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- Jun 27, 2003
Mathman said:
I don't see where she's claiming she was robbed
hwell: :frown2: :sheesh:
I don't see where she's claiming she was robbed
hwell: :frown2: :sheesh:
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- Jul 27, 2003
While not coming out and saying wuz robbed IMO it seems like whoever wrote this is implying that Fumie only beat Sasha because of her easier qualifying round. Of course they also say that Sasha placed third in the FS and finished behind Fumie in the SP. Probably could have been worded more tactfully but whoever wrote it is trying to portray Sasha in the best possible light. "Almost pulled an upset when she finished third in the FS" is kind of funny in light of her not finishing in first place in the SP either, so, upset who? I think the thing that could be taken as a snub toward Fumie is the way it is written, again aimed at making Sasha look as good as possible. The same information could have been written....Sasha finished in fourth place for the second year but almost pulled off an upset when she finished third in the free skate. Fumie Suguri place ahead of Sash in the SP and won the bronze medal. It's interesting that the silver and gold medal winners are not mentioned at all. Why only discuss how Sasha did as compared to Fumie? If Fumie beat her because of the easier qualifying round, what is the excuse for the silver and gold medalists beating her? Let's face it which qualifying round a skater is in and skate order do have some influence on the results at times. OTOH the bottom line is Sasha did not skate her best and the qualifying round that Fumie was in had nothing to do with that.
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- Jun 27, 2003
again, I don't see where *she* said she was robbed... I see where her webmaster might have said it... but it could be that they're about as good writing reports as I am 
Suguri's "easier Qualifying group" in 2003 was only one factor in Sasha's failure to win a medal. The Q round doesn't have anywhere near the impact that SP placement does; it was Sasha's placement in the SP that made the podium a long shot. Sasha fell in the SP and was tied with Volchkova for 5th, behind Kwan, Sokolova, Suguri and Kostner. If Sasha had placed above Suguri in the SP and also beat her in the FS, Sasha would have won bronze, not Fumie.
It's telling that a major segment of the competition where Sasha underperformed wasn't even mentioned.
It's telling that a major segment of the competition where Sasha underperformed wasn't even mentioned.
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- Jun 21, 2003
Still, you can see the point that Sasha's people are making. We have to remember that at this point in her career, Sasha had not yet won a World medal, but she had come close both at 2002 Worlds and at the Olympics. Now, after a successful Grand Prix series, by sheer bad luck she was forced to skate in the harder qualifying group. Since both Michelle Kwan and Elena Sokolova were in that group, Sasha did not have a realistic chance of doing better than third.
Sokolova was at the peak of her most successful season ever. In the LP she skated a clean seven triple program, includng a triple-triple, and she skated with speed, power and expression. If the championship had been in Moscow that year instead of Washington, Sokolova would have won gold. Indeed, the only thing her performance lacked, if it lacked anything at all, was that last tiny centimeter of artistic/athletic perfection that distinguishes Michelle among her peers.
Fumie, on the other hand, had a cakewalk in her qualifying round. So the point that Sasha's supporters can make is this. Switch the two groups around. Then Sasha gets first in qualifying, fourth in Short and third in Long. Fumie gets third in qualifying, third in short, fourth in long. Sasha wins!
Maybe the CoP will minimize this sort of second guessing.
Mathman
Sokolova was at the peak of her most successful season ever. In the LP she skated a clean seven triple program, includng a triple-triple, and she skated with speed, power and expression. If the championship had been in Moscow that year instead of Washington, Sokolova would have won gold. Indeed, the only thing her performance lacked, if it lacked anything at all, was that last tiny centimeter of artistic/athletic perfection that distinguishes Michelle among her peers.
Fumie, on the other hand, had a cakewalk in her qualifying round. So the point that Sasha's supporters can make is this. Switch the two groups around. Then Sasha gets first in qualifying, fourth in Short and third in Long. Fumie gets third in qualifying, third in short, fourth in long. Sasha wins!
Maybe the CoP will minimize this sort of second guessing.
Mathman
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- Jun 21, 2003
Oh. She got fifth? Oh yes, I see that from your earlier post. Well, OK, 1st, 5th (or 6th) and 3rd, versus 3rd, 3rd and 4th.chuckm said:
What is more interesting to me is the fact that whoever wrote the article says that it would have been an upset if Sasha had won the bronze medal. Considering Sasha's career accomplishments up to that point I don't see why making the podium at Worlds would be regarded as an upset.
I wish I had my optimism, too. Already folks are complaining that, because of the ISU rating system, Michelle is in the harder qualifying group this year.Piel said:
In principle, this shouldn't matter. But since there will be different judging panels, it might. It looks like it turned out that way at Junior Worlds, where the second and third skaters in the tougher group might have been held down a little compared to the winner of the easier group.
Mathman
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- Jun 27, 2003
just think of Sasha like a can of soda... she's going to be hyped by her PR/Agent on her site because they are selling her...
you may or may not like diet Dr. Pepper... but according to their ads it tastes just like the "real thing"
you may or may not like Sasha, but according to her PR group she is the "best thing"
you may or may not like diet Dr. Pepper... but according to their ads it tastes just like the "real thing"
you may or may not like Sasha, but according to her PR group she is the "best thing"
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- Jun 27, 2003
Piel said:I'll stick with the classics....Coke and Kwan!
so THAT'S why I don't like Kwan... I don't like Coke!
*hugs* Thank you, Piel! I now understand where I "went wrong"
Not really, Fumie's achievement was acknowledged on one hand, then kind of taken down a notch OTOH in that article. Acknowlegement of her bronze medal was not praising, just a neutral report on the competition result
Re: Fumie did not fire the management company, therefore Fumie endorsed the content of that article . That is assuming Fumie knew about the article. She probably did not know about that article, she did not post the article in her own official website. That article certainly did not appear on Fumie's little rental space of the management company's website
Mathman said:
I was there, and saw all 3 phases of the competition. I remember Sokolova was SLOW, probably the slowest skater among the top 6. I am not sure if Fumie and Cup Cake were skating in the same QR, Cup Cake was able to beat Fumie. I thought Fumie's speed and stroking efficiency was the best, with Kostner being a close second. I had a long discussion with some people at the arena about why Fumie was not rewarded more for her basic skating skills compared to Kwan. People there pointed out Fumie had stroking efficiency, she sailed through the ice with tremendous speed, but her edges were not as quiet as Kwan. Kostner's speed, flow and edges were amazing. So everyone I talked to at the arena agreed that Kostner, Kwan and Fumie's basic skating were better than the other top skaters. Kostner and Cup Cake both landed 3z/3t in their sp, and Kostner's Taco Bell, I mean Parkabell cannon sp was nicely choreographed, so maybe the judges placed CupCake ahead of Kostner b/c her solo triple jump was a triple flip, and Kostner's was a loop. CupCake landed the 3/3 in the lp, her speed was not that impressive. I have no argument for her second place finish, but it was not really that close. In fact post competition, some reporters were trying to make CupCake said she WUZ robbed b/c she landed the 3/3, and Sokolova repeated "I made mistakes, I made mistakes" She could have whined about the QR, or being placed 2nd even though she landed more jumps, but she did not. She gave Kwan the proper due respect by not complaining
I haven'tg seen anyone here complaining about Michelle's qualiying group, where is this latest information? By folks complaining you mean her fans? Sure fans do that all the time, but unless Kwan herself complains about that through her PR people it should not matter at all
about cakewalk in qualifying. I am sure often nfc afc teams are not exactly evenly matched, and sometimes fans (ahem I mean the new term is supporters?) whine about if their favorite team is competing in the easier conference their favorite team would be conference champion, but bad luck in the tougher conference, their favorite team can't even make it to the play offs. These are things for fans to whine about. The athletes themselves do not talk about that in their interviews or their own official websites. Even nfl players have enough sportgsmanship to pay due respect to the other teams who are supposed to be in the easier conference, by not whining, or letting their PR team to whine. Even the nfl players know that if they win the championship in the so call tougher conference, then super bowl will be a cakewalk. World 2003 was the first time Fumie made the world podium, she deserved the bronze medal, I am surprise that you think she had a cakewalk at qualifying rounds
Really what is your proof that Cohen will win the so call cakewalk qualifying round. Actually Dan Fang stole the show at QR even though she did not place too well overall. Audience responded to Fang very well
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- Aug 17, 2003
gezando said:
While I don't think Cohen is bashful towards other skaters, I won't believe that Suguri is stupid or incompetent not to know what was written about her by her own management. Again, the piece of information was published by Fumie's own PR firm, and was posted on it's page for almost 2 years (until the company's recent split).
I have no idea how Fumie organizes her fan site, Sasha used to post every articles written by CMM on her own web page in the News section (they are still there, by the way). Suguri may have organized her site differently, I don't see how it's relevant here.
As to Cohen not doing enough to promote Fumie on her personal web site (SashaCohen.com), I don't see why she should do it for any skater. She was very gracious to devote a length of almost entire interview, where she acknowledged Fumie's help at the Olympics (that's how story got known in the first place), and thanked her numerous times.
Since you're a Fumie's fan, you'd be interested to watch a documentary about her, shot by Japanese TV. They show her chatting with Sasha during the 2004 COI tour, and they appear to be very friendly, perhaps seeing it will help you sleep better at night.
registered said:
So the firm post it in its page, not at Fumie's little rental unit of the offricial page, therefore why should she be held responsible to know that her own PR people were taking down her achievement a notch to promote Cohen? Fumie should not be so trusting, but that is another issue Some people here said, Cohen did not write the article, her webmaster did. That implied that Cohen did not know about the content of this article. So if Cohen is not held responsible of kinowing the content of the article post at her own website, why should Fumie be held responsible to know what people put in Cohen's official website
Who said Cohen should promote Fumie. Not endorosing any article that takes Fumie's achievement down notch is not the same as promoting. Plain and simple the discounting Fumie's achievement part of the article can easily be deleted, and there is still enough in there to promote Cohen
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- Aug 17, 2003
gezando said:
"Little rental unit," "down a notch." Poor Fumie, I almost feel like crying for her. (I love your instant invention of a "rental unit" on the web page, btw, almost like renting a mail box, right?) IMO article doesn't take anything away from Fumie, not a notch, not two, not three. It is about Sasha, saying that she was very close to a medaling position, nothing more.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I got this from the World's predictions thread, post number 85 by Casper. I was not able to verify this from the ISU site, but Casper said that Michelle, Irina and Shizuka are all in the same qualifying group, while Sasha and Miki are in the other.gezando said:
However, I think the main point is:
I agree, this is just how the athletes ought to look at it. Being in the tougher group cuts both ways. Yes, you might falter, but on the other hand you have a chance not only to gain ground yourself but also to knock your competiton down a peg. At 2004 Worlds, for instance, when Shizuka won her qualifying group (with Miki second) that also put her biggest rival, Michelle, behind the eight ball, and put Shizuka in the driver's seat for the rest of the competition.
Mathman
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