Should ISU take a stance on Yagudin's insults against other athletes?

[plushyfan]

It doesn't
There is even a law in place, propaganda of non-traditional sexual relationships among minors is not allowed

The law was made by the Russian. I never understood "propaganda" . If they want to live as the heteros is that propaganda? Have you ever been in Germany, Netherland, Spain and many more western countries? They are happy, I have seen in Amsterdam or Utrecht, there was a rainbow flag in the yard of the kindergarten...They learn the acceptance in very early age. They have gay teachers, etc. Everybody is happy, calm and nice in that country!

 

[Baron Vladimir]

It doesn't
There is even a law in place, propaganda of non-traditional sexual relationships among minors is not allowed

Propaganda of any kind should not be allowed among children (and what he did in his 'apologie' is by that logic a propaganda too)...

 

[plushyfan]

Propaganda of any kind should not be allowed among children

What is gay propaganda? Can you explain it?

 

[lesnar001]

You guys lost your minds when David Pellitier said they could take a bathroom break for the first 2 minutes of Alina's program. Like seriously lost your minds. And by the way this always said more about his not appreciating good spinning and footwork rather than anything to do with him being anti Alina.

Excuse Me. The three posters that I see defending Yagudin's homophobic statements were not even GS members at that time.

And the people that mentioned the "bathroom break" comment before said it in reference to Yagudin's insulting comments about Jason Brown's skating. Not in reference to his homophobic rant against Adam Rippon or calling Jason a homophobic slur.

As someone who did not like Pelletier's comments at that time, I don't like being lumped in as either "losing my mind" or "defending Yagudin".

And I'm certainly smart enought to know that wishing Adam Rippon dead is not the same as complaining about backloaded programs.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

What is gay propaganda? Can you explain it?

Some may argue that what Adam did is a kind of propaganda. If i was donating money to some organization i would not necessarily speaking about it 'in the public', cause i don't see any point of it instead to promote myself and/or my 'political' views. However, in Adam case, the information is not necessarily of a political nature and he didn't speak about it in the kindergarden, and if one think that what Adam did is a propaganda, then what Yagudin said in his 'apologie' is a propaganda too, so...

 

[icestorm]

What is gay propaganda? Can you explain it?

According to article 6.21 of Code Of Administrative Offences Of The Russian Federation it is

dissemination of information aimed at the formation of non-traditional sexual attitudes in minors, the attractiveness of non-traditional sexual relations, a distorted idea of ​​the social equivalence of traditional and non-traditional sexual relations, or the imposition of information on non-traditional sexual relations, causing interest in such relations

(google translate)

 

[nussnacker]

Excuse Me. The three posters that I see defending Yagudin's homophobic statements were not even GS members at that time.

And the people that mentioned the "bathroom break" comment before said it in reference to Yagudin's insulting comments about Jason Brown's skating. Not in reference to his homophobic rant against Adam Rippon or calling Jason a homophobic slur.

As someone who did not like Pelletier's comments at that time, I don't like being lumped in as either "losing my mind" or "defending Yagudin".

And I'm certainly smart enought to know that wishing Adam Rippon dead is not the same as complaining about backloaded programs.

On point.

 

[plushyfan]

According to article 6.21 of Code Of Administrative Offences Of The Russian Federation it is

It's stupidity. I know you have explanation in the law. But explain me how the propaganda looks like in civil life among the children? What are the gay doing?

 

[plushyfan]

Some may argue that what Adam did is a kind of propaganda. If i was donating money to some organization i would not necessarily speaking about it 'in the public', cause i don't see any point of it instead to promote myself and/or my 'political' views. However, in Adam case, the information is not necessarily of a political nature and he didn't speak about it in the kindergarden, and if one think that what Adam did is a propaganda, then what Yagudin replied is a propaganda too, so...

It depends on the parents. I told about these things to my children very early and they didn't become gays just tolerant persons. They have gay friends and there is a homosexaul married couple among them. I'm sure they will rise their children with tolerancy.

 

[Mawwerg]

In my opinion it's unacceptable to insult other people because they do not share the same vision on the world as you. Yagudin has the right to not like some kinds of sexual minorities but it doesn't excuse posting such horrible message. Rippon donated to the project which supports Black Trans people - great, but why he acts like it gives him permission to insult other person?

It seems to me the people are becoming more and more intolerable to each other and it disappoints me.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

It depends on the parents. I told about these things to my children very early and they didn't become gays just tolerant persons. They have gay friends and there is a homosexaul pair among them. I'm sure they will rise their children with tolerancy because to be gay that can not be learned.

To tell your children that something exist in the world is not a propaganda. It is just a good parenthood :thumbsup: To call your children for some kind of action/behavior for that 'political' purpose would be a propaganda. And i think that children in the period where their cognition is in early development and when it is easy to manipulate with their cognitive (and emotional) system (until let's say 13/14 yo) should not be part of any kind of propaganda, including gay or anti-gay ones. Now, i'm not saying that every action of people/organizations is necessarily a gay propaganda and vice versa, so topic:

 

[Seven Sisters]

Not to make light of this, but—

Yagudin seems to miss the days when the ability to jump quads was what “made a manly man.” It must kill him that 13-year-old girls are doing it now

 

[ancientpeas]

Excuse Me. The three posters that I see defending Yagudin's homophobic statements were not even GS members at that time.

And the people that mentioned the "bathroom break" comment before said it in reference to Yagudin's insulting comments about Jason Brown's skating. Not in reference to his homophobic rant against Adam Rippon or calling Jason a homophobic slur.

As someone who did not like Pelletier's comments at that time, I don't like being lumped in as either "losing my mind" or "defending Yagudin".

And I'm certainly smart enought to know that wishing Adam Rippon dead is not the same as complaining about backloaded programs.

I apologize if you felt lumped.
What I was trying to say was that a lot of people were outraged by what David said but feel that what Yagudin has said is fine. To me they are not the same things at all. David's remarks are dumb and rude and show that he does not understand the IJS and that Alina's program was maximizing the points and contributed to her being so successful. What Yagudin has said about Jason crosses lines. If David had talked about a skater being "butch" I would be as upset with him and I am with Yagudin. I don't care that one is Russian and one is Canadian. I care that people use their voice to promote intolerance.

If you were personally insulted by what I said I do apologize. It was not aimed at you and I do know that some people can see the difference in the these two types of comments.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I apologize if you felt lumped.
What I was trying to say was that a lot of people were outraged by what David said but feel that what Yagudin has said is fine. To me they are not the same things at all. David's remarks are dumb and rude and show that he does not understand the IJS and that Alina's program was maximizing the points and contributed to her being so successful. What Yagudin has said about Jason crosses lines. If David had talked about a skater being "butch" I would be as upset with him and I am with Yagudin. I don't care that one is Russian and one is Canadian. I care that people use their voice to promote intolerance.

If you were personally insulted by what I said I do apologize. It was not aimed at you and I do know that some people can see the difference in the these two types of comments.

You just need to have in mind that words have different (emotional) connotation across different generations, cultures and sub-cultures. When my straight friends are using words like fem and butch they don't mean anything negative about the people they want to describe. In todays culture word crazy can mean something positive, when 50 years ago had only a negative connotation. I don't know what Yagudin said about Jason, i really don't follow his comments nor i've found him as a knowledgeable person which opinion should be heard, but if i'm saying for example that Guillaume way of skating is, among the other things, fem, i certainly don't mean anything negative about him. Actually, he is my favorite male ice dancer in history of the sport.

 

[Tolstoj]

I just thought that this showed why S/P should have lost to B/S because if the only thing that matters to David is jumps then he has missed the point. His comments were dumb. He is french Canadian and as someone who lives right on the Quebec border and has had french friends all my life they are a more blunt version of Canadians. English Canadians tend to dance around and we are often trying to avoid conflict and offending people but we can end up just sounding like we are wishywashy. Americans and French Canadians are nearly always more straight forward in how they speak.

Honestly they were on the same level of Tarasova and Trankov's mean comments on Duhamel and Radford.

It sounded a bit harsh but there was some truth to it, lack of balance (even in regards to jumps distribution) is an issue, and other commentators criticized that program a lot as well (the german ones from Eurosport in particular). Still he didn't attack or insulted the athlete in any regard.

Originally i didn't even take Yagudin's comments too seriously cause i thought they were only related to the lack of quads, i recall even Tarasova saying sometimes that a quadless program is a ladies program which is also very harsh but to an extent it is still related to the sport. Then i found out it goes beyond that and it's all due to homophobia.

I've to say while don't know if actions will be taken after this, it seems really odd to me that everyone besides us fans, so far have decided to let it slide.
I was hoping in a statement from ISU against racism, homophobia and hatred cause these are not the values this sport should promote in my opinion, and i feel if you don't respond, this will only continue.

 

[TallyT]

This is all, sadly and ultimately, pointless. Yagudin is an ignorant and vulgar bigot, true. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of ignorant, vulgar, bigoted ex-sports stars commentating on sport all over the world. Without even stretching, I can think of several in my own country, one of whom is worse than Yagudin, but other ignorant, vulgar bigots watch, follow and make excuses for him as well, and the media company keep them on for that very reason.

And while people like Dick Button and Johnny Weir - and sections of the Japanese media - may not be bigots, they have shown themselves to be nearly as vicious at times. While Stojko is not a commentator, his blatant homophobia didn't as far as I can see stop the Canadian media lauding him generally and happily publishing him when he talks about skating. Every time Nathan Chen is applauded for 'bringing back manly skating', that is unabashed (and witlessly obtuse) homophobia, but the US Fed just nods approvingly.

The ISU has no control over whom a media company in a country where bigotry is perfectly legal chooses to hire and people in that country choose to follow - and would not be interested in 'unnecessarily' taking on a nation that is both one of their two most powerful feds and one of their two biggest successes at the minute.

Living well is the best revenge and Jason and Adam are doing that. We can all only do our bit where we can to change things...

 

[Mawwerg]

Honestly they were on the same level of Tarasova and Trankov's mean comments on Duhamel and Radford.

It sounded a bit harsh but there was some truth to it, lack of balance (even in regards to jumps distribution) is an issue even though there is an appeal to perform all jumping passes in 1 minute and a half. Still he didn't attack or insulted the athlete in any regard.

Originally i didn't even take Yagudin's comments too seriously cause i thought they were only related to the lack of quads, i recall even Tarasova saying sometimes that a quadless program is a ladies program which is also very harsh but to an extent it is still related to the sport. Then i found out it goes beyond that and it's all due to homophobia.

I've to say while don't know if actions will be taken after this, it seems really odd to me that everyone besides us fans, so far have decided to let it slide.
I was hoping in a statement from ISU against racism, homophobia and hatred cause these are not the values this sport should promote in my opinion, and i feel if you don't respond, this will only continue.

I believe ISU should promote skating. For other things promotion other organizations exist.

 

[Tavi...]

The ISU code of ethics sets forth standards for members and prohibits discrimination. While it doesn’t apply directly to television broadcasters, it does apply broadly to “all persons who involve themselves with the ISU in any capacity,” which includes ISU members, such as the Russian Fed, and presumably through them to Yagudin, since they hired or approved him as a broadcaster.

Persons subject to the Code “shall:
- exemplify, by their conduct and by their written and oral communications, the highest standards of honesty, respect, fairness, fair play, ethical behavior, and sporting attitude and shall not act in any manner which might damage the reputation of the ISU or the ISU sports;
- inspire internal and public confidence in the fairness, honesty and integrity of the ISU, the ISU sports and all who act under the auspices of the ISU sports.”

It would be very easy for me to argue that Yagudin has violated the code.

https://www.isu.org/docman-document...munications/19025-isu-communication-2215/file

 

[Supernovaimplosion]

The ISU code of ethics sets forth standards for members and prohibits discrimination. While it doesn’t apply directly to television broadcasters, it does apply broadly to “all persons who involve themselves with the ISU in any capacity,” which includes ISU members, such as the Russian Fed, and presumably through them to Yagudin, since they hired or approved him as a broadcaster.

Persons subject to the Code “shall:
- exemplify, by their conduct and by their written and oral communications, the highest standards of honesty, respect, fairness, fair play, ethical behavior, and sporting attitude and shall not act in any manner which might damage the reputation of the ISU or the ISU sports;
- inspire internal and public confidence in the fairness, honesty and integrity of the ISU, the ISU sports and all who act under the auspices of the ISU sports.”

It would be very easy for me to argue that Yagudin has violated the code.

https://www.isu.org/docman-document...munications/19025-isu-communication-2215/file

I've really been dreading entering this thread, but do commentators actually go to the competitions to watch live, or do they watch it through screens like most of us?
Because if so, couldn't the ISU deny him entry to competitions as a commentator? Not saying they would.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I dont think Yagudin has anything to do with Russian skating federation - he is not the person who represent it, in matter of fact he is not the person who represented his opinion while being hired by the channel to commentate on it. He represented his own opinion on some internet platform, the same as Adam Rippon did, and their 'messages' should not have more weight than your or mine message or messages of any other person on this forum. Just because is someone Yagudin, his messages shouldn't be taken as more 'valuable' than any other messages of any other person in the world for that matter. Why should we care in first place about what Yagudin thinks?