Repeating Programs

[Tinymavy15]

Michelle did the same thing with East of Eden, which she had used as a youngster and for one of her exh's after she went senior....I noticed how the judges didn't seem to mark her as high as they used to with that, which is maybe why she switched back to Rach for SLC?

Well as much as I liked East of Eden, it wasn't as difficult a program as Rach, so that might make the difference for the judges. But I sort of like it when a skater uses a piece of music more than once... it becomes a signature... and you know that they must really enjoy and understand that music.

 

[steyn]

ITA. I wouldn't mind seeing a great program again the following season. The one program I would love to see again is YuNa Kim's The Lark Ascending, but I don't she will skate the program again. She has made comments that she disliked skating the program because it was so difficult and even her arms were tired and sore by end of the program. It would be lovely to see healthier & more mature skater do a perfect LP to The Lark Ascending.

Well, I know Yu-Na said that way in an informal interview after the Worlds but I think it is probably because she suffered from lots of injuries in 2006/2007 season. Literally, she had no time to build her stamina at all in that season. I believe if she had skated the Lark Ascending this season (before she got injured again), she could have skated a clean program like Miss Saigon.

 

[Kinga]

Those fans looking for what is presumed artistry should wait for the Exhibitions.

Joe

Is it what you really think? Do you wait for exhibition to see artistry and the competition is to see technical elements only?? I read some of your posts and I recall that you were astonished by artistry of Jeremy Abott, for example. And you also wrote somewhere that Lambiel is your favourite. I bet that not because of his quad!
I find most of exhibition programes artistically empty and boring compared with good competition performances.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Is it what you really think? Do you wait for exhibition to see artistry and the competition is to see technical elements only?? I read some of your posts and I recall that you were astonished by artistry of Jeremy Abott, for example. And you also wrote somewhere that Lambiel is your favourite. I bet that not because of his quad!
I find most of exhibition programes artistically empty and boring compared with good competition performances.

If we had a competition for Exhibitions, they would become better. I don't wait for them as they are now. I leave for home and give my ticket to some poor high school kid.

Lambiel is feeling his age ,and his skating in general is slipping but his Quads (note the plural) in Moscow and Calgary were exemplary. Since I am also a floor dance affectionado, I list on my very short list: Lambiel, Curry and Browning of skaters who have the ART.

I was not interested in Abbot for quite some time, but in Gotenborg, I saw the rhythm he has hidden before. He's on my list of potential Artistic skaters (and he has a quad too).

Joe

 

[blue dog]

If we had a competition for Exhibitions, they would become better. I don't wait for them as they are now. I leave for home and give my ticket to some poor high school kid.

Lambiel is feeling his age ,and his skating in general is slipping but his Quads (note the plural) in Moscow and Calgary were exemplary. Since I am also a floor dance affectionado, I list on my very short list: Lambiel, Curry and Browning of skaters who have the ART.

I was not interested in Abbot for quite some time, but in Gotenborg, I saw the rhythm he has hidden before. He's on my list of potential Artistic skaters (and he has a quad too).

Joe

But a competition for exhibitions would mean many skaters would repeat programs for more than five years--which would (as we've seen in this discussion) not make fans of many people. I remember in the pro ranks, when we were saturated with professional competitions, Scott Hamilton had skated that Rhapsodie Hongroise 2 for four years--sure, Scott is one of the best showmen out there, but there came a time when it got old for some people (not for me--I like the fact that even Scott Hamilton can still grow with a program).

 

[escaflowne9282]

I generally don't like to see a program repeated unless it's truly a masterpiece, shows a different perspective, shows evolution within a skater's skating, and above all remains competitive with newer programs that are being done.

 

[Tonichelle]

But a competition for exhibitions would mean many skaters would repeat programs for more than five years--which would (as we've seen in this discussion) not make fans of many people. I remember in the pro ranks, when we were saturated with professional competitions, Scott Hamilton had skated that Rhapsodie Hongroise 2 for four years--sure, Scott is one of the best showmen out there, but there came a time when it got old for some people (not for me--I like the fact that even Scott Hamilton can still grow with a program).

Well, with Scott and most pros - they were doing a whole lot more than training to compete... and not all exhibition programs fit the pro competition criteria

Kurt used Nyah in his last World Pro competition (I think it was the World pro) as his 'artistic program' and even then he had to add jumps (which totally took away from the program IMHO)

so between the saturation of skating shows/comps for pros in the mid 90s any program got old fast, and when you didn't have time to put together another one then it just got worse...

Scott was also a pinch hitter many times in the competitions, he'd come in at the last minute when anotehr US skater would get sick or injured. (I think that was just when it was a CBS event though lol)

 

[attyfan]

Michelle did the same thing with East of Eden, which she had used as a youngster and for one of her exh's after she went senior....I noticed how the judges didn't seem to mark her as high as they used to with that, which is maybe why she switched back to Rach for SLC?

IIRC, Michelle's different uses of EOE were separated by at least a year -- and were different uses. I don't think this affected her marks -- she used "Red Violin" as an exhibition (at least, after '99 Worlds) and her marks for that same music as a FS were good enough to get her a 3rd World gold. IIRC, it was only her "Feeling Begins" SP that was repeated consecutively. There is a difference (IMO) in re-using music for different purposes (exhibition, FS) than simply repeating a program -- the first is much more interesting to watch.

 

[Ladskater]

I am of two minds about this topic. On one hand I don't mind seeing a program repeated if it was a really great program to start with and if the skater has matured more to understand the music; on the other hand I do enjoy seeing skaters create new material for the new season. I don't know when I really noticed that skaters were revisiting old programs because in the early years of figure skating they did not do that. Every year a skater like Karen Magnussen would have a new program, but then again they did not have to compete in as many competitions in her day. Usually it was Nationals, North American and Wolrd Championships and of course the Olympics. Of course they also had to work on their figures day and night to perfect them.

I think with all the difficult jump combinations and footwork that is now required sometimes it does take a skater a couple of years to really get a program to perfection under his/her belt.

Good question!!

 

[redhotcoach]

With the changes pending on the ISU Congress - last year's programs will all have to be re-jigged anyhow...somehow making them new again!

No spiral sequence in Jr ladies will take a huge time chunk out of last year's long program, and removing a step sequence from Jr Men as well. Seniors are dropping a spin in the long program, which with all the variations to get the levels now - takes up a chunk of time as well.

Will be interesting to see how the choreographers rework things!

 

[Bennett]

I think it really nice when the skater revises the program. For example, Jeff has changed his Ararat a lot from the last year. I might have liked his previous one even better, but still like the new one as well that gives me a different impression.

On the other hand, I don't appreciate it very much when the skater uses very similar things in different programs, e.g., the exact or very similar combination spins, spirals, and footworks. This is another version of "repeating the program."
In the case of Morosov programs, for instance, Shizuka could adjust to new SP and LP that she changed at the last minute so quickly when she competed in Olympics. She said that the contents were basically the same although the music was different. In her SP and LP, the spiral sequences were exactly the same, which is also often the case in Morosov programs. In her case, it fortunately worked very well because she was such a complete skater already with amazing overall skating skills. She was also reusing the old/same music in both programs (She reused the 2004 music in LP and switched her original LP music to SP). So she didn't give the audience any shallow impression that a cookie-cutter program could have given. But I generally appreciate programs in which each movement has some meanings and not so much ready-made.

 

[Pikachuusb]

For the most part I am not a fan of repeating programs year after year. I like to see new programs each year. There have been some exceptions in the past where I like seeing the programs from previous seasons. Whether it be a reworked program, a skater was out most of the previous season so we really didnt get to see/enjoy it, or I just absolutely loved the program and hoped to see it more.

 

[chuckm]

Bringing back an old program from a couple of seasons back is not objectionable and may sometimes be refreshing. I just don't like seeing the same program (I'm taking free skates here, not SPs) repeated two seasons in a row. And that is true for skaters from any federation.

 

[Tonichelle]

I would think it's easier to come up with a new SP as it's not as long a program... so why take the 'easy' way out and repeat that one two and three years and work on a new LP every year? *shrugs*

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Sasha Cohen used Roti's R&J often as an exhibition and then she used it twice commpetitively I must say it had been rehearsed often enough for her Olys.

Joe

 

[jennylovskt]

Bringing back an old program from a couple of seasons back is not objectionable and may sometimes be refreshing. I just don't like seeing the same program (I'm taking free skates here, not SPs) repeated two seasons in a row. And that is true for skaters from any federation.

What's the difference between repeating SP and repeating LP?:scratch: I think repeating SP is as boring as repeating LP if one don't like that program.

 

[Tonichelle]

Sasha Cohen used Roti's R&J often as an exhibition and then she used it twice commpetitively I must say it had been rehearsed often enough for her Olys.

Joe

different choreography between the exhibition and her competitive one... IIRC the music cuts weren't even the same (were they even teh same composer?)

 

[mycelticblessing]

Sasha Cohen used Roti's R&J often as an exhibition and then she used it twice commpetitively I must say it had been rehearsed often enough for her Olys.

Joe

She used it competively before the Olympics?