Sasha. Comeback. Believe it.

[seniorita]

i think it is Plushenko internationally, the Pluschenko ones sounds like Plutsenko
anyway it doesnt matter, it was a silly joke of me

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Joe you've mentioned this a few times but i don't know the rule yo're talking about - there is nothing to stop Sasha being picked by USFSA as their "host pick" for SA. Other than that the reason Sahsa cannot compete on the GP is because she wasn't at worlds last year and isn't on the SB list because she didn't compete last season.

Ant

Ant - It's not a question of Worlds, and it is not a question of the USFS. It's just plain old ISU directive. From Visalikiad' post:

Quote:
2.2. Invited Skaters/Couples

e) Skaters/couples, seeded in any previous year (place 1 to 6 in the respective World Championships), and who due to injury or no fault of their own, were forced to sit out competitive season(s) could be considered for selection for up to 2 assignments, if they return to competitive skating

She must.first get approval from the ISU. The USFS has nothing to do with this. It is an ISU competition not a US Nationals competition. Sasha has to explain why she was sitting out competitions from 2006 Worlds ot 2009 through no fault of her own. She was skating in SOA but she was not competing during that period. This approval is foremost in her skating SA.

It is possible that the ISU will waive the rule, but will she get permission to do 2 GPs?

Personally, I think she should skip the international GPs and concentrate on the US Nats which, if she does well, will get her to the Olys which is her main goal.

btw. That ISU rule is known colloquially as the Kwan Rule.

 

[antmanb]

Ant - It's not a question of Worlds, and it is not a question of the USFS. It's just plain old ISU directive. From Visalikiad' post:

Quote:
2.2. Invited Skaters/Couples

e) Skaters/couples, seeded in any previous year (place 1 to 6 in the respective World Championships), and who due to injury or no fault of their own, were forced to sit out competitive season(s) could be considered for selection for up to 2 assignments, if they return to competitive skating

She must.first get approval from the ISU. The USFS has nothing to do with this. It is an ISU competition not a US Nationals competition. Sasha has to explain why she was sitting out competitions from 2006 Worlds ot 2009 through no fault of her own. She was skating in SOA but she was not competing during that period. This approval is foremost in her skating SA.

Honestly i don't really know why that rule has been brought in but it certainly would not apply to Cohen (or Kwan - i can't believe anyone would call it the Kwan rule!!) since neither of them have been away from skating because of injury or through no fault of their own. Sasha chose to try her hand at acting and make money by doing SOI. There is no question at all as far as i'm concerned - that rule cannot apply to Sasha. She has not said anything herslef about a second GP - i can't imagine she would want another one either. The only GP assignment she will get is to SA as the host pick. That's all she needs really to get international feedback on her programs before nationals.

No need to ask anyone to bend any rules, just follow the rules and don't expect 2 GPs.

Ant

 

[chuckm]

Kwan had surgery on her hip after withdrawing from the 2006 Olympics and did not return to the ice until the fall of 2008. I think she is the only one who fits the "no fault of her own" criteria, since she did not participate in any activity during Olympic cycle which involved skating. Both Cohen and Plushenko skated on lucrative tours and in shows, earning big $ from their skating, and that was their choice.

 

[MKFSfan]

I agree with you, Chuckm. I think it's silly that in this "amateur" sport, eligible athletes are allowed to leave eligible competition for three years, make millions of dollars off that same sport, and then come back just in time for a chance to compete at the Olympics. I know they are well within rights to do so, as per the rules, since it's not considered "pro-skating," but I just don't agree with it. Had Sasha gotten acting gigs, or gone off to College, then mounted a comeback, I wouldn't feel the same way, but she was on a skating tour, making $$...But whatever! Back in time to "rescue" skating!

 

[seniorita]

And kwan didnt need to skate to earn this big $, she has contracts the other two can only dream of.
plush had double knee surgery in 2007 ,and all in all 5 surgeries after olympics and was abcent also for sometime, if he hadnt stopped competing for any reason, shows or not, he would have ended up in little pieces(this has nothing to do with the rule of gp, it is clear it is not no fault of his own category, he did a looong break). Shows are not that demanding, lambiel does it injured, yagudin did also.
why is it bad for sasha to skate in shows and earn money from that but it is ok the acting gigs,advertisments etc?For me everything is fine, how long athletes can skate after competitions?It is figure skating, not football, i wonder what all these skaters do for a living after stop competing, i dont know many who became Bechams in this sport.

 

[Mathman]

I wanted to ask yesterday, the rule that hosting federation can invite one of its skaters that doesnt belong in other categories, like plushenko or sasha, is it somewhere written?

I have searched the ISU web site and have not been able to find it.

It is not section 2.2 paragraph e) that is relevant, it is section 2.2 paragraph h).

In addition to the seeded skaters/couples and the above-mentioned invited skaters/couples, each host ISU member may select additional skaters/couples in accordance to the selection procedures established by the ISU Figure Skating Event Coordination Group.

In other words, this Event Coordination Group can pretty much do as it pleases, never mind the rules.

In the past, one of the selection procedures established by this group was that the host could invite anyone they wanted to, as long as the other rules were followed (only three skaters from one country, no more than twelve in the field altogether, international skaters in various categories are guaranteed a certain number of events, etc.)

I do not see anything that would prevent this group from scheduling an emergency meeting and coming up with a new "prcocedure" that would allow -- well, pretty much anything they wanted to allow.

Edited to add: PS. The chairman of this Events Coordinating Group is Mario Meinel of Germany. Another responsibility of this group is to give approval of substitutions when a skater withdraws.

 

[Andalusia]

I wouldn't be too surprised if Sasha was held up big time at Nats. We saw it happen with Alissa, so I don't see why it can't happen with Sasha. In fact, Sasha might be the new 'go to' girl now that Alissa has proven herself unreliable. All she will have to do is skate a clean short (which Sasha is perfectly capable of doing; it's the LP where she'll run into problems), and the judges will reward her for her 'mature' and 'womanly' skating to give her a comfortable lead going into the LP. And the rules may have now been changed so that placement at Nats isn't the sole criterion for Olympic team selection, but if Sasha places at least second, I don't think the USFS will leave her off the team.

Now, I'm not saying the above will definitely happen, but if it does, I would hardly be surprised.

 

[seniorita]

So if there is no specific rule, that they can invite one skater, if cohen and kwan do come back ,can they invite both in SA?

***thank you for info as always***

 

[chuckm]

Yes, they can choose both Kwan and Cohen as host picks.

 

[Mathman]

So if there is no specific rule, that they can invite one skater, if cohen and kwan do come back ,can they invite both in SA?

I don't know.

My impression is that there is a labyrinth of rules somewhere or other in the ISU catacombs, but when they issue their official communications to the public they just give a summary of the most obvious ones.

Plus, the ISU Council and its various committees have the power to override some of the rules should unusual circumstances arise.

Plus, Mr. Cinquata seems to be able to interpret the rules however he wishes, or to disregard them altogether.

I am sure that if Michelle and Sasha both came back and if the USFSA pushed hard enough for it, a way would be found for this to happen. (I'll eat my other hat if Michelle comes back. I already had to eat my first hat when Sasha made her announcement. )

 

[chuckm]

why is it bad for sasha to skate in shows and earn money from that but it is ok the acting gigs,advertisments etc?For me everything is fine, how long athletes can skate after competitions?It is figure skating, not football, i wonder what all these skaters do for a living after stop competing, i dont know many who became Bechams in this sport.

It's not that it's "bad", it's that it was her choice to make big $$ by skating in shows rather than lesser money skating competitively since the last Olympics. Sasha simply does not qualify as having sat out 3 seasons "through no fault of [her] own".

That Kwan has endorsements that earn money for her is beside the point. The surgery she had in 2006 required a long rehab afterward, and that is what kept her off the ice until the fall of 2008. She has skated only in practice since then, and she does meet the ISU criteria.

 

[PolymerBob]

That Kwan has endorsements that earn money for her is beside the point. The surgery she had in 2006 required a long rehab afterward, and that is what kept her off the ice until the fall of 2008. She has skated only in practice since then, and she does meet the ISU criteria.

I don't know the dollars and cents, nor do any of us. But I know that both Michelle and Sasha did very well with endorsements.

http://www.klotzwatches.net/images/citizen_eco-drive_3_copy.jpg

 

[Mathman]

I don't know the dollars and cents, nor do any of us. But I know that both Michelle and Sasha did very well with endorsements.

http://www.klotzwatches.net/images/citizen_eco-drive_3_copy.jpg

But unfortunately that ad is from 2005 (although that very poster is still up at The House of Watchbands on Southfield Road in Detroit! )

I am pretty sure that Michelle's contracts with Disney were for a million dollars a year or more, and her contract with Chevrolet was for over a million for two years. I don't know what she got from the East-West Bank (but it was enough to change the name from the Artesia Ice Palace to the East-West Ice Palace ) Coca-cola gave Michelle a good chunk just before the 2006 Olympics -- then was stuck with a million botles of Coke with Michelle's picture on the label when Michelle withdrew. (These still pop up in stores once in a while.)

(Despite Michelle's best efforts, General Motors is expected to declare bankruptcy this week. )

Those days seem to be over. Not just for figure skaters, but the whole celebrity-athlete endorsement thing is taking a hit in hard times. It is just not so clear any more that customers will rush out and buy something just because LeBron James or Peyton Manning tell them to.

 

[seniorita]

lol, this thing with coca cola i didnt know, they didnt reach europe?So people stopped buying them cause she withdrew?
seriously why coca cola uses athletes for ads, it looks controversial. In europe i have not seen a top skater with his face connected to any large company, maybe only carolina with lancia?

ps can you leave one bottle in the ocean to cross here?

 

[PolymerBob]

But unfortunately that ad is from 2005 (although that very poster is still up at The House of Watchbands on Southfield Road in Detroit! )

At Dick's Sporting Goods in Milford, CT, they still have the poster of Kimmie jumping over a pipe in the Super Bowl commercial.

 

[Mathman]

ps can you leave one bottle in the ocean to cross here?

I drank all mine.

But I just did a Google image search on "Kwan coke" and a bunch of interesting stuff gave up, including the following. (I don't think Michelle is the model, but it is an ad for Lemon Coke Light produced by Susan Kwan, an ad executive in Hong Kong.)

http://files.coloribus.com/files/paedia/print/part_5/58886/preview_600_300.jpg

No, wait. Here's the real Michelle.

http://heatherw.com/mk/endorse/pics/coke_sidebanner_ad1_site.jpg

http://heatherw.com/mk/endorse/pics/coke_sidebanner_ad2_site.jpg

Here's the story about it. Coca-cola wanted Michelle because their marketing reseach showed that she was the third-ranked "most appealing sports asset" for women aged 24 to 49. (First was the Olympic Games itself, and second was cyclist and cancer survivor Lance Armstrong.) So with Michelle ay the Olympics, they figured they were getting a "two-fer."

http://heatherw.com/mk/endorse/coke.htm

 

[Dee4707]

ps can you leave one bottle in the ocean to cross here?

You betcha!!!!

 

[seniorita]

I ll be waiting by the seasore

I drank all mine.

LOL, that is what it means to be a true fan. I should have eaten all of evgeni's chupa chups

 

[Wrlmy]

lol, this thing with coca cola i didnt know, they didnt reach europe?So people stopped buying them cause she withdrew?
seriously why coca cola uses athletes for ads, it looks controversial. In europe i have not seen a top skater with his face connected to any large company, maybe only carolina with lancia?

ps can you leave one bottle in the ocean to cross here?

David Beckham, Maria Sharapova, Lance Armstrong, etc.