Sasha. Comeback. Believe it.

[Spun Silver]

I'm just wondering...if Sasha goes to SA and doesn't medal or finishes below at least one US lady, then withdraws from 2010 Nationals due to injury, will she petition the USFS for an Olympic berth? And if she does, with the USFS grant her petition?

I really can't see that scenario, unless:

* She does a perfect FS at SA (showing that she's kicked the monkey off her back) AND (not OR)
* Sr. Ladies at Nats are a big disappointment with injuries, setbacks, and failures to improve all around.

Rachael seems to have a berth with her name on it and Caroline and Ashley () will be knocking themselves out for the second spot. If Sasha gets it she'll have to earn it all the way, IMO.

I don't think that the USFS is going to allow a repeat of what happened with Michelle in 2006. Nor should they.

 

[Particle Man]

I think Sasha's fans misunderstand the skeptics' points. I never knew saying that "given her competitive history, and being out 3.5 years, I don't think she'll be able to withstand Olympic training without getting hurt" would qualify as "bashing". Lighten up folks!!

Spin much?

First off, all of you Sasha-bashers need to eat crow for being wrong about her comeback. But you won't. You're still even doubting it openly. That's one reason we hate you. The other is your constant, completely negative assumptions. Even after being proven wrong about her comeback, you talk like you are the authority on Sasha. You don't say "I don't think she'll be able to do it", you say "she WON'T do it" and then you mock anyone that thinks she even has a chance. That's also why we hate you.

 

[R.D.]

Rachael seems to have a berth with her name on it

wow wow wow. I know Flatt seems heavily favored for an Oly spot but I'm not for a MOMENT going to state that she is a shoo-in. Not by any means. Too much can happen between now and January.

 

[R.D.]

First off, all of you Sasha-bashers need to eat crow for being wrong about her comeback. But you won't. You're still even doubting it openly. That's one reason we hate you. The other is your constant, completely negative assumptions. Even after being proven wrong about her comeback, you talk like you are the authority on Sasha. You don't say "I don't think she'll be able to do it", you say "she WON'T do it" and then you mock anyone that thinks she even has a chance. That's also why we hate you.

'nuff said

You should have been here six years ago. Honestly.

 

[chuckm]

Hate is a VERY strong word, and one that I don't think should be used in reference to either skaters or other posters.

Yes, I am a Sasha skeptic, and my opinion is very much based on past history. The last year that Sasha skated in a full GP was 2003-2004. She did no GP events in 2004-2005 (backed out of SA and Lalique with injury) and just one in 2005-2006 (backed out of SA with injury).

In 2004-2005, she began training for the season in midsummer with Robin Wagner as her coach. But rather than training under Wagner, Sasha trained by herself during July, but apparently wasn't making much headway. So she began intensive training in August and September, but overdid and citing a recurrence of her back injury, she withdrew from SA and then from Lalique. Shortly after that, she broke with Wagner and went back to John Nicks.

Sasha is in pretty much a similar situation now, only worse, as she hasn't trained rigorously for more than 3 years. Right now, she is skating in CSOI with tendonitis in her foot, and has said she won't start full training until June to give her foot a chance to heal. With SA in November, she's not giving herself enough time to get her jumps back, learn two new programs, and work them enough so that she has the stamina to get through them.

IMO, she is setting herself up for injury.

BTW, I'm not "eating crow". Because at this point, Sasha SAYS she is coming back, but I'll believe it when I see her on competition ice. There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.

 

[R.D.]

FTR:

ITA with Chuck's post above.

But I didn't know she trained by herself in summer '04. Where did you hear about that?

 

[chuckm]

Sasha was seen practicing by herself that summer with Wagner nowhere in evidence.

 

[demarinis5]

'nuff said

You should have been here six years ago. Honestly.

Be careful RD you might get sent to jail.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

First of all where is the brouhaha about her returning. Like should she.
Everyone even the media stated Michelle shouldn't, however lets Sasha comeback with open arms.
Why shouldn't she, they cheated for her then-they will continue now.
Yes lets welcome her back, we held the younger skaters scores down,
we cheated for Sasha in the earlier years by overlooking her mistakes--Heck even this years mistakes favor Sasha (how by overlooking her mistakes with the judges--in other words they don't see it, they don't have to mark it off onGoe's
even though the Technical caller downgraded the jump -or called wrong edge.
Also when she let in 2007 regarding nationals the USFSA stated back then, they would love to have Sasha on the Olympic team, Michelle no--she should have retired in 1998...
.

Wow... Do I sound like that? Seriously. Does KW come across as such a crazed MK fan that she cannot just say :Yay! for Sasha! Skate on Girl. Skate on! Do grouse and moan about decisions long past that never really impacted negativly on MK's total domination of the sport of figure skating while handling negativity with grace and style?

Be honest. Isn't it enough for me that Michelle Kwan is the greatest skater EVER without holding a grudge against an entire sport?

I hope not, because I LIKE watching skating on television and I know that my best chance of watching SA and Nationals is by Sasha showing up...

And stop playing - y'all know that if Sasha shows up at Nationals ready to skate, she's going to the Olympics...

 

[Particle Man]

Yes, I am a Sasha skeptic, and my opinion is very much based on past history.

I'm a Sasha realist. That is why I knew she was coming back in the first place. It wasn't pie-eyed fanboyism, it was just a basic understanding of Sasha, and I was proven right. Read my posts about Sasha and you will see all kinds of concerns just like what you mention, injury and everything else. But being a realist doesn't mean you have to also be a pessimist. I see no objectivity in Red Dog's comments at all, it's just constant nonstop negativity and pessimism.

Sasha has been doing yoga. I haven't even seen that mentioned here. It is safe to say that her time doing yoga should definitely improve her overall physical condition and lessen the chance of injury. Can injury still happen? Of course. So therefore we should just assume it's GOING to happen, and bash people who try to be optimistic? Spare me.

Red Dog and the others care only about one thing -- raining on people's parade. I say again: he was wrong about her coming back, so I don't know why anyone should listen to his predictions about said comeback.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I do not think Sasha has been bashed in this thread. Posters are writing what they believe are the merits or demerits of her return to eligible skating. It may be some Sasha fans (even those who wont admit it) feel concerned that if some of the speculations about her are not showing positive feeling about her return.

From what I've been reading, not everyone is overjoyed with the return. They feel she may get sympathy and get US Nats for being selected as one of the Team going to the Olys. I feel she has a right to try to tie MK's and IS's Oly medal count, but I don't feel it should be at the expense of a better skater. We must wait and see, the next actual move.

 

[Particle Man]

I do not think Sasha has been bashed in this thread. Posters are writing what they believe are the merits or demerits of her return to eligible skating. It may be some Sasha fans (even those who wont admit it) feel concerned that if some of the speculations about her are not showing positive feeling about her return.

From what I've been reading, not everyone is overjoyed with the return. They feel she may get sympathy and get US Nats for being selected as one of the Team going to the Olys. I feel she has a right to try to tie MK's and IS's Oly medal count, but I don't feel it should be at the expense of a better skater. We must wait and see, the next actual move.

Umm... what? Anyway, there's no way Sasha is getting a free pass to the Olympics. I've already explained this repeatedly. There is no comparison with the Michelle Kwan situation in '06. Michelle was the 9-time national champion up to and including the season prior to the '06 Olympic season. Sasha has missed 3 seasons. She's not in the stratospheric position Kwan was in in '05/'06, she has to prove herself like anyone else would. Sasha knows this, I know this. The only people that don't know this are people that like to invent fantasy scenarios, so they get an opportunity to blame Sasha for something that will never, ever happen.

 

[Mathman]

You should have been here six years ago. Honestly.

Red Dog is referring to those thrilling days of yesteryear when he was almost run out of town on a rail for rooting for new-kid-on-the-block Sasha to knock off Michelle.

RD is an equal opportunity skeptic. :yes:

 

[R.D.]

Folks,

What MM says is true. But it's only a half-truth: fact of the matter is, I was in the "anyone-but-Kwan" camp. And, nationally, Cohen was the closest competitively to MK. I could have cared less who it was. Internationally, it was a different story. Seriously, those Nationals competitions around 03-05 were pretty intense.

I may be Red Dog, but I root for the Underdog. I tend to not like seeing a skater win or dominate time and time again, regardless of where they're from. The old timers know this. I also tend to favor the Up-And-Comer over the Veteran, although there have been instances where that wasn't the case. So it's quite simple, really. Cohen can do what she wants- I want the US ladies to put their best face forward in the Olympics, but inherently I will root for our other ladies over Cohen, and I will have my eye on one particular skater to do so, hoping she makes it or at least comes on strong.

 

[shallwedansu]

More from Hersh:

So, for my Japanese readers (arigato!) and everyone else, a few highlights from the media question-and-answer with Sasha:

Q. There are a lot of great young skaters. Are you trying to beat them for an Olympic spot or medal? Is this just about you at this point?

A. It started with me just wanting to come back for a third Olympics, to accept this challenge. Then as you get into it, you are aware of your competitors, and you don't want to go just to be your best but to be the best. There are amazing skaters in the world, technically, artistically . . . I feel confident that I can come up to that level.

Q. How much did not having a dominant U.S. skater now help you think you can be competitive in this group?

A. My decision wasn't factored into that because in the world, it's a very strong stage right now.

Q. Why did you pick Rafael Arutunian as your coach? (Cohen had been coached by John Nicks the rest of her elite career.)

A. I have known Rafael since 2000 when I took some lessons from him in Sun Valley. But I didn't know until I went to Lake Arrowhead last summer and started taking lessons (with Arutunian, who also coached Asada and Michelle Kwan) and saw how much I was improving and absolutely loving training. I just felt like I was 10 years old wanting to learn how to skate all over again.

 

[pista04]

I root for the Underdog. I tend to not like seeing a skater win or dominate time and time again, regardless of where they're from.

If you root for the underdog, then wouldn't you be rooting for Sasha, and not against? If she does return successfully, which I would looove to see as a huge Sasha Fan (she will forever be my favorite skater), then she'll be put up against the likes of not only Asada, Rochette, Kim, Ando, but also Flatt, Nagasu, Zhang and Wagner, who are phenomenal if they are on (it's just...for 3/4 of them, being on for both phases is a bit rare). I would love to see Sasha just make the team, but after years off of competitive skating, and the new young ones prepared to fight with triple-triples, she'll have a rough go.

 

[Particle Man]

Exactly. Any US skater would be the underdog.

I don't buy it. He doesn't root for the underdog, he just likes to slander whoever is on top. That's not the same thing.

 

[Mathman]

The topic is Sasha's comeback, not what we think about each other.

 

[R.D.]

If you root for the underdog, then wouldn't you be rooting for Sasha, and not against? If she does return successfully, which I would looove to see as a huge Sasha Fan (she will forever be my favorite skater), then she'll be put up against the likes of not only Asada, Rochette, Kim, Ando, but also Flatt, Nagasu, Zhang and Wagner, who are phenomenal if they are on (it's just...for 3/4 of them, being on for both phases is a bit rare). I would love to see Sasha just make the team, but after years off of competitive skating, and the new young ones prepared to fight with triple-triples, she'll have a rough go.

Will Cohen be the underdog? With her accolades I certainly don't see her as one, although I could see the argument otherwise. She'll just need to prove she still "has it" after being out 3.5 years. Someone like Kimmie Meissner, on the other hand, I see as an underdog, having committed the "first to worst" crime that is common in team sports.

I was probably a bit harsh in saying I'd root against Cohen. Instead, I would root FOR one or two of the other skaters that have really had it tough last season. However, I would like to hold all in-depth discussion until I actually see Cohen on the ice at a GP- that will be my verification that she is healthy and up to the challenge. Talk is cheap, as they say and no, I don't doubt her word. I just think injury will take her out. But one thing I like about all this- you bet the other US ladies will come fighting, i.e. the standard will be raised. Nothing like a little extra competition for some motivation.

 

[Spun Silver]

No - there really is a special animus and Schadenfreude against Sasha that comes out every time she has a thread like this. The only reason we haven't seen as much of it lately... an amazing period of respect and sanity... is that the US ladies haven't quite stepped up. Ole Sasha's been looking pretty good.

But now that Ole Sasha is shooting for another Olympic slot, fasten your seat belts. It will be Sasha the Mean Girl who Robbed Caroline (or whoever), Sasha the Lazy, and Sasha the Great Disappointment all over again.

If it bugs you, just don't participate and set a better example. Attention just keeps it going.