Should ISU take a stance on Yagudin's insults against other athletes?

[elbkup]

Calling a male skater “feminine” and no better than a woman? As though it were an insult.
Far from being brave, Yags looks like a whiny child when he says such a thing, and appears to have not progressed beyond a five year old's mentality with schoolyard insults, and deserves no respect there so it’s true, he is only showing his own ignorance and lack of class.

But saying someone should die? Every Russian speaker that I know has said Yags said Adam was “Earth’s mistake” because of his support for trans rights. And because he was gay.

At this point, he has simply lost his ever loving mind.:whack:

He apparently never advanced beyond sandbox... Wonder what his home life is really like? Geeeeezzz..

 

[el henry]

The ISU code of ethics sets forth standards for members and prohibits discrimination. While it doesn’t apply directly to television broadcasters, it does apply broadly to “all persons who involve themselves with the ISU in any capacity,” which includes ISU members, such as the Russian Fed, and presumably through them to Yagudin, since they hired or approved him as a broadcaster.

Persons subject to the Code “shall:
- exemplify, by their conduct and by their written and oral communications, the highest standards of honesty, respect, fairness, fair play, ethical behavior, and sporting attitude and shall not act in any manner which might damage the reputation of the ISU or the ISU sports;
- inspire internal and public confidence in the fairness, honesty and integrity of the ISU, the ISU sports and all who act under the auspices of the ISU sports.”

It would be very easy for me to argue that Yagudin has violated the code.

https://www.isu.org/docman-document...munications/19025-isu-communication-2215/file

The very first words of any law professor: read the statute

This does put another "spin" (so to speak) on it. I doubt the ISU will do anything, (and I know you weren't arguing they would) because they're scared. But I agree with the posters who have said to at least issue a statement that homophobia, transphobia, and racism have no place in the ISU or its member agencies would be a start.

I know they can't stop something from talking like they haven't progressed past first grade, although that would be nice.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I've really been dreading entering this thread, but do commentators actually go to the competitions to watch live, or do they watch it through screens like most of us?
Because if so, couldn't the ISU deny him entry to competitions as a commentator? Not saying they would.

Depends on the competition and the media outlet.

 

[Mathman]

...couldn't the ISU deny him entry to competitions as a commentator?

I don't see how. Commentators are hired by television networks, right? I think it would be up to the public to write to the network and say, if you don't get this jerk off the air I am going to boycott your sponsors' products.

As a legal matter, doesn't the ISU already have a statement about, "We don't discriminate against anyone. All are welcome to participate in all ISU activities regardless of etc., etc., etc.?" If a former skater says something foolish (or if he robs a bank or commits a murder) can't the ISU Secretary just "disavow any knowledge of his mission"?

 

[lesnar001]

I apologize if you felt lumped.
What I was trying to say was that a lot of people were outraged by what David said but feel that what Yagudin has said is fine. To me they are not the same things at all. David's remarks are dumb and rude and show that he does not understand the IJS and that Alina's program was maximizing the points and contributed to her being so successful. What Yagudin has said about Jason crosses lines. If David had talked about a skater being "butch" I would be as upset with him and I am with Yagudin. I don't care that one is Russian and one is Canadian. I care that people use their voice to promote intolerance.

If you were personally insulted by what I said I do apologize. It was not aimed at you and I do know that some people can see the difference in the these two types of comments.

Thank you.

I agree that Yagudin has crossed the line regarding Jason. If he had just kept his rants to whining about lack of quads that would be run of the mill rudeness, which makes him look petty. But references to "lipstick" and calling him a f***ot is outright disgusting and uncalled for. What he said about Adam Rippon is even worse and shows him to be outright homophobic.

 

[TallyT]

I agree that Yagudin has crossed the line regarding Jason. If he had just kept his rants to whining about lack of quads that would be run of the mill rudeness, which makes him look petty. But references to "lipstick" and calling him a f***ot is outright disgusting and uncalled for.

Also decidedly peculiar. He chooses to directly equate not doing quads to being gay, which - someone should sit him down and explain in simple terms - is not exactly how it works.

 

[KOBOT37]

I don't see how. Commentators are hired by television networks, right? I think it would be up to the public to write to the network and say, if you don't get this jerk off the air I am going to boycott your sponsors' products.

I love how westerners seem to see Russia as sort of Western country anyway, go,do it !

 

[Skatesocs]

I love how westerners seem to see Russia as sort of Western country anyway, go,do it !

No one sees Russia as a Western country. It's you instead who tried to claim that Tonya Harding wouldn't be able to work with Eteri because she's a Western woman, whereas Russians like Zagitova and Tursynbayeva have "Eastern Values".

I don't see why you seem to think we don't get what will or won't happen in Russia based off this. We do. We don't care. We are saying it's awful that nothing will likely happen, and that maybe something should, and that it is nothing to be proud of no matter what you seem to believe. I know human rights seem like a vague, oppressive concept if you're stuck in a regressive regime. I will make sure to not point and laugh when whichever way you live is deemed "propaganda" there and ends with you carted off somewhere, as you seem so keen to tell the rest of us. The others here are too nice to let you know that.

 

[Mathman]

I love how westerners seem to see Russia as sort of Western country anyway, go,do it !

Are you saying that in Russia th ISU has the power to remove Yagudin as a commentator, although they do not have that power in "western countries"?

Or are you saying that in Russia no one cares what "the people" think or whom they write letters to?

 

[KOBOT37]

No one sees Russia as a Western country. It's you instead who tried to claim that Tonya Harding wouldn't be able to work with Eteri because she's a Western woman, whereas Russians like Zagitova and Tursynbayeva have "Eastern Values".

Regarding to Elisabeth, both her parents are non Russians and she isn't competing for Russia, you can obviously call her russian but it still won't make it true

And yeah, Alina (who is btw, technically a Muslim) comes from culture with is more influenced from eastern values than Moscow or SpB and there is huge(even bigger than Russia-West divide) difference between mentality of Alina and average westerner (let alone Tonya ). You can ask Eteri herself what mentality she likes her students to have

but what all of this have to do with the thread ?

I don't see why you seem to think we don't get what will or won't happen in Russia based off this. We do.

looking at few comments here, it doesn't look like you do.

and that maybe something should

Once again, it's not up to you to decide what should or shouldn't happen in Russia.

Russians will somehow manage to take care of their country without your help, don't worry.

 

[KOBOT37]

Or are you saying that in Russia no one cares what "the people" think or whom they write letters to?

yes.

Sorry(not really) but Outrage mobs don't work there

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Also decidedly peculiar. He chooses to directly equate not doing quads to being gay, which - someone should sit him down and explain in simple terms - is not exactly how it works.

I mean Timothy Goebels is biggest example

 

[Tolstoj]

I dont think Yagudin has anything to do with Russian skating federation - he is not the person who represent it, in matter of fact he is not the person who represented his opinion while being hired by the channel to commentate on it. He represented his own opinion on some internet platform, the same as Adam Rippon did, and their 'messages' should not have more weight than your or mine message or messages of any other person on this forum. Just because is someone Yagudin, his messages shouldn't be taken as more 'valuable' than any other messages of any other person in the world for that matter. Why should we care in first place about what Yagudin thinks?

Because he said some of those things during ISU competitions, while being there.

Like if he wasn't a commentator, just tweeting these things, besides some backlash, no one would have cared, we've seen homophobic statements recently even from Bestemianova, this is not entirely new and mostly due to the anti-gay propaganda in their country.

But the fact that he uses the exposure of an international ISU event, to send these messages and publicly trash talk and insult skaters while they are competing, that's not acceptable in my opinion and in a way it makes ISU and the host countries unintentionally involved by allowing this.

Respect for the athletes always.

I recall Elena Isinbayeva saying back in Sochi 2014 that we shouldn't criticize Russia's anti-gay law cause we were guests and should respect the rules of the country even if you don't like them. Well now i ask Yagudin the same when he attends these international events, you're a guest and rules are very different from those in Russia.

I've really been dreading entering this thread, but do commentators actually go to the competitions to watch live, or do they watch it through screens like most of us?
Because if so, couldn't the ISU deny him entry to competitions as a commentator? Not saying they would.

Not at all events but at the big ones such as Worlds, Europeans, GPF they go most of the time, you can see their photos on social media, videos from fans, and even mentions from the other colleagues. And there is nothing wrong, actually it's good commentators can watch performances live cause it's always different than watching it from home, at the same time you have to be respectful and don't abuse of this position to send these unrelated offensive messages.

 

[karne]

I knew there would be some who would defend his grotesque behaviour, and I am entirely unsurprised as to which posters they were.

At least now we know his true colours. Hopefully his comments will bite him in the behind.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

https://cs7.pikabu.ru/post_img/2018/07/21/5/1532153900132469080.jpg

this,for example.

and make no mistake, around 90% of Russians would gladly go to all out war to avoid pic mentioned above ever happening in Russia.

This situation is not necessarily a gay or transgender propaganda. How i'm dressed up is completely different thing of what i'm teaching the children. And if i'm dressed up in a style of many of other female teachers in the world, and if i'm teaching the children the things required for the class, i wouldn't call that a propaganda. How is that more of propaganda than dressing as a clown or as a santa clause (which we frequently see in a kindergarden)?

 

[Alegria]

I've really been dreading entering this thread, but do commentators actually go to the competitions to watch live, or do they watch it through screens like most of us?
Because if so, couldn't the ISU deny him entry to competitions as a commentator? Not saying they would.

Yes, they can ban him from getting accreditation.

And I want to add. that ISU MUST react. One commentator could ruin all efforts that ISU made. Viewers can be easily manipulated.
Or ISU just had to acknowledge, that they just sell TV rights and don't care about the rest.

 

[ruga]

This situation is not necessarily a gay or transgender propaganda. How i'm dressed up is completely different think of what i'm teaching the children. And if i'm dressed up in a style of many of other female teachers in the world, and if i'm teaching the children the things required for the class, i wouldn't call that a propaganda. How is that more of propaganda than dressing as a clown or as a santa clause (which we frequently see in a kindergarden)?

OT but: adults see it as men dressed as women and propagating the lifestyle of opposite gender to kids. However, through the eyes of the children, drag queens are not men, but fairies, princesses or other magical beings and I'm not sure they even realize or care about their human identity. I do understand that such things can look weird, but I'm not sure that kids will be more or less LGBT accepting after it.

There is a similar law in my country, albeit not as harsh. No one knows what LGBT content ("propaganda") is either - the level of outrage depends on personal views.

The only instance of suspected propaganda law taking place in Russia is when Deniss Vasiljevs wasn't invited to Gala despite getting pretty high place at Rostelecom (5th or 6th). His Gala was to a song 'Two Men in Love'. But that's only fans' speculation - maybe organizers just didn't want to invite him.

 

[KOBOT37]

This situation is not necessarily a gay or transgender propaganda. How i'm dressed up is completely different thing of what i'm teaching the children. And if i'm dressed up in a style of many of other female teachers in the world, and if i'm teaching the children the things required for the class, i wouldn't call that a propaganda. How is that more of propaganda than dressing as a clown or as a santa clause (which we frequently see in a kindergarden)?

Sure

Just like wearing cap with Swastika on it isn't necessarily a Nazi propaganda after all, it's old religious symbol, how is it any different than wearing a cross (for example)

P.S

I knew there would be some who would defend his grotesque behaviour, and I am entirely unsurprised as to which posters they were.

At least now we know his true colours. Hopefully his comments will bite him in the behind.

Nice

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Sure

Just like wearing cap with Swastika on it isn't necessarily a Nazi propaganda after all, it's old religious symbol, how is it any different than wearing a cross (for exampe)

The problem with your comparasion is that people with a swastika were part of the activities in the past which included a war, and swastika symbolizes that war. So, using a symbol of it may have negative connotation. Opposite of that, a cross isn't associate with the people who were part of Crusade, but with believing in God. Being dressed as a woman in first place symbolize women (or femininity) etc etc If i'm wearing a hippie symbol - peace, does that define me as a hippie or i can be just for peace? If you're starting from the premise that some transgender or me with a hippie symbol will necessarily have a negative impact on you and your children or will do some kind of propaganda - that is on you, but that premise is not sustainable for me in reality we leave in. Being a 'good' or 'bad' person, or having a good or bad impact is not defined by 'the look', nationality, religious affiliation, by some culture, or sub-culture.

 

[Sofia]

What Yagudin is doing isn't that much different from what some current politicians are doing: catering to people's ignorance and prejudice in order to secure popularity, taking advantage of division in society to benefit themselves. That's the most vicious part of their acts. The difference is just that he can't bear all of the consequences and caves in.

That lame and hypocritical apology may well be enough for him to get away with it in Russia, and I'm sure his post as commentator on national TV is safe as ever. His violation of the ISU Code of Ethics doesn't mean much in reality as it's a non-compulsory guideline, and excuses can be readily made.

The best ISU can do is perhaps have a talk with the relevant Russian broadcasting partner which employs him and has direct power over him.