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Sasha's LP music
- Thread starter nymkfan51
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
mzheng said:
If we are comparing career long records, no one can deny Michelle's record as being the very best in modern times, for skaters who are still competing.
If we are talking about recent history, which IMO is an important component of "what might we expect next season" then I would say that Irina and Sasha and even a couple of others have seen more international podium exposure "lately."
BUT - I hope MK comes back with the vigor that the recent practice reports suggest. I hope the same for the TT interview where she spoke positively about Shiz's progress and state of mind coming into the season. While I haven't heard any rumors or anything about Sasha or Irina (or several others') practices at this stage, I hope they all come out with skates blazing!!
DG
Frannkly speaking, I love the choreograpgy of Michelle's Manderine. It's so different and fresh than her other programs. I know it's done by Peter Oppergard and feel he is a great choreographer. The music is not that pleasant. I guess this is the major reason that Michelle did not use the program for that year's national and world.
AS for Bolero, I feel it's one of the worst programs Michelle has ever had. The choreography just reused her 2002, 03, and 04's programs, plus a kind of new footwork.
Sasha's Hernando Hideaway is her best programs. Unfortunately it's not suitable for competition.
AS for Bolero, I feel it's one of the worst programs Michelle has ever had. The choreography just reused her 2002, 03, and 04's programs, plus a kind of new footwork.
Sasha's Hernando Hideaway is her best programs. Unfortunately it's not suitable for competition.
Doggygirl said:
You completely missed point of my post!
It's about the 'safe' someone implied earlier. The quote from Plush I made just to show my point and in a way his point, if you are currently not in the top position and you don't take the risk, you might never reach that top. If you had been there once or twice then you can afford some 'safe' way while you pacing yourself. That's the difference. All the champions had take the risk (more or less) in the way leading them into the top!
My opinion is that Michelle is going to have a very hard time skating to TT's choreo if TT put everything and the kitchen sink as she normally does in a program. Shizuka is a superior skater to Kwan and she wasn't able to pull of the difficulty that TT put in her programs. Ilia Kulik also had a lot of problems when TT choreographed a really difficult Rome and Juliet program for him. I just don't think that TT thinks about whether the skater can actually do the program or not.
As for judges taking off points for Sasha using R&J.. quite frankly the only time a judge doesn't like an old program and takes off points is if the judge wants to put someone else ahead. There have been plenty of skaters who reskated programs year after year (ahem Viktor Petrenko, Nancy Kerrigan, Katarina Witt etc) and the old programs didn't hurt them. The only time the judges said the old program hurt the skaters was with S&P's seemingly "perfect" program. The judges should have just said that they didn't like the program verses they took off for using an old program because I really don't think judges deduct for using an old program.
As for judges taking off points for Sasha using R&J.. quite frankly the only time a judge doesn't like an old program and takes off points is if the judge wants to put someone else ahead. There have been plenty of skaters who reskated programs year after year (ahem Viktor Petrenko, Nancy Kerrigan, Katarina Witt etc) and the old programs didn't hurt them. The only time the judges said the old program hurt the skaters was with S&P's seemingly "perfect" program. The judges should have just said that they didn't like the program verses they took off for using an old program because I really don't think judges deduct for using an old program.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
To me, that is a very insightful comment. I agree. That music is not very pleasant. Neither was the Red Violin, the Song of the Black Swan, or for that matter, Bolero. (Bolero is supposed to represent the repetitive din of the industrial age.)jesslily said:
This thread is making me focus in on why I have misgivings about Sasha's music. It's too pleasant.
To me, that's what Sasha needs, too. A Lori Nichol to help her push her musical boundaries.Jesslily said:
MM
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Playing it safe is not what makes Plushenko an incredible competitor!!!
He has saId only Joubert and Lambiel may give him serious competition because they TAKE RISKS The question is will Buttle take the risk? Evan take the risk? Johnny take the risk? e-man take the risk?
It's an Olympic year, if you don't take the risk now, it's four more years before you get another chance..
Michelle should have learned her lesson in 98 so she should now take the risk! The 3x3(s) will be risky and coming out on to the ice as a Flamenco Dancer is also risky uless it is done well and not in the stereotype fashion.
If Kimmie Meissner gets to Torino, she will take the risk but then she has nothing to lose. I think Emilie and Bebe will too if they get there. I don't think the Japanese ladies will. Joannie and Susanna may not take the risks but want to skate an indelible performance on the ice for 2010. What more can Irina do? I hope she is not resting on her 2005 laurels.
Sasha, our main topic here: She's using safe strategy but are we sure this R&J will stay through the Olys. There could be a change before that. Just thinking out loud.
Joe
He has saId only Joubert and Lambiel may give him serious competition because they TAKE RISKS The question is will Buttle take the risk? Evan take the risk? Johnny take the risk? e-man take the risk?
It's an Olympic year, if you don't take the risk now, it's four more years before you get another chance..
Michelle should have learned her lesson in 98 so she should now take the risk! The 3x3(s) will be risky and coming out on to the ice as a Flamenco Dancer is also risky uless it is done well and not in the stereotype fashion.
If Kimmie Meissner gets to Torino, she will take the risk but then she has nothing to lose. I think Emilie and Bebe will too if they get there. I don't think the Japanese ladies will. Joannie and Susanna may not take the risks but want to skate an indelible performance on the ice for 2010. What more can Irina do? I hope she is not resting on her 2005 laurels.
Sasha, our main topic here: She's using safe strategy but are we sure this R&J will stay through the Olys. There could be a change before that. Just thinking out loud.
Joe
Michelle has been making great living by not turning pro, by not winning Olympic gold meda;,and by doing what she feels comfortable and also sort of challenging to her physical ability. Her christma, her comsistency and her love for skating have won the hearts of judges and skating fans. I feel she does not need to put in two sets of triple triple combos to get ahead. If she did not land them all, it would make her program messier.
It seems that Sasha is going back to the time that just she and Mr. Nicks decide the music and do the choreography together. In her journal she talked about that Nicks let her do some elements that they are going to put into the program. I don'y know how much time Nicks has to look into all sorts of music options. So I guess Sasha does not have someone like Lori Nicole to expand her music choices. As for the soundtrack of R&J, it's really a great piece for Sasha who has great extention to skate to.
Mathman said:
Possibly. But we as fans can sit here and debate over and over again about what these skaters really need. She could consult a "Lori Nichol" and get a program done to a different piece of music, but who knows? Maybe she wouldn't be comfortable doing so or skating to a song she didn't really enjoy would impact her performance negatively. As I say before, this comes from fans' wishes, and nothing else. Just because MK was able to do it doesn't mean SC would. And now that MK is "by herself", she is going the familiar route as well. (FYI, this is not to defend those who choose tried and true pieces, but just to point out something that MAY have been an issue in the decision process.) On the flip side though, there are literally thousands of different tunes out there, and she is bound to like at least one of them...
However, departing from the norm and choosing different music has its risks, too. By going with the tried and true at least you have music that the judges are familiar with (or should be anyway) and that they can relate to. And you gain extra points if you can make it your own. I THINK (this is the key word) that this is why you don't see a lot of "original" music choices out there. Whereas if you go out of your league it's taking a risk venturing into the unknown. But, the flip side is, as we all know, sometimes taking risks (within reason) can be good. In fact, it's imperative to take the right risks (like going for a 3-3 instead of a 3-2) especially in an Olympic season. MK, SC, are you reading this?
I don't know whether it was here or on another forum that someone commented that a fiery, more dramatic song is a better choice for an Olympic season than a slower, more mellow one. I say it doesn't really matter in the end. Sure, a more upbeat piece will turn more heads, but if you haven't got the moves (or the emotions) to back it up, it makes no difference. Whereas if you can take any song and choreograph it and perform it to its potential, it will be amazing no matter what it is. This is why I think Cohen can get away with this and not "fall in the standings". If she can back up her music choice with some jumps (landed ones preferably
) and some moves, which she certainly has, she should be fine. JMO, of course. Feel free to comment if you like.
mzheng said:
How reliable is this source?
Anyway, let's assume for now that it is 100% true. 75% I'd say is still pretty shaky. that's 3 out of 4 tries, or 6 out of 8 when there's no pressure on. But what if you factor in all that? That number may plummet to 40%, and at that point you don't even think about taking that big plunge in competition.
HOWEVER- on the bright side, if she's looking to go somewhere with this I give her credit for trying. Really. Far too many skaters (including her I feel) have been conservative and sticking to the status quo. No one in recent Olympics has been able to win by playing it safe. No, not at all. Hopefully Kwan is also working on stepping it up. She'd better.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I have to revise my Olympic predictions.
Michelle:
2A = 3.3
3Lz+3T+2Lo = 11.5
3F = 5.5
3S+ 3L = 9.5
2A = 3.6
3F+2T = 7.5
3T =4.4
Total jump elements = 45.3
Irina:
3Lz+3Lo = 11.0
3S+2Lo+2T = 7.3
3Lo = 5.0
3Lz+2Lo = 7.5
3F = 6.1
3T = 4.4
2 =3.6
Total = 44.9
Sasha:
4S = 9.5
3Lz+2T = 7.3
3F+2T+2T = 8.1
3Lo = 5.0
3F = 5.5
3T+3S (seq) = 7.5
2A = 3.6
Total = 46.5
Michelle:
2A = 3.3
3Lz+3T+2Lo = 11.5
3F = 5.5
3S+ 3L = 9.5
2A = 3.6
3F+2T = 7.5
3T =4.4
Total jump elements = 45.3
Irina:
3Lz+3Lo = 11.0
3S+2Lo+2T = 7.3
3Lo = 5.0
3Lz+2Lo = 7.5
3F = 6.1
3T = 4.4
2 =3.6
Total = 44.9
Sasha:
4S = 9.5
3Lz+2T = 7.3
3F+2T+2T = 8.1
3Lo = 5.0
3F = 5.5
3T+3S (seq) = 7.5
2A = 3.6
Total = 46.5
But, the more I read, and the more I think, the more skeptical I get. I really don't know about this quad thing. Didn't the same poster say MK was training 2 3-3's?
Plus, even if it's true, what's the likelihood that one of these will end up being attempted (much less landed) at a competition near you? I say slim to none.
Plus, even if it's true, what's the likelihood that one of these will end up being attempted (much less landed) at a competition near you? I say slim to none.
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Not to be too cynical, but I think you should be skeptical. If you go back through her journals, she writes on July 27th that she is basically working on conditioning and that she was not in full training yet. On August 15th she wrote that she was just beginning to put all the LP elements together. If she is already doing full run throughs with a landed quad, she ought to give the men some lessons because it would be incredible. This is no offense to Sasha, but rather the source that is posting this information. Maybe Sasha has been really secretive about training the quad. Maybe she has been training it all along, even after writing that she stopped training it (before Worlds). Possible? Maybe. Probable? I doubt it. It's possible she will mention quad practice in her next journal (which should be any time now), but until then I will just believe that she is getting in shape and trying to get her choreography down pat for the next season.Red Dog said:
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