Hi all! I was just wondering, as someone who is an active "watcher" and fan of figure skating, but who isn't personally involved in the sport, what is the most difficult spin, or spin combo to perform? What merits a "good" spin with a positive GOE from a sub-par spin? And finally, what are your personal favorite spins performed by top figure skaters?
Spins - difficulty and preferences
- Thread starter Tally
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2017
IF the center of spin look stable, not too much traveling:
Beautiful and difficult positions, fast rotation = good spins.
Basic positions that do not look spectacular, ok rotation = so so spins.
Basic positions that look like everyone can do, slow rotation = weak spins.
This is what I observe from children at my rink when they watch the videos.
Beautiful and difficult positions, fast rotation = good spins.
Basic positions that do not look spectacular, ok rotation = so so spins.
Basic positions that look like everyone can do, slow rotation = weak spins.
This is what I observe from children at my rink when they watch the videos.
Are you familiar with the rules about spin levels and grades of execution?
You'll find most of them in
The bullet points for positive grade of execution on spins are
I think centering is important to a good spin, but there will naturally be some shifting of the center with changes to positions, change of edge, and change of foot (especially changing from backspin to forward spin or changing between clockwise and counterclockwise rotational direction).
From Spins Difficult Variations Chart Tool - Singles:
That's about the position variations. Other difficulty features include changing edge or changing direction. Flying entry also adds difficulty and is reflected by a different code and different base value.
You'll find most of them in
ISU Communication #2168 - Singles and Pair Skating - Scale of Values, Levels of Difficulty, Guidelines for Marking GOE and Additional Remarks.The bullet points for positive grade of execution on spins are
I think centering is important to a good spin, but there will naturally be some shifting of the center with changes to positions, change of edge, and change of foot (especially changing from backspin to forward spin or changing between clockwise and counterclockwise rotational direction).
From Spins Difficult Variations Chart Tool - Singles:
That's about the position variations. Other difficulty features include changing edge or changing direction. Flying entry also adds difficulty and is reflected by a different code and different base value.
Thanks for the links to all the info! When you mention changing edge or direction, I noticed Misha Ge spins in both directions - but I believe his counterclockwise is much stronger.
https://youtu.be/XldlHsu5nRk - 1:51
So he receives a higher base value for spinning in the opposite direction, correct?
As an add-on to my original post, my favorite spin performed by a singles lady has to be by Yulia, sorry I know it's so cliche:
https://youtu.be/V9ZB4QFvf3g - 4:17
And a lesser-known junior lady, Alisa Lozko:
https://youtu.be/AeISwJfQWAI - 2:21
My singles men's goes to Jason Brown!:
https://youtu.be/S3wGV9QuFkE - 1:37, 3:05, and 4:53
I'm also a huge fan of Stephan Lambiel's spins.
What are your guys' favorite spinners?
https://youtu.be/V9ZB4QFvf3g - 4:17
And a lesser-known junior lady, Alisa Lozko:
https://youtu.be/AeISwJfQWAI - 2:21
My singles men's goes to Jason Brown!:
https://youtu.be/S3wGV9QuFkE - 1:37, 3:05, and 4:53
I'm also a huge fan of Stephan Lambiel's spins.
What are your guys' favorite spinners?
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
If you haven't already seen it, you'll love this one minute spin from Lambiel: https://youtu.be/GisPSr6UCtU?t=132
Spinning in the opposite direction is a feature. So yes, he can get to level 4 without using as many position-based features as skaters who aren't able to spin both ways.
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
I would say that Stephane Lambiel, Jeffrey Buttle, Jason Brown, Julia Lipnitskaia, Sasha Cohen, and Alissa Czisny are my favorite spinners. Zhang's pearl spin, Martinez's Bielmann spin, and Keegan Messing's pure speed are standouts too.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2017
We do not have enough love for Alissa's spin https://youtu.be/48HAhTLKZ6E
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
Great centering, nice speed, and a beautifully-held position are my priorities in spins. Features that add levels - eh, not something I necessarily look for or pay attention to.
Alissa Czisny and Sasha Cohen are definitely my favorite spinners. Give me a beautiful camel or layback spin - seriously, we see so few gorgeous classic camel spin positions nowadays!
Also Lambiel. I looooooove headless scratch spins! And scratch spins in general, which we don't see enough of.
As for Yulia - I have a lot of respect for her spinning ability, but some of her positions are too scary-looking to be aesthetically pleasing, IMO. Totally my own personal response.
ETA: There's nothing I am more sick of than mediocre Biellmans. The Biellman used to have a wow factor - now, all of the top ladies do it, and most of them don't do it well. Even the good Biellmans lack the wow factor they used to have, because the position itself is predictable when everyone is doing it.
Alissa Czisny and Sasha Cohen are definitely my favorite spinners. Give me a beautiful camel or layback spin - seriously, we see so few gorgeous classic camel spin positions nowadays!
Also Lambiel. I looooooove headless scratch spins! And scratch spins in general, which we don't see enough of.
As for Yulia - I have a lot of respect for her spinning ability, but some of her positions are too scary-looking to be aesthetically pleasing, IMO. Totally my own personal response.
ETA: There's nothing I am more sick of than mediocre Biellmans. The Biellman used to have a wow factor - now, all of the top ladies do it, and most of them don't do it well. Even the good Biellmans lack the wow factor they used to have, because the position itself is predictable when everyone is doing it.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2014
One of my favourite Biellmans of the current field is done by Loena Hendrickx. Enters the layback right after landing the 3S, well-centered, great speed, beautifully held extension through the Biellman.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2017
Oh, Loena's spins are great! :luv17:
- Joined
- May 1, 2017
Lucinda Ruh must not be missed in this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0fvU4wnp34&app=desktop
To me her spins were just mindblowing, especially back in those days. Incredible number of rotations, sublime positions (her layback spins give me life really), incredible accelaration... I think, the reaction from the crowd would be the same even today.
I'm not an expert regarding spins, but Lucinda's spins are my guideline, what +5 quality should be like.
And yes, Yulia's spins were fantastic, too. Her super extended Biellmann and Y-spin were painful to watch sometimes, but a genius without doubt :agree:
To me her spins were just mindblowing, especially back in those days. Incredible number of rotations, sublime positions (her layback spins give me life really), incredible accelaration... I think, the reaction from the crowd would be the same even today.
I'm not an expert regarding spins, but Lucinda's spins are my guideline, what +5 quality should be like.
And yes, Yulia's spins were fantastic, too. Her super extended Biellmann and Y-spin were painful to watch sometimes, but a genius without doubt :agree:
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2017
Deniss Vasiljevs's signature sit spin!!
https://youtu.be/z6U5fC1U1mA?t=3m28s
Super difficult, fast, centred, beautiful spin.
He sometimes added arm variations, see here https://youtu.be/yNFVBup1k7k?t=5m2s
and here https://youtu.be/730KATegYYE?t=4m50s (better angle https://youtu.be/HZesNpcYCxw?t=7m2s).
The second variation is so beautiful. It's my favourite spin.
https://youtu.be/z6U5fC1U1mA?t=3m28s
Super difficult, fast, centred, beautiful spin.
He sometimes added arm variations, see here https://youtu.be/yNFVBup1k7k?t=5m2s
and here https://youtu.be/730KATegYYE?t=4m50s (better angle https://youtu.be/HZesNpcYCxw?t=7m2s).
The second variation is so beautiful. It's my favourite spin.
I think Lucinda Ruh is forever praised for her spins, and she fully deserve all the glory. I know she had problems, not form the spins from her programs, but she did extended spins and she ended up with micro concussions. Lucinda positions, centring, and speed are out of this world. In boys it's her con-national Lambiel who come close.
Julia was also amazing for positions and speed.
Julia was also amazing for positions and speed.
Spins are one of favorite aspects of the sport. My most hated spin is the ubiquitous needle/I spin for ladies. Ugh. Favorites are a well positioned lay-back, back scratch and headless scratch.
As for men- Lambiel of course. Love Adam's lay-back. Damon Allen had an amazing headless-- currently Tim Dolensky is pretty much killing it. I admire many others- I could talk about spins all day.
As for men- Lambiel of course. Love Adam's lay-back. Damon Allen had an amazing headless-- currently Tim Dolensky is pretty much killing it. I admire many others- I could talk about spins all day.
- Joined
- May 7, 2017
The protocol establishes the number of turns, change of edge, center, etc. But there are times when skaters reach level 4, but their spins do not seem very nice to me, because they are "learned" as an athletic movement and sometimes they do not match the sense of the music (like the spins of Evgenia , Zagitova and all Eteri girls, they are "Well", but they were only there to collect points, I say this as a fan. I hope that zhenya can improve the speed and add more variations as she did in Anna Karenina).
Personally I like it when the spins are fast and the skater has flexibility and creativity, even if they leave the center: like Yulia, she really was a great spinner. The spins are very aesthetic and unlike the jumps, the skater can put their personality in them, inventing positions and variations. I love the variations in the Carolina Kostner's layback, she has beautiful movements with her hands, she always changes them depending on the program, like Ne me quitte pas, she made a movement with her arms simulating snuggle romantically, and that coincided with the music and the sense. They gave a beautiful atmosphere.
Satoko Miyahara has the right flexibility and speed, Aliza Lozko has unusual variations and a flexibility similar to lipnitskaya.
Adelina Sotnikova also had beautiful original spins that many Russian girls now adopted.
Anyway, I really like the spins, especially when them are used to potent the sense of the program.
Personally I like it when the spins are fast and the skater has flexibility and creativity, even if they leave the center: like Yulia, she really was a great spinner. The spins are very aesthetic and unlike the jumps, the skater can put their personality in them, inventing positions and variations. I love the variations in the Carolina Kostner's layback, she has beautiful movements with her hands, she always changes them depending on the program, like Ne me quitte pas, she made a movement with her arms simulating snuggle romantically, and that coincided with the music and the sense. They gave a beautiful atmosphere.
Satoko Miyahara has the right flexibility and speed, Aliza Lozko has unusual variations and a flexibility similar to lipnitskaya.
Adelina Sotnikova also had beautiful original spins that many Russian girls now adopted.
Anyway, I really like the spins, especially when them are used to potent the sense of the program.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2017
I have a weakness for layback spins. My favorite layback amongst the ladies is tiny Queen Satoko. My favorite from men is Adam Rippon's.
I love Yuzuru's camel position and sit spins.
I also love Pairs spins. Some of my favorites are from Gordieva and Grinkov and Jessica Dube and Bryce Davidson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sQiiVVwdLQ 4:56 mark (even that one is a layback spin so I guess that's the position I love the most).
As for preferences, I prefer ones in good position with good speed and doesn't travel. I know to attain levels, skaters are using some ugly position. One that a lot of skaters use is this weird different position camel spin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiowVKovhLA at 1:16 mark. Does it have a name so I can hate on that spin specifically?
I love Yuzuru's camel position and sit spins.
I also love Pairs spins. Some of my favorites are from Gordieva and Grinkov and Jessica Dube and Bryce Davidson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sQiiVVwdLQ 4:56 mark (even that one is a layback spin so I guess that's the position I love the most).
As for preferences, I prefer ones in good position with good speed and doesn't travel. I know to attain levels, skaters are using some ugly position. One that a lot of skaters use is this weird different position camel spin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiowVKovhLA at 1:16 mark. Does it have a name so I can hate on that spin specifically?
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2016
Isn't it called ''broken leg camel spin'' variation perhaps? I don't mind this one, the worst are some "grab your leg" often camel spins performed by men with inadequate flexibility. They slow down while barely completing (or even not) revolutions while holding that position. It's such an ordeal for them to get through and for us to watch that.
Chaffik Besseghier springs to my mind first. Ideally you would like them to master such element to the point of making it look easy before introducing that but this system encourages otherwise.
In the past (mainly before IJS came into being and before skaters started aiming for LvL4, I do suspect some small changes throughout the years in the rulebook for that too that I don't follow) one very rarely came across this problem. Genuinely bad, mediocre spins or poor spinners were just forgettable but not an eyesore.
But on the other hand I dislike those overly flexible spins too, I never could warm up to Yulia's needle spin for instance.
I fully agree with your love towards Yuzuru spins, his sit spins are :luv17: Especially his cocoon like sit spin and those with fully stretched free leg are incredible.
