- Joined
- Dec 7, 2019
Why?
Is 3A a triple or a quad?
Anyway we can discuss if it's the time to move forward.
Going back it's non sense.
Should Ladies Skating Allow Quads in the SP?
- Thread starter Sam-Skwantch
- Start date
Why?
Is 3A a triple or a quad?
Anyway we can discuss if it's the time to move forward.
Going back it's non sense.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2019
Problem isn't 3A itself,but rule which forces skaters to have Axel type jump in SP, so skaters who can't jump 3A need to jump 2A, Base value of 2A is 3.30 so just having 3A gives skater 5 point advantage in SP...
This would be no issue if Skaters could jump 3 Lutz or 3 Flip instead of 2A but that isn't a case.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2019
That's why I think it's ok if it's annouced soon and enforced after olympics.
It's important for the skaters, especially the juniors, to have time to develop a strategy in including new elements.
Sadly it will reduce the deep of the strategy and not increase it.
Now we have a trixel that can be used in SP and FSx2 and quads that can be used in FSx2, so learning both it's ideally the best strategy (unless you have 3 different quads in your arsenal)
If you can do a single quad 3 times there is not reason to invest time in learning a trixel and axels are very precious because they are they only jumps with frontal takeoff.
P.S. not to you.
It make little sense talking about current skaters.
By the time quads will be allowed the "map" will probably change a lot.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2019
ok clear.
I follow you more on this vision, but axels are the only frontal jump. If not included by the rules the time to learn a totally different takeoff will be a bad investment for a young skater.
It's already more profitable to work on learning quads.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
I wouldn't mind if they made it that you have to attempt a 3A in the SP to be allowed to put in a quad. Otherwise it's less likely skaters will learn a 3A, and we will keep having a 2A followed by 4Lz.
With men's they already all do 3A.
With men's they already all do 3A.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
As another poster mentioned, it would be better (and probably more interesting) if the SP weren't just a shorter version of the LP. The ISU could alternate the required jump between the flip and lutz, and have the combos rotate between a toe loop and a loop, allowing the women to do quads if they are able to within those parameters. For me, the whole point of having the SP required elements is so that the judges have an apples-to-apples comparison of the skaters attempting similar skills, and having more specific requirements could do that without limiting the choreographic creativity that's possible.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
I think both quads and triple axels should be allowed. Right now, it's more advantageous to learn a 3A than a quad because the 3A can be used in the short and the quad can't be. It's also more advantageous to have three triple axels than two quad lutzes and a quad flip (as seen with Anna Shcherbakova and Alena Kostornaia), although it would be interesting to see the scores of both when squeaky clean, since that hasn't happened yet.
The fact that it's better points-wise to do an easier jump seems counter-intuitive to the idea of sports, in my opinion.
The fact that it's better points-wise to do an easier jump seems counter-intuitive to the idea of sports, in my opinion.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
I think to be fair yes the quad should be allow in the sp. Otherwise the 3A if you have that for example but no quad really the 3A holds everyone hostage. It seems unfair you can't do a 3A for whatever reason but you can do a quad or quads and you can't use it in the sp. Even in pairs especially pre plus or minus five goe it was beneficial for a pairs if they could land a throw 3A in the short as ou couldn't do a quad which is what more teams could do.
I think if they allow quads in ladies they have to allow more for artistry, I think this happen for men’s too.
Or do quads and don’t get points for it, just like the pairs quad throw. Way too much about jumping. Just like when athletes back logged her program with jumps for points, so many beautiful skaters to watch and being overshadowed by the teens doing quads.
Or do quads and don’t get points for it, just like the pairs quad throw. Way too much about jumping. Just like when athletes back logged her program with jumps for points, so many beautiful skaters to watch and being overshadowed by the teens doing quads.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2019
At Russian Junior Nats skaters had to jumps 2A (even if they 3A), that IMO is more fair. 3A still gives skater an advantage but only +2 points not +5.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
I’m not really sure I can understand how one extra revolution in the air detracts from artistry (whatever that is anyway) but go off !!
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
No.
Yes, but not until after the 2022 Olympics. Changing the rules two years before the Olympics would give an advantage to the new quadsters. Triple axels for ladies have been around for a long time. Ladies quads are new. Skaters have known for at least 10 years that they could gain points by doing a 3A in the short program.
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
I personally like this. Others complain that the SP even in its current form is very boring because it's so repetitive and the scores become arbitrary, especially with PCS. I like the apples-to-apples comparison, though, but only when it's judged well.
Yep! I think a decent compromise to the whole issue of quads in the short program for ladies would be to do 'categorize' the jumps similar to how they do elements in gymnastics and put the triple axels and quads in 1 category and make the requirement be that a skater can (but is not required to) include 1 jump from this category. And make it the same across both disciplines.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Agreed. Even if it's a telegraphed set up, it's 10 seconds max in a program.
I'm for the inclusion of it in short programs. Yes it gives an "unfair" advantage to the young Russians/Liu (and maybe Kihira/Tursynbaeva), but other ladies are welcome to learn it. A while ago, it would have been sacrilege to allow the ladies to do a 3-3 in a short program, and now it's standard.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
I like the idea of having a required layout that everyone one follows in the SP at its face value but I must admit when skaters don’t have both Lutz jump and Flip jumps it could hinder a lot of others. I’m thinking of skaters who utilize 3t-3t or substitute a loop for a Flip or Lutz. I don’t think when you keep the collective group of skaters and their varying degrees of skill in mind that it would be fair overall.
I’d be willing to entertain the idea of both the men and women only allowed to do one big element like a 3a OR quad in the SP. This would create a natural side effect that increases the value of the components by removing some of the TES without changing the sport dramatically but I must admit....it does look a bit like a step back overall and probably would be heavily criticized for reasons I know I would be willing to entertain.
I’d be willing to entertain the idea of both the men and women only allowed to do one big element like a 3a OR quad in the SP. This would create a natural side effect that increases the value of the components by removing some of the TES without changing the sport dramatically but I must admit....it does look a bit like a step back overall and probably would be heavily criticized for reasons I know I would be willing to entertain.
