Russian Ladies Team for EC 2015: facts, speculations and drama

[Snow63]

I want to start civilized discussion about who's going to make the team for Euros. Or who should be in the team. Are they same skaters or maybe different?

I'll remind you how the DRAMA around 3rd spot on Russian Ladies Team for EC 2014 started:

1. There is clear rule of RusFed that only those skaters who wins 1st and 2nd place at Nationals have guaranteed spots in the National team for International ISU competitions. The Federation decides who's gonna be 3rd member of the National team, they can and often choose skaters who placed lower than 3rd place at Nationals OR isn't even participated.

2. Adelina Sotnikova (Olympic Champion of Ladies Solo Figure Skating event) said in one of her last interview that she wants to recover 'till Euros, and wants to skate at Euros. But in fact she's skipping Nationals. Source: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20141220/795870750.html

3. Then vice-president of Russia's FS Federation Alexandr Lakernik says that he thinks it's very possible for Sotnikova to go to Euros without participation at Nationals instead of Bronze medalist of Nationals. He gives an example that if Lipnitskaia will be 3rd than it will mean that she is 'not so well prepared'. And Sotnikova has an advantage of beign Olympic Champion in this case, so it's very possible that she will skate at Euros. He also said it's too soon to say anything concrete, and decision will be made on 12th of January. Source: http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/767406

4. Then Eteri Tutberidze (Yulia Liplitskaia's coach) gives furious interview where she makes some controversial statements.
- Eteri said that these kind of statements (Lakernik's) are 'unacceptable' before Nationals.
- She doesn't understand why any of our four girls who competed at GPF 2014, do not deserve her place at Euros, if they will medal at Nationals. Liza? Elena? Yulia?
- She said Yulia has more titles and medals out of all currently skating russian girls (Silver GPF medalist, acting Euros champion, silver Worlds medalist, Olympic champion), and if someone should be competing at Euros without participation at National, it's her.
- And she thinks it would be okay to send Sotnikova to Euros this year if she would have injured her leg during the season after a couple of starts, but she is angry that they're considering sending Adelina to the Euros without her taking part in a single competition.
Source: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20141221/796196465.html

5. Then the President of Russia's FS Federation Alexandr Gorshkov says that there's no such decision haven't been made, but Sotnikova may be included in the National team for Euros. Source: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20141222/796258211.html

6. Tatiana Tarasova (Consultant of Russian Figure Skating team) thinks that Sotnikova 100% deserve the right to skate at Euros. And she demands to stop the hounding of Sotnikova. Source: http://itar-tass.com/sport/1664239 and http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/767688

7. And finally Anna Tsareva (Anna Pogorilaya's coach) said that she thinks Olympic Champions deserve respect, and in this case the right to go to Euros without participating at Nationals. And she's not angry about the talk. She now sees that her and Anna Pogorilaya's goal at Nationals is not to be 3rd, but make everything to be a National Champion. Source: http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-skating/1025897676.html

ADDED 22.12.2014
8. Honorable President of the Federation Valentin Piseev said in his latest interview that RusFed didn't give any guarantees to Sotnikova. If she wants to go to Euros she should take part in at least one competition before Euros. The only competition before Euros is in Poland. The decision will be made only if she will skate good.
Source: http://www.gazeta.ru/sport/news/2014/12/22/n_6769477.shtml

9. Yulia Lipnitskaia said that it's not an easy season for her, but she'll do her best at Nationals to take a spot in National team. She basically said, her goal is to skate, and specialists will decide who should be in the team. And even if she will not be there, it's not the end of the world, she still will have a chance to go to Worlds. She's just sixteen, it's to soon for her to retire
She also said that the competition will not be easy, many Russian girls in an amazing shape this season. So only the best will go to Euros.
Source: http://itar-tass.com/sport/1665625

ADDED 23.12.2014
10. Ilya Averbukh gave his opinion. Highlights:
- journalist said in one of the question that there will be 'special skate' for Sotnikova, Averbukh hasn't corrected her (maybe he doesn't know for sure and it's fake).
- he thinks we should wish luck to Sotnikova, she needs our maximal support now. He also thinks that last season was very difficult to her, and maybe she should not push herself too hard now. Maybe she just needs to calmly prepare for the Worlds.
- he stated that if she will be ready for the Worlds, she should be in the Nationals team, since she's Russia's first Olympic Champion in Ladies FS event.
- he also replied to question about Sotnikova's possible successful skate in front of the Federation that just one skate is not the same as official competition...
- Averbukh thinks that Radionova and Tukhtamysheva are favourites, but he also believes in Lipnitskaia. He thinks she will overcome this hard period for her.
Source: http://www.sovsport.ru/gazeta/article-item/767927

ADDED 24.12.2014
11. Nina Moser (Volosozhar/Trankov's coach) gave her opinion about the whole drama: (LATER REFUTED BY MOSER AND VOLOSOZHAR)
"I do not want to comment the case when the coach is trying to create a conflict showing her weakness and the lack of professionalism. I feel negative towards stuff like that. One has to go and prove at the rink. No one prevented Lipnitskaia from winning the Olympics if she is so great. This whole conflict began then."
Source: http://izvestia.ru/news/581222

ADDED 25.12.2014
12. Nina Moser (Volosozhar/Trankov's coach) said that her words in press are fake. She said she's furious, and she never said anything about selection process to the Ladies National Team, and about Yulia herself.
Source: http://itar-tass.com/sport/1670671

Tatiana Volosozhar (Russian Pair skater) confirmed Moser's words through her Instagram account. She said that it was 'slander and provocation' by Russian newspaper 'Izvestia', or one of its employees. Her post in Instagram was written in rather aggressive manner.
Source: http://instagram.com/p/xABCp8D_iY/

13. Aleksandr Gorshkov (President of the Federation) said that the final list of Russian participants of the European Championship will be announced in mid-January, around 16th of Junuary.
Source: http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20141224/796531711.html
--------------------------------------------------------

So what do you guys think? I personally think that in this strong pool of skaters that Russia have, there is no sense to replace bronze medalist with someone other. Because it's pretty clear that even 3rd Russian lady still can EASILY win Euros and even Worlds. I'm deeply respect Adelina and I have nothing againts that qualification rule to National team, but I don't think it's rational to use it in THIS discipline. The competition is too strong.

P.S. Please, have respect for coaches, skaters and each other, and keep it cute
Sorry if I made any mistakes, my English pretty much suck

 

[Sophie-Anna]

I think that any of the medalist can be champion at Europeans or Wolrds. Russia has many many strong girls and even the skater, who will stay at home could have a chance. I don't think Sotnikova should go without any int. competition this season. Maybe if Lipnitskaia will be 3rd she could be replaced(but I don't wish it to her personally by someone else(not by Sotnikova she didn't competed yet and didn't train really much), but for example when Tuktamysheva will be 3rd they can't do that. After horrible last season she managed to get back, skated very strong this season(especially GPF)and I think she deserves her place at Euros at the moment.
About Tarasova's statement: of course she is defending Adelina. Adelina skates at CSKA, where she also works with Tarasova and as we know, TT always do some backstage politics in the case of her students.
About Tsareva's statement: Maybe it could be true, but...My personal problem is I think Adelina deserved silver at Sochi. Not the gold. Maybe someone else feels it different way and really thinks she should be first. Ok then, I'm just saying my opinion.

 

[Yamita]

Snow. Thank you for a great summary which puts things into perspective.

 

[Sophie-Anna]

And I forgot: If Adelina deserves to go as the olympic champion without nationals and any competition, then Julia deserves it as well. Adelina had two great programs in singles competition. Julia had two great programs in team competition and the winning of the Russian team was mostly made by her. I mean V/T and S/K skated one programs, I/K and B/S the same. Plushenko skated 2 but that wasn't that great. Julia skated 2 amazing clean programs. She is the same olympic champion as Adelina.

 

[Snow63]

And I forgot: If Adelina deserves to go as the olympic champion without nationals and any competition, then Julia deserves it as well. Adelina had two great programs in singles competition. Julia had two great programs in team competition and the winning of the Russian team was mostly made by her. I mean V/T and S/K skated one programs, I/K and B/S the same. Plushenko skated 2 but that wasn't that great. Julia skated 2 amazing clean programs. She is the same olympic champion as Adelina.

According to Lakernik 'it's different'. Although I remember perfectly well how he and Gorshkov said that these Gold Medals (Sotnikova's and Lipnitskaia's) are equal. It was right after Sochi.

 

[MalAssada]

I wonder if Tsareva will still agree with this if Pogorilaya comes in 3rd. Eteri was, of course, defending her skater, and I think there is quite a chance of Yulia placing 3rd considering her LPs this season.

Honestly, I don't care that much about Euros, but I will be deeply pissed if Sotnikova gets a free pass to Worlds - free as in not going to Euros due to the injury (I don't think she will heal in time, and one month of practice isn't enough to master two new programs).

Snow63, your English is great

 

[Sophie-Anna]

According to Lakernik 'it's different'. Although I remember perfectly well how he and Gorshkov said that these Gold Medals (Sotnikova's and Lipnitskaia's) are equal. It was right after Sochi.

Acording to me it's the same. I know that "what if" changes nothing but just imagine Adelina skated two programs in the team event. and Julia wouldn't skate there. Situation should be opposite. So it is equal. Two great programs by Julia-gold medal. Two by Adelina-gold medal again(silver IMO but it still wasn't so unfair as some others gold medals)

 

[Ophelia]

 

[adelia]

I wonder if Tsareva will still agree with this if Pogorilaya comes in 3rd. Eteri was, of course, defending her skater, and I think there is quite a chance of Yulia placing 3rd considering her LPs this season.

Honestly, I don't care that much about Euros, but I will be deeply pissed if Sotnikova gets a free pass to Worlds - free as in not going to Euros due to the injury (I don't think she will heal in time, and one month of practice isn't enough to master two new programs).

Snow63, your English is great

Tsareva's statement was designed to protect her skater as much as Eteri's was. Anna doesn't have the same kind of standing or support in Russia that Yulia has. Blasting the Federation or their rules won't help Anna's cause. She just has to focus on skating her best and ignore the rest.

 

[NYscorp6]

Taking into account how the season has begun so far for the Russian ladies Liza and Elena seem to be the favorites for Gold & Silver at the Russian Nationals. Julia seems to be wound up way too tight, and it shows. Her performances are difficult to watch compared to Liza & Elena. If she continues the trend at nationals would the Russian federation dare to bump Julia from the team? Could she handle the blow mentally? I'm not so sure. Also I wonder if Adelina would benefit from just taking the whole season off and resume next year, if she chooses. Anna & Alena Leonova seem to be the wild cards here. Very exciting competition!!

 

[LeCygne]

I agree that Olympic champions deserve respect, and in any other country right now, there would be no question of sending the defending Olympic champion to Euros and Worlds without having competed at Nationals. The problem is that Russia isn't any other country right now, and the depth of the field doesn't allow room for any free passes, even for the defending Olympic champion, especially when there are in fact two defending Olympic champions.

If the top 3 skate lights out at Nationals, there should be no difference between the bronze medalist and the gold and silver medalists. If 3rd place has a not so great skate, then you could consider allowing Adelina to go, provided she shows that she's ready in a test skate or something. Something tells me Adelina won't end up competing this season anyway, so the Euro/World team will be Liza, Elena, and Julia regardless.

 

[makaihime]

I'm offering my opinion on a completely neutral POV.

Since Adelina is an OGM winner (argue all you want but she is in the history books as an OGM-ist), she deserves one free pass this season; to Euros. (I say one because Russian's has insane depths so it would be unfair to the other ladies otherwise.) Now, if she had won both the OGM and is also a World Champion, then I would say she deserves a free pass to Worlds (if she doesn't feel 100% before Euros and declines the spot) but she isn't and the only time she has really delivered was during the Olympics. So I think she should be given the chance to prove her worth this season at Europeans, and then the Russian Fed should decide the World Team based on her performance there.

And I absolutely don't think a singles OGM is equal to a team OGM. (Not just the Gold Medal, but a medal of any color) But Yulia did give an amazing performance at her team event so in this case her OGM shouldn't be so easily dismissed.

 

[NaVi]

I've already posted my opinion in the Russia Ladies thread...

Because it's pretty clear that even 3rd Russian lady still can EASILY win Euros and even Worlds

If the 3rd russian lady hasn't beaten the #1 and #2 Russian lady all season then there's no reason to believe the 3rd Russian lady could EASILY win Euros or even World... unless it's she's on the upswing and it's a close 3rd place.

But I will be a little irked if Adelina skates at Euros because quite honestly I think her injury was embellished to get her out of skating. She was overscored by 15-20 points in her Russia Cup outing(or 5-10 points more than the normal domestic competition inflation)... she was not ready for Rostelcom. She pulled out literally a couple hours after Yulia skated her CoC SP which is still the top scoring SP of the season... it was looking like Adelina would be the odd person out. They were coy about the timeline for when she'd be able to come back and now it's at a rather convenient time.

I don't think Yulia or Tutberidze deserve much sympathy with the way they've prepared for this season though. Yulia's head seems to be a bit in lalaland and I don't see much effort to get her out of it. Yulia needs to show that she's on the upswing and could win at Euros. TBH, I'll be more upset if Pogorilaya is 3rd and is looked over than if Yulia is the one looked over. Pogorilaya has never skated at Euros and Yulia needs a gold to really add to her prestige.

He gives an example that if Lipnitskaia will be 3rd than it will mean that she is 'not so well prepared'.

This is probably what triggered Tutberidze, and I don't agree with the statement.... but the grain of truth is that Yulia has better programs everyone else... if Yulia skates cleanly then no one is beating her unless Liza breaks out a triple axel... if Yulia is 3rd it means she's made mistakes.

[EDIT]

I think it would be healthy to set a benchmark... if neither LIpnitskaia or Porogilaya are within 13 points of the gold medal winner then go ahead and send Adelina.

 

[Ayeshoo]

It seems that only Eteri is on the other side though...
What would be interesting is that what if Liza ends up being third in Nationals (a big if, it seems). How will they decide between somebody who did well last season and someone who has been doing well this season, with a program that's already been "tried & tested" in several competitions.

I'm still relatively new in the forum and was never really updated so much before with what goes on outside the rink. My goodness, are they always this vocal?? Hehehe.
Love the "keep it cute" by the way.

Peace!

 

[Mrs. P]

While the policy is clearly stated (two two automatically get slots, third is decided on discretion), the policy for deciding that third spot is not as clear.

Is there a policy to apply for an injury bye? If so, what is it?
How are past results factored into the decision?

A bit apples and oranges, but interesting to note: Had the Russian fed used the USFSA criteria (http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...ps-Now-Known&p=1052123&viewfull=1#post1052123), Adelina woud not be a factor at all since the Olympics is not part of the criteria:

2015 Prudential U.S. Figure Skating Championships (Put Russia here instead)
2014 ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final (4 ladies in GPF - Liza; 1st, Elena; 2nd, Anna; 4th, Yulia; 5th)
2014 ISU World Figure Skating Championships (Yulia 2nd; Anna 4th)
2014 ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships (Europeans goes here: Yulia, 1st, Adelina 2nd; Leonova 4th)
2014 ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships (Elena won gold here)
2014 ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final (None of the ladies who qualified are old enough)


Under this criteria, Yulia has a strong case to go as reigning European champ. So does Liza (as GPF gold medalist) and Elena (Jr. Worlds Gold Medalist). Anna doesn't have strong as a case, but she had some decent results at Worlds.

 

[kiara_bleu]

Is there another European skater who is strong enough to challenge any of the Russian skaters? I would think that even if Adelina does not skate her best she can still get at least a bronze medal at Europeans so long as she does not completely bomb (same goes for Yulia or Anna). Would be a different story at Worlds where she will be facing stronger American and Japanese skaters. It would be quite an accomplishment for Russia if five of their top girls get medals at all the major events this season.

 

[Mrs. P]

Is there another European skater who is strong enough to challenge any of the Russian skaters? I would think that even if Adelina does not skate her best she can still get at least a bronze medal at Europeans so long as she does not completely bomb (same goes for Yulia or Anna). Would be a different story at Worlds where she will be facing stronger American and Japanese skaters. It would be quite an accomplishment for Russia if five of their top girls get medals at all the major events this season.

You have a point there. Carolina Kostner was the bronze medalist last season and she's obviously not around this time around.

That said, that gives Adelina a distinct advantage. She is likely to podium pretty easily and the Russian fed could easily use that as justification to sending her to Worlds.

 

[Snow63]

While the policy is clearly stated (two two automatically get slots, third is decided on discretion), the policy for deciding that third spot is not as clear.

Is there a policy to apply for an injury bye? If so, what is it?
How are past results factored into the decision?

I don't know for sure, but there's probably no clear criteria. The third member of the team is determined 'at the discretion of the Board of coaching' (direct quote from Lakernik). Maybe anyone knows better?
In theory, they should choose who they think will do better. What's in reality is another story.

 

[invisiblespiral]

What if Russian sends #1, #2 and #3 to worlds and #3, #4, and Adelina to Euros? (or #5....)

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Why did Adelina skip worlds last year? I can't seem to remember what the reason given was.

I really hope that Anna or Yulia get the third spot to Worlds since they put in the work and that created it.