He needs to go challenge cup and gardenia trophy!
State of the U.S. Men's Figure Skating for 2014-15
- Thread starter Mrs. P
- Start date
He needs to go challenge cup and gardenia trophy!
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2012
But Worlds' will be the biggest competition Joshua has been to, I believe? I think it would be rather hard on him, after the difficult season - two difficult seasons? - he's had to go from that and then "cold turkey" be thrown into Worlds' ("to the wolves" as Sandpiper aptly called it). I think it's better to "warm up" with 4CC first - which is also a big international competition, but that doesn't come with quite those... intimidating associations that Worlds' may.
Josh might medal to with his skate. I actually think Josh is by far the most complete of the US men. (I'm not convinced at all about Adam's quad lutz)... He needs more experience....Yes he's less consistent than Jason due to injuries and also HARDER programs.
I don't think its smart to leave him behind because he is our most complete skater.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
But Adam is not getting any younger. Maybe he will retire soon.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2014
Adam needs to experience 4lz in a big competition before Worlds.
I think they're sending the top3 at Nats to 4CC for two different reasons: the first of them is to show their programs in front of the international judges and adjust things if necessary. Josh was injured during the GP season and his only appearance wasn't very good for that reason, and Adam has changed his short program, they need a bit of input from international judges before Worlds. The second reason is also directed towards Adam and Josh: improving their World Standings placements so they get a better draw at Worlds. Adam is currently #21, Josh is #30 (Even though Chan (3), Machida (5), Max (10), Takahashi (11), Ricky (12), Menshov (13), Petrov (16), Jeremy (24) aren't doing Worlds for sure, so virtually Adam is #14 and Josh #22) Euros are this week and the European skaters will improve their placements. With strong 4CC showings they could aspire to skate in the last 2 groups in the short program, and this way getting a bit of PCS help because judges tend to score higher the later into the short they are.
The reason to send Jason, who doesn't really meet the criteria mentioned above (same programs as in the GP season and #14 at World standings, virtually #8 for Worlds) is a bit psychological. He didn't have an outstanding GP season and is in a better moment now. Showcasing that in front of a panel of international judges won't harm him at all.
I agree that Max should deserve something but seeing things with perspective, the decision makes sense. Also Max is currently #10 at World Standings so he won't have any kind of problem getting 2 GPs for next season. And don't forget that 4CC is in 2 weeks, maybe one of the top3 decides to focus on Worlds and decides not to go to 4CC.
The reason to send Jason, who doesn't really meet the criteria mentioned above (same programs as in the GP season and #14 at World standings, virtually #8 for Worlds) is a bit psychological. He didn't have an outstanding GP season and is in a better moment now. Showcasing that in front of a panel of international judges won't harm him at all.
I agree that Max should deserve something but seeing things with perspective, the decision makes sense. Also Max is currently #10 at World Standings so he won't have any kind of problem getting 2 GPs for next season. And don't forget that 4CC is in 2 weeks, maybe one of the top3 decides to focus on Worlds and decides not to go to 4CC.
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- Joined
- Oct 31, 2014
You sum it up quite well. :agree: I feel Max skated well and his quad is more reliable than anyone in the top 3 at Nationals, but all threes just need more experiences.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2014
Crawling out of even longer threads, just coming back to this one.
Bravo, TMC, great analysis
Jason plus two guys-with-quads-who-happen-to-skate-well: a hope for bringing in fans *and* medals.
Thank you!
I forgot to add to my analysis that not supporting him would - at least to me - be even more surprising.
It's not like he's struggled in comparison to the other US men.
When you look at his CS & GP results (and both his GPs were pretty far from his usual consistency), Jason is after all the US man who managed to get the best results score- and podium-wise. So it would hardly make sense for them to reason like this: "the evidence proves that he's our best senior man at the moment, but we still shouldn't support him because one of the others might do better".
So though he was very generously scored at Nationals without a quad, his equally quadless international scores were nothing to snort at, at least compared to the rest of the US field.
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2012
True, true. It's just a shame, I wish they could have sent him. Sports can be cruel like that.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
He does have two GP medals and was less than a point off of bronze at 4CC two years ago (but unfortunately had a poor SP). Worlds-wise though he's middle-tier and like Reynolds/Voronov/Mura/Brezina he'll never get top-level PCS, which is unfortunate because he's one of the more consistent quad technicians in the field.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
Plus Max has won the International Classic in SLC for all three years of its existence.
Max is certainly more consistent on the quad then the rest of the U.S. men. But he's been kind of all over the place as far as execution.
Even at US nationals his +GOE for the element ranged from -0.57 in the SP to -0.29 for his first one in the FS to +2.00 for the second one in combo.
At Skate Canada he got +1.29 in the SP for the 4S-2T combo, but in the FS (which was really good) his solo 4S got just .43 GOE and his combo got -1.57 points.
So clearly he can DO the jump, but he isn't consistent as far as getting a high-level of execution on it. Sure the BV matters, but you really should be getting +GOE on your money jump, not losing points.
Even at US nationals his +GOE for the element ranged from -0.57 in the SP to -0.29 for his first one in the FS to +2.00 for the second one in combo.
At Skate Canada he got +1.29 in the SP for the 4S-2T combo, but in the FS (which was really good) his solo 4S got just .43 GOE and his combo got -1.57 points.
So clearly he can DO the jump, but he isn't consistent as far as getting a high-level of execution on it. Sure the BV matters, but you really should be getting +GOE on your money jump, not losing points.
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- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
I think 4CC is perfect competition for Jason to try quad, but propably this is not going to happen
I hate to push the quad talk, but I actually agree it could be a really good opportunity for a first attempt.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2014
His first time at 4CC?
I'd imagine the best stratergy would be to follow a strategy that they themselves came up with: trying it out at lo-lev summer comps.
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2014
Max's problems remind me of the old chicken and the egg question: is he being lowballed internationally because the US is holding him down or is the US holding him down because he gets lowballed internationally?
Either way, I agree that it's both sad to see him left off the teams this year and understandable, because I can't think of who should be left off in his favor.
Either way, I agree that it's both sad to see him left off the teams this year and understandable, because I can't think of who should be left off in his favor.
