State of Russian Men's Figure Skating 2015-2016

[Abstractor]

... As long as kovtun is trying five quads he will be number one.

No matter how many quads he could be talking of he is not the one to deliver the goods - if they scrap him for Kolyada he would loose his inflated PCS' level as 1st russain man and would not be competitive at any serious level.

 

[silverlake22]

No, the competition in Russia is still tough and he couldn't skate at Worlds sometimes: CSKA has Kovtun, Pitkeev, Voronov and Samarin, Olympic school has Kolyada and Alyiev, there are only 2 spots for worlds.

Also this is better for Latvia, now they have two good skaters like Deniss and Angelina.

Deniss is great but I think he's better off skating for Latvia. There's more competition in Russia and he'd have to take 2 seasons off to switch, meaning no Olympics in 2018.

It's exciting to see Latvia making a name for itself in the skating World. Deniss and Angelina are great and Diana Nikitina was impressive at Youth Olympics and Junior Worlds. Thanks to Angelina getting 2 spots for Euros next season, I expect we'll see Nikitina there as well and there's a chance they could maybe get 3 spots!

 

[silverlake22]

Kolyada received too much at the PCS side, they could have arranged the transition of the team leadership from Kovtun, let's see how he could justify that advance in the coming season.

Disagree. Kolyada's PCS were fair, if anything he was lowballed in the SP. In the FS he skated a blinder and still received lower PCS than Adam Rippon (skating in an earlier group) and Shoma Uno (whose performance was interrupted by the awful bellyflop on the quad), I don't see how that's unfair? His PCS were lower earlier in the season because he was pretty unknown, by Worlds there was a bit more buzz about him and he skated great so he received the PCS he deserved.

Kolyada is a great skater, and pretty much all the commentators were raving about him - NBC, CBC, Eurosport, BBC, IceNetwork. Even David Wilson was talking favorably about him in his TSL interview. The BBC commentators even said that they thought Kolyada deserved to medal after Patrick Chan unraveled in his FS. So really, Kolyada has a lot going for him. Yes, the huge gorgeous jumps are probably his best asset, but he is a lot more than just jumps. His spin positions are also great, he has charisma and musicality, knows how to perform, and does a good job staying in the character of his programs. I hope Russia realizes how great this guy is and how lucky they are to have him. Kolyada really caught my attention this season and I was excited to see all the commentators rave about him. I know TAT is a fan too.

 

[blue_idealist]

I fear if they swap Kovtun for Kolyada as the 1st russian man they could start putting to much pressure on him and all that hype that follows up which might not bode well for the skater.

Yep, Gachinski comes to mind.

 

[Abstractor]

Disagree. Kolyada's PCS were fair, if anything he was lowballed in the SP. In the FS he skated a blinder and still received lower PCS than Adam Rippon (skating in an earlier group) and Shoma Uno (whose performance was interrupted by the awful bellyflop on the quad), I don't see how that's unfair? His PCS were lower earlier in the season because he was pretty unknown, by Worlds there was a bit more buzz about him and he skated great so he received the PCS he deserved.

Kolyada is a great skater, and pretty much all the commentators were raving about him - NBC, CBC, Eurosport, BBC, IceNetwork. Even David Wilson was talking favorably about him in his TSL interview. The BBC commentators even said that they thought Kolyada deserved to medal after Patrick Chan unraveled in his FS. So really, Kolyada has a lot going for him. Yes, the huge gorgeous jumps are probably his best asset, but he is a lot more than just jumps. His spin positions are also great, he has charisma and musicality, knows how to perform, and does a good job staying in the character of his programs. I hope Russia realizes how great this guy is and how lucky they are to have him. Kolyada really caught my attention this season and I was excited to see all the commentators rave about him. I know TAT is a fan too.

Both Adam and especially Uno are in a different league in terms of the skating skills and presentation, Kolyada is far behind them. Russia will need to send their young breed to Canada at their 10s to try to develope a skater who could compete on the PCS side with the greats.

 

[seabm7]

Yep, Gachinski comes to mind.

I hope this time, the Powers That Be of the Russian federation learned the lesson, and give him enough time to develop nicely. Not everyone can become another Plush.

 

[Abstractor]

.... another Plush.

Pluschenko-2 would of been not competitive in the environ men skating is in now - this approach (jumping all the elements in the first 1.5 min) would not allow even the TES mark be on par with the current bests. So the more the russians deviate from their worked out path of raising the stars - the better for them.

 

[Pippuripihvi]

Both Adam and especially Uno are in a different league in terms of the skating skills and presentation, Kolyada is far behind them. Russia will need to send their young breed to Canada at their 10s to try to develope a skater who could compete on the PCS side with the greats.

Hahaha
Like Nguyen or Reynolds or Firus.

gmyers, is that you?

 

[vorravorra]

I fear if they swap Kovtun for Kolyada as the 1st russian man they could start putting to much pressure on him and all that hype that follows up which might not bode well for the skater.

Kolyada comes across as mentally stable and not likely to unravel under pressure. In fact, this and not his skating was referred to in one of the comments as his greatest advantage compared to the other Russian men. I have no idea why the rest of them are all such fragile little snowflakes, but at least hopefully there is one exception. Plus of course there is the factor of age - 21 is a better age to become famous than 16 in terms of coping with the effects.

 

[gmyers]

According to his coach, Kolyada can already do quad salchow (which is what Lakernik is referring to), and it is going into the program next year. They are also planning to spend the next year learning quad lutz. Mikhail said in an interview that he'd tried it and he could do the four rotations but not the landing, so they were going to work on that. So the future doesn't look too dim at the moment.

He needs technical upgrades to be russian euro world Olympic champion. As long as its understood people don't want him to upgrade just to be doing more quads. Its about getting Russia back to winning euros olympics worlds. That should be kolyada a focus and job and what Lakernik is talking about.

No matter how many quads he could be talking of he is not the one to deliver the goods - if they scrap him for Kolyada he would loose his inflated PCS' level as 1st russain man and would not be competitive at any serious level.

This is true but the Russian fed is trying to find right vehicles for him. He hates artistry and Pcs so they give him I can't dance but you still need to perform and that's what needs to be worked on. They need to find anything in the artistic area that he connects with. Even its really out of the mainstream it now is an emergency. Look at what his Pcs is in russian nationals because he tries five quads. Russia is not wrong that jumps are important and quads are necessary for success for most but it can't be the only thing.

Both Adam and especially Uno are in a different league in terms of the skating skills and presentation, Kolyada is far behind them. Russia will need to send their young breed to Canada at their 10s to try to develope a skater who could compete on the PCS side with the greats.

Being sent to Canada or us is very important. Its not a coincedence that hanyu, Fernandez, train in Canada and Canadians and Americans have a huge advantage over Russians. Look how andrei rogozine won world jr championship. Jin winning world bronze shows how jumpers need to have quad lutz triple toe combos to be successful. That's what kovtun would need quad lutz or quad loop triple toe combos or quad axel. That's what "jumpers" need now.

Hahaha
Like Nguyen or Reynolds or Firus.

gmyers, is that you?

What they say is right because where do the best train? Under orser in Canada.

 

[vorravorra]

This is true but the Russian fed is trying to find right vehicles for him. He hates artistry and Pcs so they give him I can't dance but you still need to perform and that's what needs to be worked on. They need to find anything in the artistic area that he connects with. Even its really out of the mainstream it now is an emergency. Look at what his Pcs is in russian nationals because he tries five quads. Russia is not wrong that jumps are important and quads are necessary for success for most but it can't be the only thing.

I don't think Kovtun's problems are artistic. He has said himself that he can do just fine in training, but once the pressure to perform is on, he folds. A better program won't fix that.

 

[gmyers]

I don't think Kovtun's problems are artistic. He has said himself that he can do just fine in training, but once the pressure to perform is on, he folds. I better program won't fix that.

To be honest he has problems in all areas. He doesn't have the technique on jumps to be consistent in them. Even if his jumps were landed he couldn't win against Fernandez. His jumps also don't have the difficulty of Jin.

 

[silverlake22]

Both Adam and especially Uno are in a different league in terms of the skating skills and presentation, Kolyada is far behind them. Russia will need to send their young breed to Canada at their 10s to try to develope a skater who could compete on the PCS side with the greats.

Rippon's presentation may be very good but his SS aren't that good, he's not the fastest and uses his back a lot in his crossovers, it's similar to the way Radionova skates. Shoma does have great SS but his performance was off at Worlds, I think moving all the jumps around made him get a bit off his music, and then the fall on quad really sucked the air out of his program, it was far from his best skate.

So, while I agree that when all 3 men skate their best, Kolyada perhaps deserves the lowest PCS of the 3, I don't think the difference should be that pronounced, particularly between Rippon and Kolyada. I would argue that Kolyada actually has better SS and basics than Rippon, though Rippon is superior in choreography, performance, and execution. I thought the placements in the mens event were accurate, if anything I think Kolyada could have been 3rd.

 

[vorravorra]

To be honest he has problems in all areas. He doesn't have the technique on jumps to be consistent in them. Even if his jumps were landed he couldn't win against Fernandez. His jumps also don't have the difficulty of Jin.

Yes, I agree that he has other issues. I just wanted to say that I do not think Kovtun's main problem is artistic.

 

[vorravorra]

So, while I agree that when all 3 men skate their best, Kolyada perhaps deserves the lowest PCS of the 3, I don't think the difference should be that pronounced, particularly between Rippon and Kolyada. I would argue that Kolyada actually has better SS and basics than Rippon, though Rippon is superior in choreography, performance, and execution. I thought the placements in the mens event were accurate, if anything I think Kolyada could have been 3rd.

Choreography, performance and execution can be improved. Ilia Averbukh has actually offered Mikhail help with that part, although I have no idea if it'll come to anything.

 

[silverlake22]

Choreography, performance and execution can be improved. Ilia Averbukh has actually offered Mikhail help with that part, although I have no idea if it'll come to anything.

I'd love to see him work with Averbukh. And as you said, the components where Mikhail isn't as strong are the ones that he can improve with the right choreography and programs. I think his basics and SS are strong and he does have performance quality to him as you can see in the galas, I just feel his programs this season weren't that great. I mean, they weren't bad and he got into character, but he is capable of taking on more I think. Bear in mind that Adam Rippon is also 5-6 years older than Kolyada and his artistry has come a long way over the years. Kolyada has all the basic aspects to be a top skater down already, so I think he can afford to put some focus on the artistic side in coming years and if he does he could really go places I think. He is a special talent.

 

[silverlake22]

Yes, I agree that he has other issues. I just wanted to say that I do not think Kovtun's main problem is artistic.

Kovtun's main problem is that he's a bit of a headcase IMO. He isn't that strong artistically and his jump technique isn't the best, but he's still a talented technical skater with enough quality in the other areas of his skating that he should be capable of finishing in the top 10 at a World Championship as opposed to 18th. He seems to be into hip hop and street music, his persona seems kinda rough and tumble, I'm not surprised he doesn't seem that interested in his skating career, but at the same time, I think getting programs that tapped into his personality more could help. The Genesis SP was a step in the right direction for him, but that FS was just kitschy and bad even with clean jumps. Vocals are allowed in competitive programs now, so I honestly wouldn't mind if Kovtun tried skating to a hip hop piece for one of his programs in the upcoming season. I mean, straight up rap probably wouldn't work but I think some hip hop, R&B medley could, and if he liked what he was skating to and got into it, who knows, he could become more motivated and consistent.

There are a lot of talented Russian men competing at the moment, some of them look to have brighter futures than Kovtun as it now stands, but Kovtun actually does have his own merits, like his ability to land 2 different types of quads in both SP and FS. The way I see it, Kovtun can stay relevant in the Russian men's field if he wants to put in the work and fight for his spot on these teams. If he doesn't care, though, then it does seem likely that someone else will surpass him and take his spot on the Olympic team. Right now Kolyada is looking good for 2018 Olympics but the second spot seems wide open, Petrov is consistent but doesn't have a quad yet, Aliev and Pitkeev have the quad and lots of talent but are inconsistent and injury-prone, Kovtun is Kovtun, Voronov and Menshov are getting old.

 

[vorravorra]

I'd love to see him work with Averbukh. And as you said, the components where Mikhail isn't as strong are the ones that he can improve with the right choreography and programs. I think his basics and SS are strong and he does have performance quality to him as you can see in the galas, I just feel his programs this season weren't that great. I mean, they weren't bad and he got into character, but he is capable of taking on more I think. Bear in mind that Adam Rippon is also 5-6 years older than Kolyada and his artistry has come a long way over the years. Kolyada has all the basic aspects to be a top skater down already, so I think he can afford to put some focus on the artistic side in coming years and if he does he could really go places I think. He is a special talent.

Mikhail enjoys choreography and the artistic side of skating, so he should definitely be open to working on that. And he actually performs better in front of a large audience, drawing energy from it in the way theater actors do, which is a very lucky quality for a skater. Too many seem to have the opposite reaction. So there is a lot of potential for improvement.

 

[vorravorra]

Kovtun's main problem is that he's a bit of a headcase IMO.

Yes, exactly. That a better program definitely won't fix. Something similar has been said about Pitkeev (not "headcase" but lacking stable psychological makeup). You can be as talented as anything, but if you fall apart at crucial moments it will all come to nothing. Problem is, there isn't the sort of competition in men's skating in Russia that there is in women's, where there are a bunch of talented girls waiting to take the place of any headcase. More of a need to work with what you have.

 

[gmyers]

Yes, I agree that he has other issues. I just wanted to say that I do not think Kovtun's main problem is artistic.

I agree its not his main problem but I see the consistency issues as one of horrible technique. His quad salchow is not good. You can't get that consistent! How could anyone do that? So I don't know if he is a headcase because with that technique its not clear.