HUGE 8 POINTS vs. paltry 6 points? Are you serious?
9/10 competitive female skaters can do lutz
Only Mao does triple axel now, and the risk far outweights the HUGE 2 POINTS advantage.
Let's regress the sport back to double toe, shall we?
Some scientific analysis of Mao's 3A
- Thread starter Bennett
- Start date
HUGE 8 POINTS vs. paltry 6 points? Are you serious?
9/10 competitive female skaters can do lutz
Only Mao does triple axel now, and the risk far outweights the HUGE 2 POINTS advantage.
Let's regress the sport back to double toe, shall we?
Again, do you believe this research result of scientific measurement with high-tech facilities by a world-class expert in this field which dictated in order for Mao to do a 3A, she has to rotate 7.7 rev per sec?
Tilting the body changes marginally if anything the height from the blade to ice. It might change the height from head to ice, not from toe to ice.
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2007
100% agree with you...
Only if a skater execute 3A without cheats...
Absolutely worth 8 points... ESPECIALLY for LADIES !!!
Only if a skater execute 3A without cheats...
Absolutely worth 8 points... ESPECIALLY for LADIES !!!
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
For Mao I don't think it is about the points, I think it is more about how she is one of few ladies ever who can do a 3a so she wants to do it in competition. There are skaters who milk CoP and figure out how to get high scores without super difficult jumps/combinations sure, but it's really cool to see those skaters who take risks and do those difficult skills. In men's skating I think Tomas Verner is an example, his 4t-3t is huge and beautiful and often times it causes him to use up a lot of energy and falter on his other jumps. He could play it safe and leave the 4-3 out, but it's so cool to watch when you see it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwaHebBhjIA&feature=PlayList&p=29FB88BFF14AC893&index=0&playnext=1
He got a 2.00 for his GOE on that combo! How can you not appreciate that combination? (granted he messed up the rest of his program but still). I feel the same way when Mao does a really good 3a. It's just so impressive
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2010
It's what a lot of Mao fans insist, but that's not the real story. Mao is TRYing 3As to overcome her other weaknesses. (like no 3-3, 3Lz & 3S)
BTW, there's no way you can get high scores without super difficult jumps/combinations or any skills, if not you are only referring to 3A.
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You can't say she's using 3As to overcome her other weaknesses. She didn't use to have problems with those jumps until recently, except for the flutz thing. Her focus on the 3A has been there even when she didn't really have those weaknesses in her jumps. If you look at her programs, the number of 3As she tries increases little by little with each season. I actually think it's her focus on her 3As which takes away from practicing her other jumps that has partly resulted in her problems.
Since when is no 3-3 a weakness? If CoP didn't start cracking down on UR, there will be a lot more 3-3.
Miki used to do 3-3 in every single competition. Now she's doing 3-2 because her 3-3 is almost never ratified.
Irina's 3-3 would never be ratified, and I bet my bottom dollar she'd stop putting 3-3 in her program altogether had she competed in this time frame.
Tara flutz, Sarah flutz, Shiz lip. Mao's flutz was actually one of the best flutz I've ever seen. She was just competing in the wrong era.
Wasn't the Russian judge put Sarah in 10th place after the SP?
What is the real story?
I should say she's adding more and more 3As to overcome her other weaknesses; like replacing unratified 3-3 with 3A-2T in SP and also in FP.
Why wouldn't she just go for 3-2 instead of unsteady 3A combinations? That would make more sense to me. Is it because 3-2 combination might not be enough to be win an OG?
I want to hear her honest thoughts on this.
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What honest thoughts?
She wants to win the gold. The 3As are her weapon to win.
What exactly surprises you?
They will not ratify a 3-3loop combo. The only way to get around it is to find another combo with similar base point.
Mao should totally post her diary online so you can hear her honest thoughts.
If Mao's 3A are to be scrutinized the way Yuna's 3X3's have been for UR, there is no way she will receive credit for any of them. Mao's pre-rotations are so plainly obvious on 3A's. Addedd to her pre rotations are her UR landings. She is experiencing difficulty rotating her combos, even 3X2 and 2X2 recently. I'm wondering which jumps she will actually receive full credit for, if any.
When talking about jumps only, her weaknesses are
(1) no 3Lz and no 3S, and
(2) no good at combination jumps (particularly 3-3 but sometimes her second jump in 3-2 has been downgraded).
Considering her weaknesses, imagine what layout of her jumps could be without 3 Axs. Triple jumps she could include are only three types, 3 flip, 3 loop, and 3 toe-loop. For sp, it could be ok, but for lp it is hard to have a program with just three types of tripes. The thing is that the quality of her 3t is not good enough to use as a second jump. Even for 3f-2t (also 3f-2l), the second one was sometimes downgraded.
So, I think she is focusing on 3 axels to overcome her weaknesses.
I think her weakness is not mearly "no 3-3" but "no solid combination jumps" including 3-2.
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Just because she doesn't have them in her layout, doesn't mean you can call it her weaknesses. As for her problem with combination jumps, um which skater besides Yuna really have solid 3-3? Also these are recent problems, but her focus on 3A goes way back, so she is not using them to overcome her weaknesses. She just likes that jump because it's her trademark. She has stated this in interviews for those who wants to hear her thoughts.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
Loop, toe loop, and sal are enough for Lepisto to win medals, and normally half her jumps are doubled anyways and she still gets good scores.
Cuz she's pretty~
jk~She's got 3t-3t though, and she now has triple lutz in her pockets.
Lepisto is actually one of my favorites.
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- Joined
- Jan 1, 2010
I've never heard that a skater jumps by the shoulder.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
the way Evan flings himself into a triple axel he seems to power it all with the shoulder...
Kurt's 3A in it's hey day also got some shoulder action, though it was more of a reach up than a swing around (Evan's way of going into it)
Kurt's 3A in it's hey day also got some shoulder action, though it was more of a reach up than a swing around (Evan's way of going into it)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrossano
As for defining the rotation, I mostly agree with someone's earlier comment, that it's not necessarily about the position of the blade during the skid, its the orientation of the hips, and for me also the shoulders (the torso as a whole), that determine the direction/rotation angle at the takeoff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starrynight
I've never heard that a skater jumps by the shoulder.
I don't think gsrossano is suggesting you jump (rotate) by the shoulder. Certianly if the shoulders are rotated and the hips are square then the jump will typically fail miserably. So when examining a jump if the shoulders are rotated there is a problem as well.
The skid on an Axel should not cause the foot to be more than 1/4 rotated otherwise you would have to likely turn the hips as well, but this is why the hips should be examined not the foot at take off.
That being said I will continue to harp on the fact that discussing prerotations and underrotations based on videos posted to youTube is mostly pointless as the video quality and frame rate are too poor to make a judgement in the majority of cases. The tech specialists have good equipment and a typically the camera is set up to provide a similar view to what the judges have. This is the view they judge with and any other angle is meaningless from a judging perspective as they don't see them.
Originally Posted by gsrossano
As for defining the rotation, I mostly agree with someone's earlier comment, that it's not necessarily about the position of the blade during the skid, its the orientation of the hips, and for me also the shoulders (the torso as a whole), that determine the direction/rotation angle at the takeoff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starrynight
I've never heard that a skater jumps by the shoulder.
I don't think gsrossano is suggesting you jump (rotate) by the shoulder. Certianly if the shoulders are rotated and the hips are square then the jump will typically fail miserably. So when examining a jump if the shoulders are rotated there is a problem as well.
The skid on an Axel should not cause the foot to be more than 1/4 rotated otherwise you would have to likely turn the hips as well, but this is why the hips should be examined not the foot at take off.
That being said I will continue to harp on the fact that discussing prerotations and underrotations based on videos posted to youTube is mostly pointless as the video quality and frame rate are too poor to make a judgement in the majority of cases. The tech specialists have good equipment and a typically the camera is set up to provide a similar view to what the judges have. This is the view they judge with and any other angle is meaningless from a judging perspective as they don't see them.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
Cuz she's pretty~
She's got 3t-3t though, and she now has triple lutz in her pockets.
Lepisto is actually one of my favorites.
True. But normally she turns her 3t-3t into 2t-2t and her 3lz into a 2lz, and still scores well. But she does have excellent edging and footwork, which probably contributes to her high scores. She doesn't get nearly the scores of Mao usually though, not really a contender for an OM, which I guess is kind of what people are saying now with Mao if she ditches the 3a's, especially where her 3-2-2 has been recently DGed and even her solo 3loop is questionable. I think Mao needs a new coach...
