennyskate]

So, I received my blades from Blade Science on Tuesday and had them mounted the next day. I’ve already spent four hours on the ice, and honestly, I’m really happy I made this decision.

I could do all my jumps and spins right away, the edge work feels very familiar, similar to my old blades, but I actually feel I can trust the edge more. For spins and jump take-offs, I notice an improvement, better centering, cleaner edges, and my jumps feel higher and more secure.

And then there are the landings… oh wow. I expected something, but I didn’t think the shock absorption would be this noticeable. The landings feel much softer and completely free of vibration. I could definitely feel less stress through my body and no back pain after my sessions.

Sharpening was no issue either. The same technician who mounted my Matrix blades mounted these as well, so I hope there won’t be any long-term problems, but I didn’t really have another option anyway.

Overall, very impressed so far!

 

[FethryDuck]

@jennyskate:
I would be interested how your journey continued.
Still happy with the Blade Science blades?
And, did you get round to write that complaint letter to Jackson? If so, what was their Reaktion?
Just curious.

 

[jennyskate]

@jennyskate:
I would be interested how your journey continued.
Still happy with the Blade Science blades?
And, did you get round to write that complaint letter to Jackson? If so, what was their Reaktion?
Just curious.

Of course, I’m happy to share my experience with blade science.

I absolutely love these blades, they feel much better than any blades I’ve used before. The landings are much softer, which was noticeable, especially right after switching from regular blades. Now I’m used to the lower impacts. I also let a few skaters try my skates, and they confirmed the same feeling and really liked the blades. Just for fun, I borrowed skates with regular blades again and the impacts felt so harsh, like getting hit with a baseball bat from below. It’s crazy to think we ever considered that normal I can say with confidence that my pain after jumping sessions has definitely decreased since switching to the shock absorbing blades.

Apart from landings, everything else feels fairly similar to a regular blade, but I do feel like I can trust the edges more. I’m not exactly sure why, maybe it’s the reduced vibrations, but the overall glide just feels smoother. I was initially worried about the toe pick, but it actually feels better than what I was used to before. Again, I feel like I can trust it more.

The only downside is the higher price, it was quite a stretch for me, but the quality is incomparable to matrix blades. Plus, they actually absorb impact and have replaceable parts, so I don’t have to buy a full set every time. In the end, it makes sense and feels justified.

Still no response from Jackson, I’ve already given up on that. Honestly, I could have saved both money and my body if I had switched to blade science earlier. well well