Now that the Grand Prix season is over for the American Women ( with the exception of Alissa who has made the final ) what are your opinions on how the American women performed ? Who do you think is on the right track for nationals and possibly could earn a spot on the world team ? Out of the Americans who do you think has the best programs ? What do you think needs to be changed or improved before nationals ?
Review of the American Women Thus Far..
- Thread starter Jtsmith12
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
and :disapp:
I don't find Ashley any more reliable than Mirai. At least Mirai gets good PCS scores when she skates well, but even at her best, Ashley's PCS scores are way below the top ladies because she doesn't impress the judges.
The US junior ladies are more impressive than the senior ladies.
The US junior ladies are more impressive than the senior ladies.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I think that Ashley is underscored, even when she skates clean. Part of getting good scores is having a good international reputation and maybe a lot of judges consider her a second tier American skater, but to me she is as good as anyone except Alyssa. I am really hoping she can finally put it together at Nationals this season.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
Don't forget 17 year old Gracie Gold. She only competed at one junior grand prix event, but managed to win it with the second highest total score in this season's ladies Junior Grand Prix circuit. Watch her short and her long programs. Reasons to be excited about her:
1) She has sound basics, skating with great speed and flow across the ice.
2) She has beautiful, true edges on both the triple lutz and the triple flip (watch the entrance to the 3flip in her long, it's off the hizzle).
3) She can attach a fully rotated triple toe at the end of any jump, it seems. If you look at the above videos, you'll see she does a 3flip/3toe in the short, then a 3lutz/3toe and a 2axel/3toe in the long, all cleanly done.
4) She seems to be done with her growth spurt already, so no need to fear the puberty monster. She's performing better than she ever has at a relatively tall 5 foot 4.
Jump-wise, she has a formidable arsenal to rack up points. She has enough flexibility and control to get high levels on her spins. Her footwork looks good, too. She is all set in her TES. It remains to be seen whether Estonia was a fluke, and whether she can keep her consistency up in further competitions. Also, she has some serious deficiencies in her performance ability and musicality, although that might be due to the really awful programs she's been given. She's by no means, er, ungraceful. With a better choreographer and some fair bit of coaching on how to perform, she can ramp up all of her PCS, too.
1) She has sound basics, skating with great speed and flow across the ice.
2) She has beautiful, true edges on both the triple lutz and the triple flip (watch the entrance to the 3flip in her long, it's off the hizzle).
3) She can attach a fully rotated triple toe at the end of any jump, it seems. If you look at the above videos, you'll see she does a 3flip/3toe in the short, then a 3lutz/3toe and a 2axel/3toe in the long, all cleanly done.
4) She seems to be done with her growth spurt already, so no need to fear the puberty monster. She's performing better than she ever has at a relatively tall 5 foot 4.
Jump-wise, she has a formidable arsenal to rack up points. She has enough flexibility and control to get high levels on her spins. Her footwork looks good, too. She is all set in her TES. It remains to be seen whether Estonia was a fluke, and whether she can keep her consistency up in further competitions. Also, she has some serious deficiencies in her performance ability and musicality, although that might be due to the really awful programs she's been given. She's by no means, er, ungraceful. With a better choreographer and some fair bit of coaching on how to perform, she can ramp up all of her PCS, too.
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- Joined
- Feb 1, 2007
Yes, please get her to a ballet class or something -- hands and arms -- awful! Jumps good, though. But please work on the performance nuances -- they make all the difference.
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2011
So far she's not a fluke. Just watched her performance at the Sectionals. She landed 3f+3t, 3lutz+3t, 2a+3t again! The only mistake in both programs was a silly fall on a 2a.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
OMG, Gracie rises! If she can keep this up, jump-wise, she has one of the strongest repertoires of any lady competing right now, junior or senior. She may be one of the greatest hopes for US ladies skating's future.
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2011
Just curious, is that your pic? It's scary. lol.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
Gracie just turned 16. She struggled with some growth issues last year which caused her to not make Nationals in Juniors and the decision was made for her to stay in Juniors this year.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2009
For me, I'm optimistic for Caroline Zhang and Joelle Forte to do well at national, I think that they make a great showing at skate america 
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
No, my avatar is ice dancer Madison Chock, who makes, by far, the best faces in ice dancing right now. Every move is positively orgasmic!
Oops, why did I think she's 17? I thought I read it on her wiki entry, but it says 16 there. My bad! Knowing she's 16 only increases my optimism, as she has more years to improve and more opportunities to make the best of.
Here are the scores of contending ladies:
1. Alissa CZISNY 179.15 (TEB); 177.48 (SA);
2. Mirai NAGASU 173.22 (COC); 167.46 (Nebelhorn); 151.72 (SC)
3. Ashley WAGNER 165.65 (NHK); 165.48 (SC);
4* Samantha CESARIO 153.84 (JGP Baltic Cup); 145.87 (Eastern Sectionals, domestic)
5. Christina Gao 152.48 (COC); 117.77 (CoR);
6. Agnes ZAWADZKI, 149.38 (CoR); 138.19 (NHK)
7. Rachael Flatt, 147.63 (CoR); 128.22 (SC)
8. Caroline ZHANG 140.70 (SA); 160.20 (PS)
9. Joelle Forte 139.70 (SA);
Based on the scores above, probably the top three ladies will be among Alissa, Mirai, and Ashley of any order, since none of them are known for consistent performances. I give Alissa the slight edge for the #1 position and the toss-up between Mirai and Ashley for the silver.
Interestingly, only two other ladies who scored +170s are either junior (Gracie Gold), or too young to be selected for worlds even though she competed for the senior sectionals the last weekend (Leah Keiser).
Gracie GOLD 172.69 (JGP Tullin Cup); 174.90 (MS) – Jr divisions
Leah Keiser 172.22 (PS); - Sr., but too young for worlds.
1. Alissa CZISNY 179.15 (TEB); 177.48 (SA);
2. Mirai NAGASU 173.22 (COC); 167.46 (Nebelhorn); 151.72 (SC)
3. Ashley WAGNER 165.65 (NHK); 165.48 (SC);
4* Samantha CESARIO 153.84 (JGP Baltic Cup); 145.87 (Eastern Sectionals, domestic)
5. Christina Gao 152.48 (COC); 117.77 (CoR);
6. Agnes ZAWADZKI, 149.38 (CoR); 138.19 (NHK)
7. Rachael Flatt, 147.63 (CoR); 128.22 (SC)
8. Caroline ZHANG 140.70 (SA); 160.20 (PS)
9. Joelle Forte 139.70 (SA);
Based on the scores above, probably the top three ladies will be among Alissa, Mirai, and Ashley of any order, since none of them are known for consistent performances. I give Alissa the slight edge for the #1 position and the toss-up between Mirai and Ashley for the silver.
Interestingly, only two other ladies who scored +170s are either junior (Gracie Gold), or too young to be selected for worlds even though she competed for the senior sectionals the last weekend (Leah Keiser).
Gracie GOLD 172.69 (JGP Tullin Cup); 174.90 (MS) – Jr divisions
Leah Keiser 172.22 (PS); - Sr., but too young for worlds.
Yeah very little movement at the top except for Rachel continuing to plummet in the eyes of international judges for whatever reason. No noobs coming up behind like everyone keeps expecting to happen. Alissa pretty much already has the title and 2nd and 3rd are obvious with only the order to be determined at the competition.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
Thoughts....
Alissa Czisny: Upped her technical game this season. Definitely wants it. Will likely go out with her third National title.
Ashley Wagner: Major changes during the off-season that paid off with solid results. The judges won't go out of their way to be kind to her, so she needs to bring it. I get the feeling she will.
Mirai Nagasu: The most naturally talented, but her work ethic is not good. Has the least acclaimed programs of the three. I have to admit I don't think her coaching situation is desirable; that - combined with the work ethic issues and the pressure of Nationals, I think she'll end up off the World team.
Agnes Zawadski: Leaving Tom Z. was the first step. Santee (and Krall?) don't seem the best fit for her yet, but she's still got loads of potential. A major spoiler.
Rachel Flatt: Definitely a disappointing start. I'm very curious about her at Nationals. I think she'll actually do better than most are projecting, but whether or not that means anything is up in the air.
Alissa Czisny: Upped her technical game this season. Definitely wants it. Will likely go out with her third National title.
Ashley Wagner: Major changes during the off-season that paid off with solid results. The judges won't go out of their way to be kind to her, so she needs to bring it. I get the feeling she will.
Mirai Nagasu: The most naturally talented, but her work ethic is not good. Has the least acclaimed programs of the three. I have to admit I don't think her coaching situation is desirable; that - combined with the work ethic issues and the pressure of Nationals, I think she'll end up off the World team.
Agnes Zawadski: Leaving Tom Z. was the first step. Santee (and Krall?) don't seem the best fit for her yet, but she's still got loads of potential. A major spoiler.
Rachel Flatt: Definitely a disappointing start. I'm very curious about her at Nationals. I think she'll actually do better than most are projecting, but whether or not that means anything is up in the air.
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