Sara Hurtado & Kirill Khaliavin

Olibritt

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
260
Country
Spain
Skate Canada RD

Am I the only one here who prefers Sara's training dress to official one? :scratch2:

Of course not, I'm just waiting until the FD is over to comment all together.

Right now, I'm sending them my best vibes for the free. đź’Ş
They have a hell of a program, I hope they can show it. Good luck!
 

Olibritt

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
260
Country
Spain
Here is the free dance: H/K FD 2019 SC
As I said before, I think that this FD is a hell of a program, but I know I'm biased, that's why I was so happy listening to the commentator saying that she thought this program is a masterpiece. Anyone knows who's she?

Apart from that, now that the ice dance competition is over… time for opinions. I really love this team, I have a hard time when they have problems on the ice, but I'm a very opinionated person too, so... I have to share my sufferings :unsure:

Their SC competition was underwhelming. The RD was hard to watch and the FD not good enough but, at least, they were able to show how good it can be.

A few impresions (probably made up b****, but that's what I have):
- They were not ready for the competition and it was stronger than last year's GP. They should be fighting for the bronce but the scores show a very different reality.
- A few years ago, Sara in Canada was at home but not this time. Locals are enjoying their own teams and the adopted ones, they were the foreigners that need to be extremely good for the locals to pay attention… and they were not.
- There was something that was making them very unconfortable. The costumes? The backround? The mistakes? Whatever it was, the point still is that they were not ready. Javi can pull it out (sometimes) not being ready, or Hanyu, of course, but Sara& Kirill are not there (yet, of course, always yet).

And the costumes... :sad46:
I didn´t want to comment before the FD because I couldn't find a polite expression to describe Sara's RD costume… I still can´t, so I'm gonna say it: it was an abomination, probably the worst costume she's ever had. I say the worst and I remember that, once, she used this… and this too… Well, this is IMO, of course.

It's hard for me to say this because Sara has been telling in her Instagram that a spanish designer (Juan Vidal, not my favorite but not bad at all) offered them to help them with the costumes. That was very good news for a lot of reasons: Sara&Kirill need more support and, if spanish top skaters want to promote ice skating in Spain, they need to enroll professionals from other disciplines: dance, design, music producers… you name it. And because this kind of collaboration is usually a win-win for every one… But not this time.

There're some positive sides to this colaboration:
- Finally someone took time to design for Kirill, I'm not sure that his costumes fit the themes, but he looks good!
- Sara's dress for the FD is better, I don´t love it, but it's a good try.

They need to get rid of that golden dress, ASAP. I can not say one single positive thing about it, the fabric, the concept... Probably noone can.
 

coldblueeyes

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
2,117
Country
Brazil
I'm not offended by the fashion choices, but they are bold choices, to say the least.

But I also felt like they were uncomfortable or a bit at odds competing at SC. I don't know, in their previous competitions this season they seemed a lot more at ease than this time. With the level of competition, I don't know if they'd do enough for a podium, but they could have fought for the bronze with better skates, perhaps.
 

Tex

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
196
Kirill’s face at the end of both programs seemed to say that wasn’t anywhere near the best they have skated these programs. Was this their first time skating in the North America as a team? Maybe next year, they should do one of the Senior B in the U.S. or Canada to see how that compares score wise to a Senior B in Europe competition before the Grand Prix. They’ve had back to back competitions, so I wonder if that’s another reason they were off this competition.

RD: At the start of the season I really liked their Hello Dolly program, but after watching it multiple times and viewing the RDs of other teams, I feel like it’s a little too safe and a little generic character and choreography wise. I re-watched Hello, Dolly today to get a better idea on what I think they’re missing. Dolly’s character is this over the top, sassy, spunky, saucy, etc. matchmaker widow that decides that she’s not going to let life pass her by and is going to marry Horace who employed her to find him a wife. Sara needs to embody those characterizations a little more; she looks very sophisticated and classy but it’s lacking the comedy and sass of Dolly. I kind of wish they would add the song “So Long Dearie” to play up that comedy and take them out of the safe zone they keep putting themselves in their RDs. Kirill also needs to work on giving better face in this dance and the FD. His character of Horace is very much a curmudgeon that tends to get exasperated by Dolly until the end of the film, so he needs to channel that a little more. I really enjoy the midline step sequence in this dance especially the mirrored twizzles. They need a more dynamic and exciting lift that can help them get more GOEs too. I feel liked there needs to be more interesting choreography during the transition of songs and ending by using some of the choreography from the movie. Costume wise, I just don’t get the reference to the movie/musical other that it’s gold and shiny. The movie is set in the 1880s and was filmed in the late 1960s. The costumes in the movie are amazing and some of the details have a 1960’s vibe, and that should have been what they channeled in my opinion. I wish they had chosen costumes similar to ones in the movie like Dolly’s gold dress and Horace’s tux from the dinner scene. If, I were to watch their RD without the sound on, I would have no idea what they were skating too or at least the genre compared to teams like Olivia/Adria, Piper/Paul, Betina/Sergey.

FD: My only critiques with the FD is that they need more interesting rotational and curved lifts to give them more GOEs and she needs to get rid of the sleeve from the elbow down. Her use of her arms is exquisite and she shouldn’t hide them with sleeves. His blouse made me think of Alexi Urmanov for some reason.

I adore these two quite a lot; and I want to see them succeed and improve more and more as this season continues, but I think these are things the really need to work as well as the technical aspect of the dances to be more competitive. Hopefully, this competition is a wake up call for them that sets them on a path to the top of the podium.
 

gabriele

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
108
Agree about the golden costume. The big black bow in the back looks unrefined, especially in hold. S/D start their season so much earlier, having a number of competitions under their belt at this point. What is the reason H/D has only done one senior B recently and not with the final costumes? It feels they put themselves at a disadvantage and their competition readiness is lagging behind. I can't imagine it is by choice though.... :scratch2:
 

coldblueeyes

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
2,117
Country
Brazil
I went back to see their protocols, and I'm kinda gobsmacked at how far behind the other teams their BV ended up in the FD. They had some mistakes, but I felt like the TC was out to get them for some reason. :scratch2:
 

gordana

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 17, 2015
Messages
307
Country
Russia
Here is the free dance: H/K FD 2019 SC
As I said before, I think that this FD is a hell of a program, but I know I'm biased, that's why I was so happy listening to the commentator saying that she thought this program is a masterpiece. Anyone knows who's she?
I read in a Russian forum that it is Tracy Wilson from Toronto cricket & curling club.

By the way can you tell me who are the TDP commentators? I have known one of the voices for years and enjoy her commentaries.

What is the reason H/D has only done one senior B recently and not with the final costumes? It feels they put themselves at a disadvantage and their competition readiness is lagging behind.
Sara and Kirill did two competitions bur their costumes didn't go the customs' clearance back then.
 

Olibritt

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
260
Country
Spain
Ok, I didn´t recognized Tracy's voice. Yeah, I would expect friendly comments from her in general, but specially sweet with spanish skaters.

In TDP, the sports channel of spanish public TV, the main commentator for figure skating is Paloma del Río. She is one of those historic journalists that had to work very hard for being recognized for her profesionalism, she was the first woman in the TVE sports newsroom, she suposedly didn't belonged there so her workmates let her do the girlish sports that noone wanted to do: figure skating, gymnastics… and she did what a profesional would do, learn as much as she could and became the spanish expert in those sports. In fact, sometimes she has acted like a goodmother for some athletes, she has seen grow up a lot of generations of athletes by now. She usually works with Susana Palés, but I don´t know much about her. And at Skate America, I think there was a new one but I don´t know her (yet).

As much as I admire her, she is not my favorite commentator, and I think it's the same in other TVs (in english and french, as far as I can tell): any fan that reads skating forums have more information about the skaters than the journalists (or maybe they are not supposed to air some kind of info), so the only ones that can give information of value in the comments are ex-skaters or technical experts of some kind. But that's just my personal preference as a fan, it doesn´t detract merit from Paloma or other journalists like her that have been promoting minority sports and supporting lots of young athletes.
 

LaArdilla

Medalist
Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Messages
1,674
Now that we don't have British Eurosport uncles anymore I'm really glad to listen to these Spanish aunties instead. I agree, sometimes they fail to bring anything I haven't read or heard somewhere else, but maybe that's the point - they want to spell it out for the casual Spanish fan that doesn't know much about the sport. They are lovely and positive and get really excited when the skaters do well. :agree: :laugh:
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
11,123
For the SD: Dolly is all about DOLLY. Who ever really remembers any of the other characters? There's a really nice sort of cocktail jazz vibe to the step sequence, which they perform very well, but Dolly isn't a cocktail jazz kind of show. It's Total Traditional Broadway: big, brassy, loud, showy, SHOWBIZ. If they want to do a nice little cocktail jazz number, do Ain't Misbehavin'. Or use the Louis Armstrong version of the title song.

For the FD: Besides their unfortunate choices of costuming (his is just as ridiculous: glitter suspenders with a puffy shirt? Good Lord!), if they can resolved the beginning of the dance, I think it would go a long way. It shouldn't have to take until the CCSS to realize this is a modern take on flamenco. It's a first rate CCSS, one of the best I've seen this season. Why aren't they setting it up better in the beginning, which is far more generic "Sorta Spanish." And I do like the concept of black and white costuming they used earlier. It was sleek. Minimalism in the costuming would help put the focus on the dance, which is where it belongs.
 

Olibritt

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
260
Country
Spain
For the FD: ... if they can resolved the beginning of the dance, I think it would go a long way. It shouldn't have to take until the CCSS to realize this is a modern take on flamenco. It's a first rate CCSS, one of the best I've seen this season. Why aren't they setting it up better in the beginning, which is far more generic "Sorta Spanish." And I do like the concept of black and white costuming they used earlier. It was sleek. Minimalism in the costuming would help put the focus on the dance, which is where it belongs.

I'm not sure how Sara&Kirill, or Najarro, would answer to your questions, I only can tell what I see and what I understand when I watch their FD. They begin with movements that resemble birds and flamenco music and with that they create a very iconic image (at least in Spain): flamingos in Doñana. Doñana is a National Park in the south of Spain, where millions of birds stop in their migration north of Europe in summer-Africa in winter. Flamingos are not the only ones but are the most iconic and their name in spanish is "flamencos". Doñana Park is in the provinces of Huelva, Cádiz and Sevilla: homeland of flamenco music. I wouldn´t choose a black dress with this image in my mind: I would love red&white, but as minimalist as possible :laugh:

If you need a rational interpretation, here is a possible one: you can think of their free dance as the migration from the place of birth of flamenco to other musical traditions (rock, pop, morocan, arab, cuban son, latin [=from latinamerica], classic, contemporary… you name it), there're lots of musicians with flamenco roots making fusion music. And the few words that Sara&Kirill said about Najarro's intentions were that he wanted to show that flamenco can be contemporary too, that flamenco is more than tradition.

Any good program is full of little images and references, sometimes I can understand them in a rational way (or I think I can), but not always and that's not a problem to enjoy them, if they are able to transmit emotions. In fact writing these paragraphs felt like translating from emotions into words.

This was a very long argument to explain why I think that the beginning of the FD is perfect… yeah, I know, I need to learn to summarize…;)
 

maryeli

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Messages
326
My best wishes for Sara and Kirill this weekend :hap10: (I'm not a fan of the golden dress :confused2: , but if Sara likes it, then it's time to dance on ice :dance3: )
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
11,123
I'm not sure how Sara&Kirill, or Najarro, would answer to your questions, I only can tell what I see and what I understand when I watch their FD. They begin with movements that resemble birds and flamenco music and with that they create a very iconic image (at least in Spain): flamingos in Doñana. Doñana is a National Park in the south of Spain, where millions of birds stop in their migration north of Europe in summer-Africa in winter. Flamingos are not the only ones but are the most iconic and their name in spanish is "flamencos". Doñana Park is in the provinces of Huelva, Cádiz and Sevilla: homeland of flamenco music. I wouldn´t choose a black dress with this image in my mind: I would love red&white, but as minimalist as possible :laugh:

If you need a rational interpretation, here is a possible one: you can think of their free dance as the migration from the place of birth of flamenco to other musical traditions (rock, pop, morocan, arab, cuban son, latin [=from latinamerica], classic, contemporary… you name it), there're lots of musicians with flamenco roots making fusion music. And the few words that Sara&Kirill said about Najarro's intentions were that he wanted to show that flamenco can be contemporary too, that flamenco is more than tradition.

Any good program is full of little images and references, sometimes I can understand them in a rational way (or I think I can), but not always and that's not a problem to enjoy them, if they are able to transmit emotions. In fact writing these paragraphs felt like translating from emotions into words.

This was a very long argument to explain why I think that the beginning of the FD is perfect… yeah, I know, I need to learn to summarize…;)

No, no, it was very interesting and I learned something new. But perhaps they are having a similar problem with their FD that Hubbell and Donohue are having with theirs: it's too culturally specific. I had no idea of the flamingos in Donana, so the entire first part of the dance, if you pardon the expression, went over my head.

And yes, I like the idea of a contemporary flamenco. Which is why I really liked the original black and white costumes: they fit that vibe.

Very interesting post. Thank you!
 

Olibritt

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
260
Country
Spain
No, no, it was very interesting and I learned something new. But perhaps they are having a similar problem with their FD that Hubbell and Donohue are having with theirs: it's too culturally specific. I had no idea of the flamingos in Donana, so the entire first part of the dance, if you pardon the expression, went over my head.

And yes, I like the idea of a contemporary flamenco. Which is why I really liked the original black and white costumes: they fit that vibe.

Very interesting post. Thank you!



I'm gonna have to desagree about H&D because, after being flooded for near a century by US movies, music, food… I don´t think that "culturally specific" is a term that US can use in the sense that the rest of the world (with access to mass media, of course) do not understand their references :laugh:. But this is not the place to talk about H&D, maybe I'll expand in their own thread later…

What I'm going to expand here is some thoughts about contemporary flamenco. The thing is that I've been reading comments here and there about this season's flamenco programs and I don't want to look like a snob, because I'm no expert or as a impartial judge, because i'm very partial, but I want to share some opinions and this looks like a good place for that.

I'm not really into flamenco so, it's better to take what I said and what I'm about to say as a very personal opinion, I have just the little advantage of being spanish: flamenco it's not everywhere in Spain, but it's present in the culture, TV, music...

The thing is that the most recongnized flamenco talents, including singers, musicians, dancers and choreographers are very good at tradition but they like to explore new ways, styles and collaborations, there are amazing products of that, masterpieces in fact, but lots of criticisms too from the most traditional sectors. Najarro is a clear advocate for making flamenco more contemporary and his collaboration with figure skaters for so long is a clear example of that, because, let's be clear, even when it looks traditional, there's nothing traditional in flamenco "on ice".

The problem is that you need to be extremely good to make contemporary and, at the same time good flamenco. I think that the key for good flamenco is not the search for "tradition" at all cost, but the search for authenticity, so if you can master the art, you can adapt it to (almost) anything and make it work: a fashion show with electronic music and flamenco dancing, a stage play of ELECTRA, the classic greek play and flamenco dancing, a song that uses flamenco vocals and motorbikes sounds... In fact, compared with this examples (a bit extreme, I know), Sara&Kirill's fantastic FD looks "traditional" :laugh:
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
11,123
I'm gonna have to desagree about H&D because, after being bombarded for near a century by US movies, music, food… I don´t think that "culturally specific" is a term that US can use in the sense that the rest of the world (with access to mass media, of course) do not understand their references :laugh:. But this is not the place to talk about H&D, maybe I'll expand in their own thread later…

What I'm going to expand here is some thoughts about contemporary flamenco. The thing is that I've been reading comments here and there about this season's flamenco programs and I don't want to look like a snob, because I'm no expert or as a impartial judge, because i'm very partial, but I want to share some opinions and this looks like a good place for that.

I'm not really into flamenco so, it's better to take what I said and what I'm about to say as a very personal opinion, I have just the little advantage of being spanish: flamenco it's not everywhere in Spain, but it's present in the culture, TV, music...

The thing is that the most recongnized flamenco talents, including singers, musicians, dancers and choreographers are very good at tradition but they like to explore new ways, styles and collaborations, there are amazing products of that, masterpieces in fact, but lots of criticisms too from the most traditional sectors. Najarro is a clear advocate for making flamenco more contemporary and his collaboration with figure skaters for so long is a clear example of that, because, let's be clear, even when it looks traditional, there's nothing traditional in flamenco "on ice".

The problem is that you need to be extremely good to make contemporary and, at the same time good flamenco. I think that the key for good flamenco is not the search for "tradition" at all cost, but the search for authenticity, so if you can master the art, you can adapt it to (almost) anything and make it work: a fashion show with electronic music and flamenco dancing, a stage play of ELECTRA, the classic greek play, with contemporary music and flamenco dancing, a song that uses flamenco vocals and motorbikes sounds... In fact, compared with this examples (a bit extreme, I know), Sara&Kirill's fantastic FD looks "traditional" :laugh:

I had to have a laugh about "let's be clear, even when it looks traditional, there's nothing traditional in flamenco 'on ice.'" I come from a VERY Irish family, and every time I see a Riverdance program I feel the same way.

I'm all for fresh takes on tradition. I wrote in another thread here about the Broadway revival of Evita a few years ago, where the entire movement of the company was, with the exception of one number, pretty much variations on Argentine tango steps. It was just extraordinary.

I do hope that H/K go back to the original black and white costuming, which I thought was much more sleek and, yes, modern, than the unhappy hybrid they wore last time.
 

coldblueeyes

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
2,117
Country
Brazil
Happy for their medal - and the FD seems to be a better vehicle for them, best BV of the night for those two. Surprisingly, the Spanish judge was the one that gave them the lowest scores in both programs. Though, between the Polish and Spanish judges, both defended their teams.

In general, they need to get that RD in shape, I think it will impact their overall placement in the FD if they manage to get better scores.
 
Top