Songs I Like

[Olympia]

Yes, yes, yes! I love Zulu choral singing. Paul Simon is a wonderful world music collector, isn't he? He started all the way back in the 1960s, with "El Condor Pasa," that stirring Andean melody. By coincidence, I was planning to put an Andean video in for my next contribution. There are bunches of them on YouTube, but since this is a skating site, why not use "Missing"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coM4d1CQZfs

Any of you music scholars know why it is that Andean melodies and harmonies are so immediately accessible and congenial to Western ears? Is there a heavy component of Spanish influence, or is this the authentic original idiom of the region?

 

[dorispulaski]

http://www.about-peru-history.com/inca-music.html

I found this link on Peruvian musical instruments.

I believe the panpipes & flutes, not to mention the ocarina style instrument are traditional while the stringed instruments were introduced at the time of the Spanish conquest.

 

[Olympia]

Thanks, Doris. One of my favorite instruments is that huge pipe--don't know what it's called--that sounds as if the mountains themselves are breathing. There's a bit of them in the music used during "Missing."

 

[dorispulaski]

The Missing I music is Dolencias & Sikuriades by the Inti-Illimani. The Missing II music is Atahualpa & Cacharpaya by the same group.

I don't think you can go wrong skating to that music.

Here's Sikuriades from the Flight of the Condor album
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqECXbel0yc

Here's another number by them



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_9d8AFotvQ&feature=related

 

[skatinginbc]

My Bulgarian friend says that the particular vibrato deep in the throat is a specialty of Bulgarian women's singing.

The vibrato has a Central Asian flavor, almost like a mixture of Turkic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=905X5Th_ba8) and Iranian (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pw7UdmBtIw). Can it be a heirloom of the ancient Bulgars that migrated from the East?

 

[iluvtodd]

I love a lot of English Revival folk music, especially by the group Steeleye Span, who I think did a lot of their own arrangements and adaptations, and used electric instruments. Here's "The Weaver and the Factory Maid," which has everything: Maddy Prior's clarion voice, some story, some dancy music, and a glimpse of the Industrial Revolution and the people who lived through it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do7epBepl8U&feature=related

Another Steeleye Span fan here! I especially love "One Misty, Moisty Morning," "Spotted Cow," and "All Around My Hat."

 

[Olympia]

Hooray for Steeleye Span! Maddy Prior is one of the great folk voices. She's still in fine fettle vocally and has been releasing some fascinating concept albums about historical and legendary figures, such as Arthur the King. I hear she's done one from the point of view of Eleanor of Aquitaine, called Lionheart.

I think a lot of people assume that all the best British music is from the Celtic parts of the islands, but plain old English folk music (and I don't know its deep, past roots) is rich, varied, by turns haunting and merry--one of the world's great folk idioms. Composers like Ralph Vaughan Williams used folk elements in their music, very much the way Rimsky-Korsakov and Tchaikovsky used the wonderful melodies and colorations of Russian folk music in their works.

BC, I don't know where that Bulgarian vibrato comes from, but it certainly sounds Asian, doesn't it? I'd be willing to bet that it was there from before their earliest migration to the Balkan area.

Doris, thanks for the names of the "Missing" songs. I have noticed Inti-Illimani before but hadn't tracked down those songs. Now that I know the titles, I can hunt them up in their original forms. I think Christopher Dean did a great job of blending them, didn't he? (Or whoever helped him with the music.)

 

[skatinginbc]

Any of you music scholars know why it is that Andean melodies and harmonies are so immediately accessible and congenial to Western ears? Is there a heavy component of Spanish influence, or is this the authentic original idiom of the region?

I'm not familiar with Andean songs but I decided to listen to a couple, and I did not hear "Spanish" in them. What stood out to my ears is the word "harmony". If you pay attention to every downbeat, all of them fall into one of the notes that constitute the minor seventh chord (i.e., relative Do, Mi♭, So, Ti♭). For instance, this is the sequence of downbeats in "El Condor Pasa":
Do- | So- | So- | So- | Do- | Do- || Do- | So- | So- | So- | Do- | Do- || Do- | Do- | Ti♭- | So-|| Do- | Do-| Ti♭-| So-| Do-| Do-||
And this is the sequence of this traditional Andean music titled "Kusi-Kusi" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pv85HRmqh0):
Mi♭- | So- | Mi♭- | Do- | Mi♭- | So- | Mi♭- | Do-||: Mi♭- | So- | Mi♭- | Do- || Mi♭- | Ti♭- | Ti♭- | So- | Mi♭- | Ti♭- | Ti♭- | So- || Do- | Do- | Ti♭- | So-| Do- | Do- | Ti♭- | So- || Mi♭- | Ti♭- | Ti♭- | So- | Mi♭- | Ti♭- | Ti♭- | So- || Do- | Do- | Ti♭- | So-| Do- | Do- | Ti♭- | So- || Mi♭- | So- | Mi♭- | Do- | Mi♭- | So- | Mi♭- | Do-:||
It appears that the entire song is in an integrated harmony, namely, in the minor seventh chord.

Why is it so immediately accessible to everyone's ears? Well, fresh water is more universally welcomed than fine wine; vanilla ice cream sells better than the chocolate-flavored. Beethoven Symphony No.5 in C minor, 'Fate' Op.67 (1) is one of the most popular in all of classical music because its "simplicity"--I mean, the entire movement is based on a four-note motif: "short-short-short-long" (e.g., So So So Mi♭-).

The intrinsic simplicity in harmony is probably what makes Andean melodies easy to the ears.

 

[Olympia]

Thanks, BC! I will use your notations while listening.

To my far less musically educated mind, the thing that occurred to me was that Andean music seems to use that combination of major and relative minor which is simple and gorgeous (lots of early rock and roll songs had that, such as my beloved "Stand by Me"). By contrast, if you listen to, say, North American Indian music, it's more chant like, with no harmonic progression (please pardon my ignorant use of terminology), and that music doesn't do anything for me except in terms of engendering respect for the culture.

The very fact that there is harmony and that chords are used is different from most indigenous music, isn't it? That's something I wonder about.

 

[skatinginbc]

Andean music seems to use that combination of major and relative minor which is simple and gorgeous

Exactly. A minor seventh chord (say, C, E♭, G, B♭) can be seen as a combination of a minor triad (C, E♭, G) and a major triad (E♭, G, B♭). So it may appear to be switching back and forth between a major and a minor, but it in fact stays the same in a holistic level.

The very fact that there is harmony and that chords are used is different from most indigenous music, isn't it? That's something I wonder about.

Actually I'm more fascinated by the similarity, not disparity, in primeval music, as if there once existed something called "proto-music" or as if all human races could trace their sense of musicality to the same gene.

 

[Olympia]

Actually I'm more fascinated by the similarity, not disparity, in primeval music, as if there once exited something called "proto-music" or as if all human races could trace their sense of musicality to the same gene.

Whenever I stop to think about it, I'm always astonished at the fact that just about every culture values music in some way. Some groups may allow only liturgical music, but it's splendid liturgical music. Or at least prayers are chanted rather than spoken (as in Judaism). Music seems to be as deep in our bones as the very marrow. In that vein (pun not intended), I recently saw that wonderful documentary The Cave of Forgotten Dreams, which takes us down into a cave with the oldest known paintings, more than 30,000 years old. Just to think that this long ago, some individual looked at animals so closely that he/she could draw them that vibrantly on a wall in a dark cave. That painter had to get some personal satisfaction out of the task--the feeling that all artists get from creating something. So whatever it is inside of us, whether spiritual or chromosomal, has been there for millennia. If that doesn't give you gooseflesh...

 

[Olympia]

Double post; interval of several hours

I am listening to that last Li Tai Xiang song, with the man singing. I wasn't expecting such a full voice, what I'd call a classical voice rather than a pop voice. This is really very interesting. His voice sounds almost like Jan Peerce, a wonderful tenor who came from the Eastern European Jewish cantorial tradition and also sang Yiddish popular songs. There's a plaintive, emotional styling that I associate with that tradition that I get glimpses of here.

What great music this is, and I've lived all this time and never knew it existed!

Next: Doris's polkas!

ETA: I'm back. The polkas were fun. That Finnish one, sung a cappella by that sweet-faced young quartet, is especially delightful.

Then I went to BC's two Central Asian songs. Wow! The Tajik one is especially gorgeous, and the photos and paintings that accompany the song on the video are beautiful.

 

[skatinginbc]

I am listening to that last Li Tai Xiang song, with the man singing.

That was Li Tai Xiang himself singing his own song, a very rare occasion in fact. If you pay attention to the last note of each phrase, you may find that his voice often slid down as if he failed to stay in key. He did it on purpose actually, to reflect the tonal contour of each Chinese word. Chinese is a tonal language after all, which dictates the types of western music instruments that can be easily incorporated into the Chinese music. Piano, for example, is NOT a good candidate because the pitch cannot be changed once the key is pressed. Violin, cello and guitar-like string instruments are good candidates.
Here is another Li Tai Xiang's music: Listen to that gliding, "pitchy" or "talking" voice of the bow-string instrument, so "Chinesy" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ef4VE41Jg).

 

[iluvtodd]

Whenever I stop to think about it, I'm always astonished at the fact that just about every culture values music in some way. Some groups may allow only liturgical music, but it's splendid liturgical music. Or at least prayers are chanted rather than spoken (as in Judaism).

Olympia, I'm a little puzzled by your statement here. Yes, there are quite a number of prayers in Judaism that are spoken, but there are also many that are sung. I've sung in an adult synagogue choir for years, and am now participating in a women's chorus @ our synagogue, and we are learning plenty of newer liturgical pieces for parts of the Sabbath service.

Back to Steeleye Span, what is the name of the instrumental piece they do that sounds like an Irish jig? It's from the album "Below the Salt." I , play it on the piano, and feel like getting up & dancing every time I hear it. Maddy Prior has a magnificent voice, and I the group's harmonies.

 

[Olympia]

Oh, whoops! I just reread my statement and it implies that I meant that prayers were spoken as in Judaism. I meant that they were chanted as in Judaism rather than spoken. I'm so sorry for the misplaced modifier, which changed the whole sentence! My apologies to thousands of years' worth of cantors and rabbis.

It's great that you're in the choir. My aunt was in her synagogue chorus, and their cantor (a wonderful baritone) commissioned several new pieces. Thanks for getting me to clear that up, Iluvtodd.

I can't remember the name of the jig on Below the Salt. I looked up the playlist, and it could be "The Bride's Favourite" or "Tansey's Fancy." You could probably find a free extract online, on Amazon maybe, and figure it out, or even on YouTube. Isn't the Internet grandl? My two favorites on that album are "Gaudete" and "King Henry." The latter is a variant on the folktale motif of the Loathly Lady, also seen in the Wife of Bath's Tale in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales.

BC, that voice is the composer? Impressive. I was so drawn in to the song.

 

[skatinginbc]

I love a lot of English Revival folk music, especially by the group Steeleye Span, who I think did a lot of their own arrangements and adaptations, and used electric instruments. Here's "The Weaver and the Factory Maid," which has everything: Maddy Prior's clarion voice, some story, some dancy music, and a glimpse of the Industrial Revolution and the people who lived through it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do7epBepl8U&feature=related

That's a very interesting song. It uses a Hexatonic scale (namely, C, D, E, F, G, B♭, C) that combines a C-Major triad (C, E, G) and a G-Minor triad (G, B♭, D) and thus creates a mixture of subtle sadness and joy. It doesn't sound very "English" to me however. It deviates from other Germanic (including English) folk music (e.g., http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR8Lf6qcSIo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zep8ZFcZztM, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot1ut0I0-Us&feature=related). The "classical music" that we know of was greatly influenced by Germanic musicians, for instance:
Baroque era: Bach (German) and Handel (German-British).
Classical Period: Haydn (Austrian), Mozart (Austrian), Beethoven (German), Schubert (Austrian)
It is my stereotypical impression about "English" music--It sounds rather "classical". The hexatonic scale I mentioned is not "classical" and thus to me it seems somewhat "exotic" (I mean non-Germanic).

My two favorites on that album are "Gaudete" and "King Henry."

Love "King Henry." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrsGpPA5TBA).

prayers are chanted...as deep in our bones as the very marrow...

Islamic Chant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rDo3R49-OWk#t=81s
Jewish Chant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vuY_bwqDEHI#t=157s
Christan Chant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcK26_mYD4Q
They sound somewhat similar, don't they?

Here's another number by them (Inti-Illimani) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_9d8AFotvQ&feature=related

Love that music, beautiful :thumbsup:

His voice sounds almost like Jan Peerce

Oh, that divine, powerful voice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w633M08hsaU&feature=fvst

And how could I forget this song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxgW_RgsHL4 from Andrea Bocelli. It gives me chills every time I hear it.

 

[Olympia]

I have a bunch of songs that seem to have a blood-stimulating rhythm. Here's one of them, "The Rap," which may or may not be traditional Celtic music. It's performed by Secret Garden, which seems to be a fusion of Scandinavian and Celtic. I defy you not to tap your feet when you hear this. The rhythm is very complex. Part of it seems to be one-two-three-one-two-three-one-two, but not all of it. It's almost as if the ground is shifting under one's feet as one listens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9yxp2aw5eE

This is perhaps the fastest rendition of "Libertango." I always gravitate back to it. It has a kind of floating rhythm to me; despite its speed, someone could skate to it rather smoothly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bjps_apYdKw

I'm interested in your thought about English music sounding Germanic. Your point about English music having strong German influence is underlined by the fact that there really wasn't any prominent native-born English composer between Purcell and Elgar. Instead, they borrowed: Handel and Mendelssohn were boffo in Britain in their respective eras. (By which time, a German family was on the throne of Britain, in any case.) When I think of English composed music, Elgar certainly has a lot of German to me. But Vaughan Williams doesn't. This may be because VW used a lot of folk idioms, but he also went back and used Elizabethan musical elements. I don't know what modal music is, but according to an article I read once, that's what a lot of Elizabethan music was, and Vaughan Williams used it in his Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis, one of my favorite pieces in the world. (What is modal music?)

This thread is so delectable!

 

[iluvtodd]

Oh, whoops! I just reread my statement and it implies that I meant that prayers were spoken as in Judaism. I meant that they were chanted as in Judaism rather than spoken. I'm so sorry for the misplaced modifier, which changed the whole sentence! My apologies to thousands of years' worth of cantors and rabbis.

It's great that you're in the choir. My aunt was in her synagogue chorus, and their cantor (a wonderful baritone) commissioned several new pieces. Thanks for getting me to clear that up, Iluvtodd.

I can't remember the name of the jig on Below the Salt. I looked up the playlist, and it could be "The Bride's Favourite" or "Tansey's Fancy." You could probably find a free extract online, on Amazon maybe, and figure it out, or even on YouTube. Isn't the Internet grandl? My two favorites on that album are "Gaudete" and "King Henry." The latter is a variant on the folktale motif of the Loathly Lady, also seen in the Wife of Bath's Tale in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales.

Cool! That partly explains my "Gotta Have Music" in my profile. I can't imagine life without music!

I the whole "Below the Salt" album. I need to upgrade it to CD, though. "Gaudete" is gorgeous! I also "Saucy Sailor." The "Parcel of Rogues" album is great too! Off to do a Youtube search for that jig!

 

[skatinginbc]

What is modal music?

Definition 1: Modal music is one that uses a modal scale other than the Ionian mode (major scale), Aeolian mode (natural minor), melodic minor and harmonic minor scales common in the music of the classical period. Under this definition, Thomas Tallis' Third Mode Melody, which inspired Vaughan Williams' composition of Fantasia, is modal because it used a Church mode, namely, the Phrygian mode. The Third Mode Melody (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXt-2BmgVbA) known to us today is not the original but Vaughan's rearrangement, which is underlined by traditional tonality despite having sprinkles of modal coloration here and there.
Definition 2: On top of using a non-classical mode, modal music is one that focuses chiefly on melodic beauty inherent from the mode, in contrast to classical music that focuses on harmonic progression and heavily gravitates toward a central triad with a clear sense of "major" or "minor". Vaughan Williams' "The Lark Ascending" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWwBh0dzgi4&feature=related) is an example of modal music. It sounds "oriental" (e..g, A Chinese traditional music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN5k6WtYvso) for I see the image of Yuna Kim, not a British skater.

Although church music (e.g., William Byrd and Thomas Tallis) in Elizabethan era employed church modes (a borrowing from foreign sources), I don't know if they have been used in street music as well. And the Hexatonic scale used in The Weaver and the Factory Maid is different from those church modes, so I'm not sure about its connection to Elizabethan music, either.

But I think you proved a point: "English" music does not always sound Germanic. Since the early Britons contained mainly Germanic tribes such as Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Danes, I naturally consider English folk songs that carry Germanic elements to be the "real" ones. Of course, it is a stereotype, biased against Normans and other peoples that have contributed to the establishment of the Kingdom of Great Britain.

 

[Olympia]

Thanks, BC! I knew you'd come through for me. And you found the original Tallis melody! I've poked around but never found it. I've loved the VW piece since I first encountered it as maybe a teenager; I didn't know music could be so sublime. If there's ever a piece that can take one out of oneself, that's it. Have you ever heard his opera, Sir John in Love? It's his Falstaff opera.

I have to sit down with all the info you've so generously laid out and figure out the differences in sound. My background in music is strictly by ear; it consists solely of listening to radio and recordings, and one survey class on music that I got into on the strength of knowing the repertoire--they exempted me from the prerequisite of the theory class. The result is, no theory background. So I'm doing this all backwards!

We had the little Kalmus scores, and I followed along by the shape the notes made on the page--oh, it's going up now, and there's the fast part with the notes crowded together. I used ear memory instead. We did Bach's "Sleepers Wake" cantata, Haydn's Drum Roll symphony, Beethoven's First Razumovsky Quartet, Brahms' Fourth symphony, and something by Stravinsky. (Modern dissonant music does not float my boat. At all.) And Schubert's Great C Major Quintet, with the two cellos. I'm getting gooseflesh just writing out the title to that one.

The first part of the Schubert:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmeOkfhkqa4

And I found a complete recording:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3tmFhrOgNk&feature=related