Stars On Ice

[FetalAttraction]

Re: Gay Rodeo

The Kinsey scale weighs actual sexual encounters, unfortunately the dastardly camera people must've missed the money shots. Here's how I judged this routine to be gay, I did it in the same way I'd say hetero pairs routine is romantic, even when the skaters aren't linked in real life beyond the jabbing of hands around private areas. When people, whoever the heck they are gender-wise, grope each other on the ice while music about getting it on plays, it's sexual. And when it's all guys, it's homosexual. Mmmkay, class?

I had no idea my saying this routine was pretty gay would cause so much disagreement. I mean, it's not like I suggested that Bourne and Kraatz make a sexy couple .

 

[rgirl181]

Re: Too Gay or Not Too Gay?

Well said, WindSpirit. I was meaning to be ironic about why aren't Divas on Ice seen as Dykes on Ice, as I have known and experienced for many of my 46 years many smudgy colors on the palette of sexuality. I was a dancer in a former life and then went directly into a hyper-conservative sports medicine/equipment environment where educated grown men still giggled at the word "gay." But those very men who would do swish imitations at the mere mention of male figure skaters were suddenly very open-minded about homosexuality if the subject became beautiful babes getting it on for or with guys.

I would say "very true" to "Listen to very straight men to tell you what's gay and what's not" with one edit: "Listen to what apparently very straight men tell you is gay and what's not." I've learned a few secrets about "very straight men," as I'm sure others have.

Fetal, Actually, the whole "Gay Rodeo" thing was bound to come up. Cowboys have been a gay stereotype since there have been cowboys, so put a bunch of them on figure skates, skating to a song called "A Little Less Conversation a Little More Action," have them hold hands as part of the skating choreography, and people are bound to think "Village People" faster than Rudi Galindo can do "YMCA." Of course, as someone mentioned, there is a cowgirl part to this whole number that was not shown on TV and apparently when that is included, it shaves several points off the gay scale.

Whether or not people think it's "Gay Rodeo," I'm glad to see a group number for male skaters where they skate with each other and not vanity tables. As we've seen in popular culture with "real men" actors such as Tom Hanks playing gay men on to sitcoms such as "Will and Grace," in the last 20 years it has become far, far less of an issue than it used to be. From "Boys Don't Cry" to "Far From Heaven," people have the opportunity to see the smudgy areas of sexuality and gender in action and the more one sees of a thing, usually the less frightened one becomes (usually--of course it depends on the person and the strictness of their moral codes). Speaking of which, it is not only super het men who are eager to decide what is and is not gay. I have a friend who is Mormon and has enormously conflicted feelings about being a single woman at 60, never married, but having always had a very strong het sex drive. One year at SOI, Roz Sumners had a woman sing live for one of her programs. The point, it seemed obvious to me, was to have the energy of a live singer to add to Roz's program. The singer was good but not that good and really didn't add anything to the experience of watching it, but I know as a dancer there is something about performing to live music so perhaps Roz thought it would be worth it to drag this singer along on the whole SOI tour to sing one song a night. Anyway, at the end, Roz introduced the singer as "my dear friend" whatever the singer's name was. My Mormon friend, who is also a singer with a degree in music, got quite agitated and said, "Well, what's that all about?! Why would she have a singer?! Are they gay?!"

BTW, this was the same friend who was completely flummoxed and confused by the homosexual scene in "Lawrence of Arabia," for those of you who read my post in Le Cafe. Ever since she didn't get that I think she's been trying to make up for it by saying, "Oh, that's gay" whenever she doesn't understand something. Which brings me to my point: Today, it seems that when people don't understand relations among people the common response where one can feel they well appear sophisticated rather than clueless is to say with a sort of condescending authority, "Oh, that's gay." Anyway, that's just one of my theories

Sorry, this should be in "Sequins and Skaters" thread and/or in Le Cafe. To get back to the SOI skating, they are the only place in skating where you can see dance-like aesthetics--I mean contemporary theatrical dance--used in skating. Paul Taylor has been doing group pieces for all male casts without homosexuality being a necessary theme for decades, but that's modern dance. Anyway, I enjoy seeing skaters do group pieces and SOI is the only place other than Ice Theatre of New York where you can see this kind of skating and SOI is definitely the only place you can see skaters of such high calibre do group pieces. And if they touch each other and people think, "Ewww, homos!" I think it's just part of the learning curve.
Rgirl

 

[FetalAttraction]

Gay Rodeo

Cowboys had a gay stereotype? I knew it, John Wayne's queer

From now on, if any of you suggest that a opposite-sex skating couple has any romantic sparks at all, I'm going to raise a ruckus about kneejerk reactions and moronic mormons. After all, it would be ever so awful to accuse people expressing what's merely motions to music of having any other kind of subtext.

 

[Linny]

Cowboys

Can hardly believe that the cowboys on ice number was the one that raised so much discussion.

Regarding the fact that Tom Hanks played a gay man in The Philadelphia Story. For the record, his partner was Antonio Bandaros. One of the TV biographies on Antonio mentioned that it was not the first time he'd played a gay man, but I don't remember the name of the play (it was in Spain before he'd learned English).

In The Philadelphia Story, there was very little sexuality going on anyway. I think one peck on the lips kiss, and one scene where they dance. Critics of the movie have made much of this. My feeling was that sexuality wasn't really the point of the story and that both the movie and Tom Hank's performance as a PERSON DYING of a totally misunderstood disease were brilliant. The presence of a passionate kiss, or the absence of one take nothing from the message.

Linny

 

[Joesitz]

Re: Cowboys

Linny - It was one of the many Almodovar films.

Joe

 

[MaryMotorMouth]

Re: Cowboys

RGirl-

I have been a cowgirl [ at least at heart] all my life and I have never ever heard of cowboys having a gay stereo type.

Would you start a thread in Le Cafe? I am most intrigued by your statement....

Thaks!

 

[WindSpirit5]

Re: Cowboys

Mary, Rgirl wrote that cowboys <em>had been</em> a gay stereotype (I would say fantasy, lol), IMO there's nothing in there about cowboys having a gay stereotype (cowboys being an object, not the subject). Fetal was the one who - on purpose or not - changed the meaning of that statement.

Btw I agree we're mostly OT here, but the discussion is interesting, so if anyone wants to continue it, I'm going to post my reply in <strong>le café</strong> a little later.

 

[Linny]

Antonio

Joesitz - wow. I'm impressed that you knew what Spanish language play Antonio played a gay man. The wealth of knowledge is amazing.
Linny

 

[WindSpirit5]

Re: Antonio

Linny, I dedicated those films of Antonio one paragraph in the reply I'm going to post later today (I don't have time right now to finish the post), so if you want to find out more about them go to <strong>le café</strong>.

 

[mathman444]

SOI

I don't have anything to contribute to the gay cowboy discussion, but about the televised SOI show in general:

Am I the only one who thought that this show stunk?

Scott, we love you, you had a wonderful career.
Kurt, we love you, you had a wonderful career.
Katerina, we love you, you had a wonderful career.
Meno and Sand, we love you, you had an OK career.
Elena and Anton, we love you, you had a wonderful amateur career. (Since this is your first try I'll be kind and withhold judgement about your future in the pros.)
Alexei, we love you, I hope that your injuries won't prevent you from having a career as a professionl performer.

Good points: Todd and Sale and Pelletiere

I never expected to see an ice skating show that would make me long for Tara.

Sign Yuka! Right now, before the show goes under!

Mathman

 

[Lcp88]

SOI

Not Having Tara doesn't bother me as much as I thought I would. Half the cast is new, and i still consider S&P and Alexei and Todd and B&S ameturs/faces I still recognize. I know, I know, get with the times. Anywhoo. I love that Meno and Sand still skate. They are one of the only teams that I really remember from back in the mid 90's, and they are why I decided to be a pairs skater. I adore them, and I think all they're programs. And its nice now that Todd elegrede is with them. They are all very good friends with each other. The joke around there is "If Jenni Hadn't married Todd Sand, She would have married Todd Eledrege."
Laura

 

[DORISPULASKI]

Re: Gay Rodeo (I just knew it!)

Most of this show left me cold enough that I wasn't even going to read this thread. (I feel asleep in the middle of the show and missed the gay or not gay cowbody number). Then when it developed so many pages, I knew one the the Goldenskate endless topics was developing:
1. MK?
2. religion?
3. homosexuality?
4. Katia?
5. Sasha?
6. FUNNY PICTURES? OH I SO HOPED IT WAS FUNNY
PICTURES! MORE ANIMAL SPIRITS!! (Since, MK,
Sasha, and Katia are not in SOI) I did not see
how religion or sex had gotten into it....HOPE HOPE

And now I am so disappointed...it was sex after all.

As to whether cowboys have a gay stereotype:

Real cowboys spent long periods of time without
women
Like sailors (RE Village People In The Navy)
Like prisoners in jail (Consider the so called
Scared Straight program to scare
youngsters away from jail with the
threats of among other things homosexual
rape. Also Sleepers.
Like lumberjacks, woodsmen (Deliverance)
Like men in the YMCA (RE Village People YMCA)

You can now guess whether cowboys might have a gay stereotype and whether there was any truth there...

A brief study course to determine who might conceivably have a gay stereotype can be taken by looking at the cover
of the first Village People Album.

Personally, I am sorry that I missed anything that John Zimmerman skated in.

Could someone (IDLE where are you?) think of a funny picture thread themed on SOI?

Forlorn, and disappointed, dpp

 

[Grgranny]

Re: Gay Rodeo (I just knew it!)

I've known many cowboys, gay - no, horny - yes.
:rollin:

 

[Idleracer]

Re: Gay Rodeo (I just knew it!)

[c]<font size=4><font color="#400060">I did manage to find one picture. So whaddya think? Do they look like the Village People or what? (click on the little Square below)
<a href="http://www.starsonice.com/images/dbimages/guys-l_3.jpg" target="_new"></a>
<img src="http://www.icesk8.com/clipart/skating.gif" Height=138 Width=242>

 

[Idleracer]

Re: Too Gay or Not Too Gay?

[c]<font size=4><font color="#006000">I've also discovered that last years "Stars On Ice" had an all-female number. Other than Agelika's hand on Tara's shoulder, there does not appear to be any signs of lesbian activity (darn). Notice that the three tall ones are in the back and the three short ones are in the front.
Click on this: <a href="http://www.ice-dance.com/krylova/gallery/01soi/025_25a.jpg" target="_new"></a>

 

[DORISPULASKI]

Re: Gay Rodeo (I just knew it!)

Idle, thanks for the picture. Seriously, they look like those sad little groups of people outside large factories smoking in the rain because smoking in the workplace is forbidden, but addiction is not reasonable. They have that same huddled look. Sad, sad,

dpp

 

[DORISPULASKI]

Re: Too Gay or Not Too Gay?

Idle, you're right.
No sexual activity evident at all.

All lined up liked going to the lavatory when you were a kid in grammar school, boys in one line, girls in the other. You expect that Tara is going to turn around and say, "TEAACCHER. Angelika is TOUCHING ME!!!WAAH!"
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\">

But all dressed like Tonya Harding in '94 SP-old west bar girl. Did the choreographer of SOI have a thing for Amanda Blake (Miss Kitty) in Gunsmoke? What is it with these western themed same sex skating numbers?

dpp

 

[MaryMotorMouth]

Re: Gay Rodeo (I just knew it!)

Ah, Idle, thanks for the picture of the guys number.

As I suspected, they aren't wearing "real" cowboy hats, they are wearing cowboys hats that famous people wear when the want to convey that sexy cowboy look.

But I must say, their backsides would definitely help warm up a camp site!

 

[dlksk8fan]

Re: Gay Rodeo (I just knew it!)

This is what Sandra Bezic said about the supposedly "gay" cowboy routine. One thing Bezic knew she wanted was a piece that featured some MACHO attitude. "I decided immediately I wanted a guy number. Obviously , because of the running order, all the guys couldn't be in it. We've got a number with six guys. It's really alot of fun and very physical. They're adorable and such a pleasure to work with." Right from the choreographer herself (taken from IFS mag).

So it's a MACHO thing:smokin:

 

[Joesitz]

Re: Antonio

Linny - Almodovar won several oscars. One I remember, Antonio was sitting in the audience applauding wildly when Almodovar's name was announced.

Straights and gays get along just fine. Why it becomes such a thing in golden skate is so archaic for me.

Sandra did a nice job on the cowboy number - not unlike Agnes deMille, and for me to give praise to a show number is most unusual.

Tara was missing, well......

Joe