Sasha. Comeback. Believe it.

[NYscorp6]

Wow, I must say that watching this discussion evolve has been fascincating. One thing is for sure, love her or hate her Sasha brings star quality and buzz right along with her. Sasha has once again become "THE" story in US Figure Skating.

For skating fans, 4 years can seem like an enternity. And yet life goes on and here we are again anticipating another Olympic season build up.

Why people like to bash certain skaters is beyond me. It isn't as if we are speaking of Jill Trenary or Nicole Bobek or even Kristi making a come back, (each lady is a favorite of mine btw). Sasha excelled under the new judging system, granted it has evolved. Sasha is not stupid, she knows she has her work cut out for her.

As for SOI, I was fortunate enough to be in the front row of the Long Island show and I enjoyed it very much. Sasha is the star, but remember all these skaters need to make a living. Why is it a crime to make some money? Support their families? Perhaps pay a few bills? Isn't that what most of us do on a daily basis? I know I do. Lets try and keep it real please.

 

[Spun Silver]

It's not that it's "bad", it's that it was her choice to make big $$ by skating in shows rather than lesser money skating competitively since the last Olympics. Sasha simply does not qualify as having sat out 3 seasons "through no fault of [her] own".

Please back this up if you're going to make an issue of it. I see little evidence of big bucks. I doubt Sasha or other SOI skaters are rich given shrinking crowds. Yes, she's earning her living, but "big $$"?

I imagine the few TV and movie roles paid better. But her endorsements have been few and the only good one was the watch co. A tiny little nasal spray ad? That can't have been worth much.

 

[Mathman]

I don't think the question is about how much money the returning skaters make. It is about how the ISU intends to interpret its "though no fault of their own" rule.

Actually, I "fault" the ISU for its choice of words. "Not your fault" versus, "yes, it's your fault," makes it seem like it is some sort of moral lapse to take a year off -- presumably meaning a lapse in loyalty to the ISU.

 

[seniorita]

yes maybe they forgive their fault cause comebacks always sell more tickets

 

[chuckm]

It's also that these skaters are skating in shows instead of competing at ISU events. Some of the European skating shows are in direct competition with GP events, and SOI is in direct competition with ISU Championship events.

It's not for nothing that the ISU has published rules warning skaters against appearing in ice shows instead of the GP and threatening them with not being allowed to skate at Worlds and Olympics.

To Speedy, ice shows are THE ENEMY.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

After rereading and rereading all of this again and again :yes: Can anyone give a good speculation on how the ISU would react to Sasha's plea?

 

[Mathman]

^ Well, speculation is easy enough, as long as no facts are required.

Here is mine. Sasha does not want to do any Grand Prix events except for Skate America. Therefore she does not have to submit any pleas to the ISU. All she needs to do is show up at Lake Placid, with the blessing of the USFSA in the form of a "host pick."

Edited to add: But as usual, I might be wrong about Sasha not wanting a second assignment. David Raith's statement seemed to say that he thought other federations would snap her up if she became available.

One problem -- if she makes herself available for the whole shebang, and wins the approval of the iSU to do so, then one of the earlier events, like Eric Bompard might select her. October might be too early for Sasha's intended training schedule.

Wait and see, I guess.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^ Well, speculation is easy enough, as long as no facts are required.

Here is mine. Sasha does not want to do any Grand Prix events except for Skate America. Therefore she does not have to submit any pleas to the ISU. All she needs to do is show up at Lake Placid, with the blessing of the USFSA in the form of a "host pick."

thank you MM. I wasn't aware that she could pass by the ISU just the invitation. So it is up to her just to get her feet wet with the international competition.

Now, MM, What do you think of her chances in US Nats? and what spec is there for her in the Olys if Nats goes well?

My problem with all this is that I haven't seen her skate except on TV which I was not impressed but given her possiblities, she may well be a contender.

 

[MKFSfan]

...but remember all these skaters need to make a living. Why is it a crime to make some money? Support their families? Perhaps pay a few bills? Isn't that what most of us do on a daily basis? I know I do. Lets try and keep it real please.

I never said it is a crime to make money or that Sasha shouldn't allow her avocation become her vocation. What I was getting at is Olympics are supposed to be for amatuer athletes, right? I realize technically, as far as ISU or USFSA are concerned, Sasha has not returned pro, but as far as I'm concerned the meaning of pro Vs amateur of any sport is one who makes money directly off their talents (not including winning competitions), or makes money for their employers directly off their talents. I would think skating in shows fall under this category.

BUT it is well within the rules to do such, so therefore Sasha or Plushy or whoever is perfectly able to do so.

 

[Particle Man]

"Of course, I would like to do a second Grand Prix,'' Cohen said. "I have been away for a while, and the more competitive practice I get, the better.''

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/olympics/chi-sasha-cohen-skate-america,0,2761023.story

"While Cohen would like to compete at two ISU Grand Prix events this fall, she will have to wait for the official ISU event assignments in June to see if she receives her wish."

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090507&content_id=64564&vkey=ice_news

 

[Mathman]

Now, MM, What do you think of her chances in US Nats? and what spec is there for her in the Olys if Nats goes well?

I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. Especially not on this thread where I have already got my head handed to me for using the wrong smiley.

Evidently, if you want to congratuate someone for posting a perceptive insight, or for making a prediction which subsequently comes true, you are not supposed to use this smiley.

That's sarcastic and mean.

Instead, you are supposed to use this one. That's sincere and good.

Also, this one is a little bit on the bad side. This is OK on FSU, but has a negative connotation on Golden Skate (or is it the other way around?)

I will just stick to this from now on.

:yes:

 

[Mathman]

"While Cohen would like to compete at two ISU Grand Prix events this fall, she will have to wait for the official ISU event assignments in June to see if she receives her wish."

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090507&content_id=64564&vkey=ice_news

Thanks for the clarification. Here is the whole quote, to the end of the article.

While Cohen would like to compete at two ISU Grand Prix events this fall, she will have to wait for the official ISU event assignments in June to see if she receives her wish. (U.S. Figure Skating can assign her one of its three ladies' slots at Skate America, held from Nov. 13-15 in Lake Placid, if it chooses). Regardless, as a 2006 Olympic medalist she is eligible for a bye to the 2010 U.S. Figure Skating Championships. At that point, the path to Vancouver becomes a bit more difficult: just two ladies will qualify to compete for the U.S.

Cohen will finish up a skating tour in Vancouver on May 12, after that, she plans a short vacation to rest a foot injury before settling down to work with Arutunian.

"Actually, I don't even know if I'm going to go anywhere but home yet," Cohen said. "I've got to get ready, start the process."

This sets up an interesting scenario. If Sasha begins training in June, she may prefer to do Skate America and Skate Canada (the last two GPs) as her two events. Would Skate Canada invite her, or would they protect Joannie by inviting a lesser threat instead? Would Sasha want to do the GP Final? That's a lot of skating for anyone, but if Sasha is used to doing a show every day, why not?

 

[Particle Man]

Would Skate Canada invite her, or would they protect Joannie by inviting a lesser threat instead? Would Sasha want to do the GP Final? That's a lot of skating for anyone, but if Sasha is used to doing a show every day, why not?

3 US ladies would be going to Skate Canada, no? I doubt they'd get the luxury of having all of them be pushovers. Joannie has also been pretty strong so they are probably more comfortable than usual. I might summarize the US ladies (or at least current perceptions of the US ladies) threats as follows (threat scale of 1-10)

9: Sasha, Rachael, Caroline
8: Mirai, Alissa
7.5: Ashley, Kimmie
6: Emily, Alexe G., Angela M, Brittney R.
(whoever else)

(Note I am not sure which of the newest girls like Brittney, Alexe and Angela will even be assigned, or to how many GP events, I haven't paid much attention.) Sasha probably won't be perceived as more of a threat than Rachael or Caroline until she proves she is actually "back" in terms of performance. And assuming USFSA cares about the GP final (not sure if they do) I could see assignments being loosely based on the above list, i.e. each event other than Skate America might have EITHER Sasha, Rachael or Caroline, then the others added on.

As for Sasha caring about the GP final -- I doubt it! She just blew off Worlds in her hometown, when she has no Worlds gold medal. The GP events will be not much more to her than practice for the Olympic attempt. Besides, she already has a GPF gold. _I_ would love for her to care about GPF and Worlds, but I pretty much know she doesn't. That MAY change if she starts getting some positive feelings from being back in competition. Maybe it will rekindle something... not likely but who knows.

You also made me realize something else... in both of her last seasons, 04/05 and 05/06, Sasha attended only ONE GP event in total. I know there were injuries involved, but it seems like she doesn't make much of an effort to attend GP events if she isn't 100%. In fact I was at Skate America '04 in Pittsburgh, both Michelle and Sasha were supposed to come, and neither did. That was depressing. I hope Sasha doesn't blow it off again this year, especially considering how far Lake Placid is for me...

 

[i love to skate]

You also made me realize something else... in both of her last seasons, 04/05 and 05/06, Sasha attended only ONE GP event in total. I know there were injuries involved, but it seems like she doesn't make much of an effort to attend GP events if she isn't 100%. In fact I was at Skate America '04 in Pittsburgh, both Michelle and Sasha were supposed to come, and neither did. That was depressing. I hope Sasha doesn't blow it off again this year, especially considering how far Lake Placid is for me...

If Sasha does end up blowing off the GP series I think it is a pretty lame attempt at a comeback. After three years out of competitive skating she needs all the competition experience she can get, IMO.

 

[Sylvia]

(Note I am not sure which of the newest girls like Brittney, Alexe and Angela will even be assigned, or to how many GP events, I haven't paid much attention.)

Brittney Rizo and Katrina Hacker have announced they will not be competing this season (both are off to college in the fall): http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090501&content_id=64386&vkey=ice_news

chuckm has outlined the U.S. ladies eligible for the GP in the Grand Prix selection guidelines thread: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27734&page=14

 

[Tinymavy15]

is Emily planning on competing on the GP and senior nats? I thought she said she was going to stick with Collegiate events?

 

[R.D.]

If Sasha does end up blowing off the GP series I think it is a pretty lame attempt at a comeback. After three years out of competitive skating she needs all the competition experience she can get, IMO.

Lame?

How about no attempt at all?

(To be fair to her, she seems to know that she needs the experience, though.)

At this point, the only thing that can be said with some degree of confidence is that she'll wind up with SA (although that's not a 100% guarantee). She wants OLY and SA is just a stepping stone. Nationals would be the qualifier for everybody but maybe she sees that as a stepping stone as well. :indiff:

She has pulled out of the last two SA's she's been assigned to. I see no reason to believe that (esp. being out 3 years) she'll make it to this one. If she does then we can include her in speculation. The thing to do is wait for the official GP assignments, then we know what the matchups are.

 

[Mathman]

What I was getting at is Olympics are supposed to be for amatuer athletes, right?

The Olympics "went pro" in 1984, when they removed the restrictions about making money for the main Olympic sport, track and field.

According to sports historian Kristi Yamaguchi in Skating for Dummies (this is true -- great read ), the original distinction between amateur and professional -- and the reason why amateur athletics was considered the more "noble" -- goes back to class divisions in Europe, and especially England.

The nobility liked to dabble in athletic games among their peers. "Professional" meant the lower classes that had to work for a living. Since it wouldn't do to have the nobility mixing with the lower classes, amateur and professional sporting events were kept strictly separate.

This class distiction gradually gave way over the coiurse of the twentieth century. Nowadays I don't think there is anything particularly "noble" about amateurism -- and almost all Olympic sports have come to agree.

 

[Particle Man]

That's something I forgot to factor in previously, that Sasha backed out on her previous 2 Skate Americas. That HAS to affect their decision, don't you think? Unless they don't care if they yet again sell tickets using her name, and end up with a stadium full of disappointed people. Hmmm. I'd still say there's a 75% chance of her being assigned there, but I wouldn't put it too much higher than that.

Considering how hard it is to get to Lake Placid, I'm definitely waiting until the actual assignments to spend any money. Fun fact -- from Pittsburgh, using the fastest transportation possible for each, you can actually get to Spokane, WA in slightly less time than you can to Lake Placid, NY. :frown2: (Well, unless I had a Cessna with long-range fuel tanks and like, landed it on a highway. )

 

[R.D.]

Unless they don't care if they yet again sell tickets using her name, and end up with a stadium full of disappointed people. Hmmm.

Considering what they did to the National Meet to appease NBC, inconveniencing several fans, I certainly wouldn't put it past them to do that. They might assign her even if deep down, they all but know she won't be there anyway. Besides, guess who's televising SA?