Russian coach: The US will help us win team gold and pairs

[phaeljones]

I just caught up with this thread (which scares me and saddens me, btw), but this point caught my eye. Wait, what? Really? This really is a thing that happened? But other skaters from other countries (and Russian skaters) were not part of this random drug testing? What? How could they get away with something like that? It does not compute.

Yes it is true. It is so obviously an act of intimidation done in a manner to physically and mentally violate the athletes of a particular sport from a particular nation. Sadly, in the context, taken in conjunction with the scoring, it totally computes. These games are a propaganda farce.

 

[dorispulaski]

I took Borscht Belt to reference not so much an Eastern European food (although that might be area appropriate) as an inference that the whole thing is a stand up comedian' s joke, as the Borscht Belt in upstate New York (think the resort in Dirty Dancing") is known these days in the US more for its comedic legacy than its cuisine.

 

[Buttercup]

I took Borscht Belt to reference not so much an Eastern European food (although that might be area appropriate) as an inference that the whole thing is a stand up comedian' s joke, as the Borscht Belt in upstate New York (think the resort in Dirty Dancing") is known these days in the US more for its comedic legacy than its cuisine.

Which is why I don't understand this choice in relation to Sochi. In past European events, the updates were called Hungarian Goulash (2014 Euros), Parisian ratatouille (2013 TEB - ratatouille is more south of France, I think, but it's still a reasonable reference), and Soup du jour (2012 Worlds).

IN also once reported on P/B withdrawing from an event due to injury under the headline "French toast" and used "Ho-hum" for an article about one of V/M's wins. It is also affiliated with the USFSA, so for an IN reporter to criticize a L'Equipe one for slanted coverage strikes me as kind of iffy.

 

[vegarin]

Yes it is true. It is so obviously an act of intimidation done in a manner to physically and mentally violate the athletes of a particular sport from a particular nation. Sadly, in the context, taken in conjunction with the scoring, it totally computes. These games are a propaganda farce.

Are you kidding me. This is revolting. How could it be possibly allowed?

 

[Mathman]

I think it's true! Look how Julia Lipnitskia and Marissa Castelli are winking at each other in this podium shot from the Ice Network article. (As we can see from the picture, they didn't let Jeremy Abbott in on it, which explains a lot.)

http://www.icenetwork.com/assets/images/5/3/2/67620532/cuts/russia_usa_4j98j4io_slhfui9a.jpg

Seriously, though, I can see why the U.S. Figure Skating Association is mad. All out of the blue they find themselves charged in the newspapers with high crimes and misdemeanors by an anonymous accuser who offers no details or evidentiary support for any such claims. No wonder they are choking on their borsht.

 

[evangeline]

Yes it is true. It is so obviously an act of intimidation done in a manner to physically and mentally violate the athletes of a particular sport from a particular nation. Sadly, in the context, taken in conjunction with the scoring, it totally computes. These games are a propaganda farce.

Are you sure about this? Drug testing during the Olympics is administered by the World Anti-Doping Authority (WADA), an international agency seated in Switzerland and headquartered in Canada (http://www.wada-ama.org/en/about-wada/). Why would WADA target Canadians?

Moreover, according to this article about a Czech snowboarder being tested after her crash (http://blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2014/02/10/helmet-crash-snowboarder-stopped-for-drug-testing/), the IOC rules say that any athlete can be tested for up to an hour before competing.

Sorry, I just don't see any nefarious drug test-related conspiracy here at all......

 

[davogt]

Frankly the testing conspiracy seems even wonkier than the Russian-American deal -- and I only defended an investigation into that one because the judging system's reputation is fragile enough as it is, not because I seriously think it was a justified allegation.

In contrast, the reputation of the anti-doping system, at least as far as I know, is pretty solid.

 

[vegarin]

I can't verify whether it's true or not (who knows?), but a number of Canadian newspapers had an article on it, with varying levels of hmm, this seems odd and possible outage. One that seems to be at least a bit more neutral is the article from The Globe and Mail (one of the two largest national newspapers in Canada).

That may give you some sense of how it's viewed in Canada, though the comment sections are not necessarily representation of anything and not to be believed.

 

[Ven]

D/W and V/M are pretty close again in the SD, but the scores were not. Maybe there is something to this after all...

Seems like the judging at these Olympics has been the most corrupt I've ever seen.

 

[Mathman]

^ True. With fair judging it would heve been I&K first and Chock and Bates second in the short dance just now. :yes:

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Seems like the judging at these Olympics has been the most corrupt I've ever seen.

The scores are absolutely a farce, but the placements are pretty correct (the men's team FS being an obvious exception).

The Russians are getting massive scores though and I wouldn't be surprised if we see more Cup of Russia ridiculousness.

 

[fridakalo]

Absolutely..@TheRobinCousins said on BBC "Should have been more to Tessa and Scott SD score. I'll put it out there THAT should have been more."
Susanna Rahkamo & Petri Kokko , The founders of the finnstep also said :

Petri Kokko ‏@coccco
I don't understand the judging in #icedancing. @Virtue_Moir should be leading in my honest opinion. #finnstep #Sochi2014

Petri Kokko ‏@coccco
Hope @Virtue_Moir wins. Americans timing off in the #finnstep and restrained even otherwise.

Susanna Rahkamo ‏@ssusu
#TessaandScott the best for me. They dance for each other.


Laura Lepistö ‏@LauraLepisto
@coccco that's why I don't want to commentate ice dancing for tv. Too many things that cannot be explained. #Sochi2014

 

[Mrs. P]

Absolutely..@TheRobinCousins said on BBC "Should have been more to Tessa and Scott SD score. I'll put it out there THAT should have been more."
Susanna Rahkamo & Petri Kokko , The founders of the finnstep also said :

Petri Kokko ‏@coccco
I don't understand the judging in #icedancing. @Virtue_Moir should be leading in my honest opinion. #finnstep #Sochi2014

Petri Kokko ‏@coccco
Hope @Virtue_Moir wins. Americans timing off in the #finnstep and restrained even otherwise.

Susanna Rahkamo ‏@ssusu
#TessaandScott the best for me. They dance for each other.


Laura Lepistö ‏@LauraLepisto
@coccco that's why I don't want to commentate ice dancing for tv. Too many things that cannot be explained. #Sochi2014

Robin Cousins also said that Meryl and Charlie deserved their win and that while he's usually in the V/M camp that D/W did great today. Saying that is not mutually exclusive to saying that V/M should have scored higher. Sue, the tennis player who also commented, said that she felt that it came down to personal preference and that the two styles aren't perfectly comparable.

Also Laura Lepisto tweeted this:
Just can't realize how someone can make it look so effortless. Meryl&Charlie, #sigh !! #Sochi2014

The comments I'm seeing is that V/M should have scored more, not that that D/W were overscored.

 

[Ven]

Yes, this thread seems much more credible now. Especially since NBC (with its connections to USFS) seemed to be pushing an agenda all week.

With the scoring biases that were racked up across the competitions, it seems the backroom politics had already decided beforehand the winners if they just didn't f*** up bad enough.

I think it's clear by the scores that if Julia had not fallen, both her and Adelina would have been 1-2, Kim third, and Caro nothing.

 

[pangtongfan]

Yes, this thread seems much more credible now. Especially since NBC (with its connections to USFS) seemed to be pushing an agenda all week.

Yes that would explain the NBC's muted reaction to the ladies results compared to the outrage of every other network around the world. They benefited from this whole fix as well. D&W might have been able to win anyway, but sure nice to have it in the bag knowing you dont even need to skate for it.

 

[Ven]

Yes that would explain the NBC's muted reaction to the ladies results compared to the outrage of every other network around the world. They benefited from this whole fix as well. D&W might have been able to win anyway, but sure nice to have it in the bag knowing you dont even need to skate for it.

I don't think anyone would argue with most of the results, except for ladies, maybe ice dance to an extent. But the margins suggested that the result was already decided even in those events.

 

[pangtongfan]

I don't think anyone would argue with most of the results, except for ladies, maybe ice dance to an extent. But the margins suggested that the result was already decided even in those events.

That is the thing. The other results were probably right in the end (ice dance is debated somewhat as you said). However the scores and margins for the rumored "fixed" results are telling, and to end up with this final result even if ladies wasnt mentioned specifically only makes all the previous ones seem that much more obvious.

It was obvious in the pairs that V&T could have fallen three times in their LP and won overall over a clean S&S with a throw triple axel. It was obvious in the Team Event every benefit of doubt went to Russia and Plushenko was already receiving some crazy scores. The fixed Olympic figure skating event was already underway and never let up, only to conclude with a bang all will remember.

 

[Ven]

That is the thing. The other results were probably right in the end (ice dance is debated somewhat as you said). However the scores and margins for the rumored "fixed" results are telling, and to end up with this final result even if ladies wasnt mentioned specifically only makes all the previous ones seem that much more obvious.

It was obvious in the pairs that V&T could have fallen three times in their LP and won overall over a clean S&S with a throw triple axel. It was obvious in the Team Event every benefit of doubt went to Russia and Plushenko was already receiving some crazy scores. The fixed Olympic figure skating event was already underway and never let up, only to conclude with a bang all will remember.

Yes. It seems in hindsight now that V/T could have made mistakes, S/S could have gone clean, and V/T would have still won.

D/W could have room for mistakes, V/M could have gone clean, and D/W would have still won.

Men...neither Russians or U.S. had any competitors.

Ladies...the scoring indicates that a clean Adelina and Julia would have gone 1-2 no matter what. Look at how ridiculously high Julia's scores were despite many mistakes. Only the mistakes were so much even the cheating could not help her.

You combine the fact that NBC and Russian media are the only ones who seem to be OK with the results ... it definitely seems very suspect. NBC seemed to have a clear agenda throughout.

 

[cptnhastings]

In what universe would NBC prefer the Russians to win over Gracie Gold? Why would the US give Russia the team gold, the ladies gold and the pairs gold to supposedly secure an ice dancing gold for a team that hadn't lost to anyone in 2 years? This is plainly ridiculous. It's not a conspiracy. The judges were just overly influenced by audience reactions. Occam's razor.

 

[Ven]

In what universe would NBC prefer the Russians to win over Gracie Gold? Why would the US give Russia the team gold, the ladies gold and the pairs gold to supposedly secure an ice dancing gold for a team that hadn't lost to anyone in 2 years? This is plainly ridiculous. It's not a conspiracy. The judges were just overly influenced by audience reactions. Occam's razor.

The French report said there was a tradeoff for support of D/W, and Gracie was way overscored as well. She scored 136 falling on her ***...did you see that?