State of the U.S. Men's Figure Skating for 2014-15

[Meoima]

Even Chan's non-quad jumps, when landed, are bigger and of better quality than Jason's (well, we can debate the axel... Chan's is bigger but I think his landings are quite wonky even if he doesn't step out).
When I watch Chan, I don't really think of his jumps unless he falls. They're big enough to support the program. With Jason, there are times (e.g. Nebelhorn SP) where I actually note, "Oh, the jumps are a bit small" when I'm watching.

Come to think of it, I also have the same feeling about PChiddy's jumps. I never actually care about the height and the distance his jumps cover. He has great flow in and out so the jumps have become one with his programs (except when he messed up). That's the quality of him.
I enjoy Jason very much, but I agree with you that sometimes I do have the feeling: "oh his jumps here are tight."

 

[TMC]

Interesting, live can look quite different from on camera. But hey, at nationals he was on fire and I think that he tends to slow down from his good-average speed when he's nervous, hence the UR issues. I remember in his nerve-y LP skates at Sochi even Kurt Browning mentioned that he seemed to slow down. That's why, in his specific case I think that it's something that he could/should (and probably is ) working on that will help so that even when he's nervous he won't tend to UR because he'll still have the speed to back up his jumps. I don't think there's anything wrong with his jumping technique.

I read in an interview - I think it was either during or just before the Olys - that he is in fact working on his speed specifically, with a dedicated coach. I seem to remember that he does this training not at Monument but at the World Arena. Correct me if I'm wrong, please....

 

[karne]

Jason and his team can dawdle with technical advancement if they wish, but I don't think that will be to Jason's advantage. Lest I am being misunderstood, I very much enjoy Jason's skating, but if he continues to lag technically he will be left behind competitively. He not only has to deal with his current competitors, but the promising ones that are on the horizon that he will be in competition with in 2018 and earlier. I suspect a coaching change might take place in the not too distant future.

Yawn. Because it's not like Jason's fans haven't heard THAT before. Change coach, change coach, that's all the critics ever say to him. That's all they ever said to him during the long years waiting for the triple Axel - and he got it, while know-it-alls like you swore up and down he'd never get it while with Kori.

To be honest, I'm more concerned about Jason's UR calls than his lack of a quad. With the way the rules are going, and obsession with URs/edges, Jason's URs could do him in. I'm worried he'll become like Mao Asada, with the judges eyeing every jump after he gets a reputation as a UR'er.

Naw, he only does it in extraordinary situations.

He's nowhere near as fast as Max Aaron -- but Max Aaron is really fast.

There's no-one in the world faster than Max Aaron!

 

[mrrice]

" Jason and his team can dawdle with technical advancement if they wish, but I don't think that will be to Jason's advantage. Lest I am being misunderstood, I very much enjoy Jason's skating, but if he continues to lag technically he will be left behind competitively. He not only has to deal with his current competitors, but the promising ones that are on the horizon that he will be in competition with in 2018 and earlier. I suspect a coaching change might take place in the not too distant future."

ICEY, say it isn't so. Jason change coaches are you crazy :scratch: The best coaches in any field have become great by knowing their students in every way. Their strengths and weaknesses. Their personalities, moods, as well as when to push and when not to. It is no fluke that Jason has stayed free from major injury as he continues to move up the ranks. He and his coach have never been the type to say " Why is Joshua constantly beating Jason ? "

Kori is very smart. Jason may be afraid of quads, not because he's a baby, he may be worried about injuring himself and missing an entire season. There are times and places for everything. Clearly, Joshua is technically superior to Jason but he got injured and with all his tech skills, he still lost to Jason at Nationals.

I wish more people would recognize how far Jason has come without a quad and remember it was not long ago he didn't have a triple axle. Do I think that Jason is a better skater than Joshua ? No, and if Joshua skates clean I think he should beat Jason every time. However, I think Jason's a better competitor than Joshua and that's why he beat him and made the Olympic Team.

Change coaches ???? I just made the Olympic Team !

 

[karne]

However, I think Jason's a better competitor than Joshua and that's why he beat him and made the Olympic Team.

I think Jason's a better competitor than Joshua, but I don't think that's why he made the Olympic team and Joshua didn't. The writing was on the wall for Joshua the moment he sprained his ankle at CoR and had to withdraw. Between that and the flu, making the podium was an achievement in itself for Joshua.

 

[mrrice]

I think Jason's a better competitor than Joshua, but I don't think that's why he made the Olympic team and Joshua didn't. The writing was on the wall for Joshua the moment he sprained his ankle at CoR and had to withdraw. Between that and the flu, making the podium was an achievement in itself for Joshua.

This a great example of why it's better for Jason to do what he can do and let the chips fall where they fall. I don't think Kori, or Jason for that matter, think Jason is a better skater than Joshua. ( Whom I love )

I've seen Jason lose to Joshua several times and he never seems like he's been ripped off. At their last Worlds, I think Jason was happy just being close to Joshua. I think everyone in skating including the judges know that Joshua is a fantastic skater. I also believe that most people find Jason unique, and very smart.

 

[karne]

This a great example of why it's better for Jason to do what he can do and let the chips fall where they fall. I don't think Kori, or Jason for that matter, think Jason is a better skater than Joshua. ( Whom I love )

I've seen Jason lose to Joshua several times and he never seems like he's been ripped off. At their last Worlds, I think Jason was happy just being close to Joshua. I think everyone in skating including the judges know that Joshua is a fantastic skater. I also believe that most people find Jason unique, and very smart.

I don't know that Joshua is necessarily a much better skater than Jason...I think they are just both very different. Joshua has that divine air position, gorgeous lines and extensions, but he doesn't project the same way Jason does.

What we haven't seen from Joshua since he became a Senior internationally is that sort of clean, polished skate that made him JWC and got him that first Sr National medal. Once he does, I think he'll be all right. I'd love to know why he seems to be prone to sprained ankles. Either he's galactically unlucky, or this is a leftover from the break.

 

[jace93]

What we haven't seen from Joshua since he became a Senior internationally is that sort of clean, polished skate that made him JWC and got him that first Sr National medal. Once he does, I think he'll be all right. I'd love to know why he seems to be prone to sprained ankles. Either he's galactically unlucky, or this is a leftover from the break.

Could he possibly have sprained his ankle when he was very young? Hanyu had an accident of that type when he was at the start of his career and even now he's quite prone to ankle injuries...

 

[karne]

Could he possibly have sprained his ankle when he was very young? Hanyu had an accident of that type when he was at the start of his career and even now he's quite prone to ankle injuries...

Joshua has had a LOT of injuries since he was young, but what I am thinking of is the broken leg/ankle (I can never remember exactly which it was) at 2011 Nationals...

 

[Icey]

Yawn. Because it's not like Jason's fans haven't heard THAT before. Change coach, change coach, that's all the critics ever say to him. That's all they ever said to him during the long years waiting for the triple Axel - and he got it, while know-it-alls like you swore up and down he'd never get it while with Kor



There's no-one in the world faster than Max Aaron!

I have never said Jason should change coaches; I have said I think he probably will. Show me one posting where I said he would never get a triple axel with Kori. And you dare to call others know-it-alls!!!!!

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Maybe off topic and maybe not. Mariah Bell is one of my favorite American girls. Yet...she really lacks in the technical deparart. Her choreo and movement on the ice are amongst my favorites yet she is going to have a hard time being competitive (sound familiar) when there are 14yr olds out there putting up way better scores than her in juniors. So ok...already getting way OT...to tie it into this thread....is this maybe actually a coaching issue? I've no ill will or negative notions on Kori. I just honestly wonder if the technical issues are related? Jason and Mariah share the same coach I believe but if Im wrong on that ...oh boy

I'm not intending to bash but instead wondering...is it the skaters themselves and their abilities that are the issue or is it coaching? Then again....I've never really had an issue with Jason's tech abilities personally but there is no denying the chatter.

 

[ice coverage]

Maybe off topic and maybe not. Mariah Bell is one of my favorite American girls. Yet...she really lacks in the technical deparart. Her choreo and movement on the ice are amongst my favorites yet she is going to have a hard time being competitive (sound familiar) when there are 14yr olds out there putting up way better scores than her in juniors. So ok...already getting way OT...to tie it into this thread....is this maybe actually a coaching issue? I've no ill will or negative notions on Kori. I just honestly wonder if the technical issues are related? Jason and Mariah share the same coach I believe but if Im wrong on that ...oh boy

I'm not intending to bash but instead wondering...is it the skaters themselves and their abilities that are the issue or is it coaching?

Mariah Bell joined Team Kori only a few months ago -- so Mariah is in an entirely different situation from Jason, whose one and only coach throughout his career has been Kori.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Ok...thanks. Hopefully she can get it going because she had a good outing at Glacier Falls IIRC

I guess we'll see how it goes. Appreciate the info greatly. Back to discussing the men.

 

[noskates]

I would be incredibly surprised if Jason changed coaches. I think the relationship he has with Kori is very solid and she's more than a coach but like a family member. I think she keeps Jason grounded and able to handle his nerves. But I also realize people here just like to dissect everybody and everything. I think it's pointless to discuss who is better than whom - it all comes down to who performs the best in competition. I doubt Kori and Jason or any other coach and their student sit around saying things like "well, Joshua is better than you but......" Nationals was a break-thru moment for Jason. Everything came together. His music, his choreography, everything. It didn't for Max and it didn't for Joshua. So many people think Jason will be a has-been without a quad. Maybe. But I still think it's more important to skate a clean, well-choreograped program than to fall on one's butt attempting a quad - or to UR it or 2-foot it like SO MANY of the mean are doing.

 

[Mrs. P]

So I've updated my score tracker to reflect the scores by Nathan Chen at JGP Croatia (he is skating as a senior nationally this year) and Adam Rippon at Finlandia Trophy.

Adam Rippon had a nice comeback in the FS, scoring 152.22. His overall score was 220.75, putting him in 4th among the US men.

Rippon and Chen's TES in the FS actually kicked Jason Brown out of the top 5 in that category, so I suppose that supports whatever panic people want have in that regard.

However, overall, the top 3 overall and in my score tracker (15-13-11-9-7 Top 5 in overall/SP/FS scores + their TES/PCS parts) remain Aaron, Dornbush and Brown.

(This is also on the front page).

The final Senior B before Skate America is next week: Skate Canada Autumn Classic. Alexander Johnson and Ross Miner will have another chance to improve stats (Ross has one GP, Alexander has none). Joshua Farris was originally schedule to compete but opted not to do to some lagging injuries. Tim Dolensky will make his senior international debut there.

See the numbers below.

Score tracker
Max Aaron — 91
Richard Dornbush — 87
Jason Brown — 82
Adam Rippon — 38
Stephen Carriere — 30
Nathan Chen — 23
Ross Miner — 18
Grant Hochstein — 9
Alexander Johnson - 7


OVERALL
Max Aaron 240.22* (U.S. International Classic)
Richard Dornbush 237.28* (Lombardia Trophy)
Jason Brown 237.17 (Nebelhorn Trophy)
Adam Rippon 220.75 (Finlandia Trophy)
Stephen Carriere 219.76* (Ondrej Nepela Trophy)
—
Ross Miner 209.78 (U.S. International Classic)
Nathan Chen 208.16 (JGP Croatia Cup)
Grant Hochstein 204.37* (Lombardia Trophy)
Douglas Razanno 199.57* (U.S. International Classic)
Alexander Johnson 191.41 (Nebelhorn Trophy)
Jordan Moeller 189.81* (U.S. International Classic)
Shotaro Omori 173.54 (ISU Poka der Baluen Schwerter 2014)
Shotaro Omori 165.97 (JGP Ljubljana Cup)


SP
Jason Brown 83.59 (Nebelhorn Trophy)
Richard Dornbush 79.36 (Lombardia Trophy)
Max Aaron 78.96* (U.S. International Figure Skating Classic)
Grant Hochstein 72.92* (Lombardia Trophy)
Nathan Chen 72.57 (JGP Croatia Cup)
——
Stephen Carriere 71.18 (Ondrej Nepela Trophy)
Alexander Johnson 69.20* (Nebelhorn Trophy)
Adam Rippon 68.53 (Finlandia Trophy)
Ross Miner 67.06 (U.S. International Figure Skating Classic)
Shotaro Omori 66.30 ((ISU Poka der Baluen Schwerter 2014)
Douglas Razzano 66.15* (U.S. International Figure Skating Classic)
Jordan Moeller 64.21 (U.S. International Figure Skating Classic)
Shotaro Omori 58.82 (JGP Ljubljana Cup)



SP TES
Jason Brown 43.50
Richard Dornbush 42.51
Max Aaron 41.01
Nathan Chan 40.36
Stephen Carriere 38.33
—-
Grant Hochstein 37.97 -7
Shotaro Omori 35.52
Adam Rippon 34.13
Douglas Razzano 33.85
Alexander Johnson 33.29
Shotaro Omori 32.71
Jordan Moeller 31.71
Ross Miner 30.46


SP PCS
Jason Brown 40.09
Max Aaron 38.95
Richard Dornbush 37.85
Ross Miner 36.60
Alexander Johnson 35.91
—
Adam Rippon 35.40
Grant Hochstein 34.95
Stephen Carriere 33.85
Jordan Moeller 33.50
Douglas Razzano 33.30
Nathan Chen 33.21
Shotaro Omori 30.78 (ISU Poka der Baluen Schwerter 2014)
Shotaro Omori 28.11

FS
Max Aaron 161.26
Richard Dornbush 157.92*
Jason Brown 153.58
Adam Rippon 152.22
Stephen Carriere 148.58*
—
Ross Miner 142.72
Nathan Chen 135,59
Douglas Razzano 133.42*
Grant Hochstein 131.45*
Jordan Moeller 125.60*
Alexander Johnson 122.21*
Shotaro Omori 107.24 ((ISU Poka der Baluen Schwerter 2014)
Shotaro Omori 107.15
-

TES
Max Aaron 83.46
Adam Rippon 77.82 +13
Richard Dornbush 76.92
Stephen Carriere 75.18
Nathan Chen 68.45
—
Jason Brown 67.74 -9
Ross Miner 67.72 -7
Douglas Razzano 64.32
Grant Hochstein 62.35
Jordan Moeller 60.70
Alexander Johnson 53.55
Shotaro Omori 47.43
Shotaro Omori 43.38 (ISU Poka der Baluen Schwerter 2014)


PCS

Jason Brown 85.84*
Richard Dornbush 81.00*
Max Aaron 78.80*
Ross Miner 75.00
Adam Rippon 74.40
—-
Stephen Carriere 73.40*
Grant Hochstein 71.10*
Douglas Razzano 70.10*
Alexander Johnson 69.66*
Nathan Chen 67.14
Jordan Moeller 66.90*
Shotaro Omori 63.86 (ISU Poka der Baluen Schwerter 2014)
Shotaro Omori 60.72

 

[Interspectator]

This is amazing work. Thank you so much.
I'm quite pleased that Richard Dornbush seems to be doing well early this season as well as Jason. Adam Rippon's Jumps looked very shaky in Finlandia, maybe it's just opening jitters?

 

[TMC]

This is amazing work. Thank you so much.
I'm quite pleased that Richard Dornbush seems to be doing well early this season as well as Jason. Adam Rippon's Jumps looked very shaky in Finlandia, maybe it's just opening jitters?

Most of them looked more than decent today in the long

 

[Interspectator]

Most of them looked more than decent today in the long

They did get better towards the second half of the free program and had more flow out of them. I'm just used to seeing a lot more speed going in and out of his jumps, but it's still early season.

EDIT: I just saw the broadcast version and I've revised my opinion. His jumps look fine for the most part. It must have been the shake of the camera that made me think they were not good. Other than a tiny lack of speed out of the jumps at the beginning, they were fine. Heh.

 

[senatormls]

State of the US men: hwell: Not quite a raspberry but uninspiring.

 

[TMC]

Five Challenger events so far, four golds and one silver for US men. That's certainly not a bad way to kick off the season