State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17 | Page 133 | Golden Skate

State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

2014 was a full on PR nightmare that hurt a lot of parties. Since Ashley only got 7th when before nationals she was expected to be just off the podium with a possibility of bronze. She can't count on being bailed out again. they'll probably go with the top three and move on.

Huh? In 2014, Ashley finished two spots ahead of the U.S. #2, Polina, at the Olympics (also one spot ahead of her at Worlds). And the U.S. #3, Mirai, finished 10th (!) in a weak field at Four Continents. How exactly could those results be used as proof that it was a mistake to pick Ashley for the team?
 
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Ugh, Gracie is breaking my heart :drama:.

Maybe she's nursing an injury of some kind? Kinda sad that that's the optimistic possibility....

On Ice Talk, Jackie and/or Nick mentioned that at the NBC Olympics promotional thingy she seemed like the most upbeat, positive one there. They said that, if you knew nothing about their results, it would've seemed like Gracie was coming off of a very successful season.

I'm happy if she's happy. I really hope to see an interview with her soon to get an idea of what her goals are. No point in pretending she's an Olympic team contender if she's happy training at a lower level, and I would think she wouldn't want to face the hype/disappointment cycle of not making the team.
 
Gracie has said in recent interviews (promoting Stars on Ice) that she is excited for the Olympics and the Olympic season, speaking like she expects to make it/do enough to earn it and be at the Olympics next year.

I thought it was a little strange how Nick went out of his way on Ice Talk to say that Gracie was "the most impressive" of the 70 or so athletes that they saw at the photo shoot. It just reminded me a little of how the media tried to paint an optimistic picture before nationals based on how Gracie sounded on the teleconference. I expect Gracie to be on the pre-Olympic media train next season since they already had her on the Today show even after her disappointing nationals performance as a "countdown to the Olympics". Hopefully that does not weigh her down even more.

I am not ready to give up on her yet since it's still really early, but I agree that I don't really understand having NO triples in her exhibition if that is the planned content. Like, not even a triple toe? I also thought that it almost looks as if she is skating with an injury, but it could just be because that's the shape she's currently in.
 
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Huh? In 2014, Ashley finished two spots ahead of the U.S. #2, Polina, at the Olympics (also one spot ahead of her at Worlds). And the U.S. #3, Mirai, finished 10th (!) in a weak field at Four Continents. How exactly could those results be used as proof that it was a mistake to pick Ashley for the team?



I think like an investor, so those results are subpar for the major risk that they took for her. This was the Olympics and also the most watched sport in the Olympics. When they made that decision, all the positive buzz about the ladies event was cast under this controversy. Her sponsors were attacked as though they had anything to do with the decision. The decision cost companies a lot of money.

Ashley needed to redeem herself. The selection committee chose her because they believed she could win a bronze medal based on her GPF results. The only way she could banish the controversy would be to finish just off the podium, like Mirai did. She did not. Which made the criticism go on and make USFS still look bad years later. For instance, last year during the Gabby selection controversy, Ashley defended Gabby on twitter. The savage "once in four year" viewers attacked her and declared she stole Mirai's spot. Two years after the fact! Most of these viewers did not know she just won a worlds silver medal or how much she had improved. And those viewers unfortunately count more than us skating fans that constantly watch.

The increased ratings and attention equate to more money for advertisers and skaters. If we can't have winners in ladies, they just want nice buzz with relatively likable skaters that the audience can cheer for. They had that in Gracie. Ashley, OTOH, few people were cheering for because they didn't know her beyond that awful nationals performance. After all, few Olympic viewers would watch the GP or worlds. So when they saw her lose relative to Gracie, Yulia, and Mao, they didn't see "top ten finish" they saw "loser." Which is fine if there is no controversy. However, when such a risk is taken better results are expected especially when she was perfectly healthy and competed just like everyone else unlike Michelle and Nancy.

None of these viewers know what 4CC is, so Mirai lackluster performance there doesn't matter. They just watched the Olympics and promptly moved on. While Mirai would've finished outside of the top ten, a loss is still a loss from viewers perspective. Worse, they were the same viewers that saw Mirai finish fourth in 2010, so Mirai was better known than Emily and Michelle were and made the backlash was far worse. Corporate investors didn't want their company's name to go down during the second most important advertising event of they year. NBC was probably irritated at the potential loss of ratings because potential fans had been turned off by the decision. USFS was hurt not only by losing potential investors and viewers, but also potential skaters as well. From a financial perspective, it wasn't worth the risk.

This time, they have Nathan and his quads to focus on. NBC doesn't need to focus on ladies as much as last time. They don't need a "potential" bronze medal from ladies. They don't want a controversy clouding over the Olympics. They will most likely go with the top three and save themselves the headache.

However, Ashley's PCS scores are so high, I doubt she'll fall out of the top three again.
 
OTOH, extending that investor metaphor further, Ashley did provide a decent return. After 2014 U.S Nationals:

* She continued to help U.S. secure 3 spots (yes she had help from Karen this year; but she still did well enough)
* She ended the U.S. Ladies medal drought.
* She made two more GPF competitions and medaled at one of them.

That said, I do agree, she does not have the same stock to be chosen for an Olympic spot if she does not finish in the top 3.
 
OTOH, extending that investor metaphor further, Ashley did provide a decent return. After 2014 U.S Nationals:

* She continued to help U.S. secure 3 spots (yes she had help from Karen this year; but she still did well enough)
* She ended the U.S. Ladies medal drought.
* She made two more GPF competitions and medaled at one of them.

That said, I do agree, she does not have the same stock to be chosen for an Olympic spot if she does not finish in the top 3.

After the Olympics don't count. No one watches after the Olympics. Only we avid fans are committed enough to keep up with skating outside of Olympic years. When she goes to nationals again, all of those thing won't matter. She needs to deliver at nationals, because they won't risk any more bad publicity about her during another Olympic game.

Plus she could've done all of these things without having gone to the Olympics. If we're going to lose at ladies, they'll just chose the top three and move on. For worlds they may take a chance, since spots are on the line.
 
Long story short: In the US ladies field post-2006, anyone who can manage a medal at GPF should, 99% of the time, be sent to Worlds/Olympics.

Ashley more than earned her spot in 2014, in spite of her poor Nationals performance.

If Ashley wins a GPF medal this coming season, she will again have earned a spot on the team. If she doesn't (and given her performances last season, this seems most likely), then she'll have to fight for it at Nationals with everyone else.

Ashley seems like the only US lady with even a small shot at getting to GPF, let alone a GPF medal. Karen Chen is wayyyyyy too up and down to make it, unfortunately.
 
After the Olympics don't count. No one watches after the Olympics. Only we avid fans are committed enough to keep up with skating outside of Olympic years. When she goes to nationals again, all of those thing won't matter. She needs to deliver at nationals, because they won't risk any more bad publicity about her during another Olympic game.

Plus she could've done all of these things without having gone to the Olympics. If we're going to lose at ladies, they'll just chose the top three and move on. For worlds they may take a chance, since spots are on the line.

It may not count for the non-viewing audience, but to USFS, who is the decision maker, it DOES count.

And I'd argue that perhaps the validation she received from USFS by giving that spot could have served as some sort of motivation. YMMV, of course.
 
It may not count for the non-viewing audience, but to USFS, who is the decision maker, it DOES count.

And I'd argue that perhaps the validation she received from USFS by giving that spot could have served as some sort of motivation. YMMV, of course.

I seriously doubt it. It may factor in to how she scores at nationals in 2018. However not only for USFS but the USOC, if they had to make the decision again they would probably chose differently. What happens in an Olympic year is all that matters. 21 million people watched and saw Ashley lose. Only 2.1 people saw Ashley win her silver medal two years later.

There was a lot of money and a huge loss of reputation wasted on seventh place finish. From a business perspective, not worth it. While the selection committee may console themselves with a better than ten place finish, the board of directors who look at the fallout of the decision feel differently. If all of them were going to lose, who cares which one goes in the first place? They rely on positive buzz to get more skaters and sponsors. Do you honesty think companies want their brands associated with a controversy like that?

So while it's good to have a world silver medal, it doesn't change the fallout that happened during 2014 or her lack luster results at the games. If she's off the podium again, she's staying home.

I say this all as a Ashley fan. But being in business makes you very jaded.
 
I seriously doubt it. It may factor in to how she scores at nationals in 2018. However not only for USFS but the USOC, if they had to make the decision again they would probably chose differently. What happens in an Olympic year is all that matters. 21 million people watched and saw Ashley lose. Only 2.1 people saw Ashley win her silver medal two years later.

There was a lot of money and a huge loss of reputation wasted on seventh place finish. From a business perspective, not worth it. While the selection committee may console themselves with a better than ten place finish, the board of directors who look at the fallout of the decision feel differently. If all of them were going to lose, who cares which one goes in the first place? They rely on positive buzz to get more skaters and sponsors. Do you honesty think companies want their brands associated with a controversy like that?

So while it's good to have a world silver medal, it doesn't change the fallout that happened during 2014 or her lack luster results at the games. If she's off the podium again, she's staying home.

I say this all as a Ashley fan. But being in business makes you very jaded.

To clarify, I'm talking more about how USFS might have seen the situation post-Sochi, not about her prospects for 2018. I think USFS is not wringing their hands over their decision, TBH. Ashley has more than shown prior-and-after the fact that she was generally reliable as a Team USA player. Aside from the 2014 Olympic team selection, she been relatively low-maintenance.

As for sponsors -- wining medals is not the only requirement to get buzz and endorsements. There are plenty of athletes who receive endorsements even if they don't get the highest-caliber results.

Again, I think that she will need a top 3 finish this time around not because of the 2014 decision, but because she had had lackluster results this past season.
 
Long story short: In the US ladies field post-2006, anyone who can manage a medal at GPF should, 99% of the time, be sent to Worlds/Olympics.

Ashley more than earned her spot in 2014, in spite of her poor Nationals performance.

If Ashley wins a GPF medal this coming season, she will again have earned a spot on the team. If she doesn't (and given her performances last season, this seems most likely), then she'll have to fight for it at Nationals with everyone else.

Ashley seems like the only US lady with even a small shot at getting to GPF, let alone a GPF medal. Karen Chen is wayyyyyy too up and down to make it, unfortunately.

I totally agree with this. Especially in an Olympic season - if you make it to the GPF that season, then you have shown the ability to be very competitive internationally (not just light it up at Nationals), and making the GPF/medalling at the GPF also means you have to show this ability multiple times. I'm not saying the GPF should be a bye, but if it were up to me, I would immediately give that skater consideration for the Olympics. If they bomb Nationals, then they should be sent to 4CC against other skaters vying for the final Olympic spots, to gauge who is ready -- one bad competition domestically does not counter 3 or more excellent competitions internationally. The Nationals is all or nothing approach is risky, and I'm a strong believer in a skater making it to the Olympics based on their body of work, and not just one competition (even if it's Nationals).
 
I totally agree with this. Especially in an Olympic season - if you make it to the GPF that season, then you have shown the ability to be very competitive internationally (not just light it up at Nationals), and making the GPF/medalling at the GPF also means you have to show this ability multiple times. I'm not saying the GPF should be a bye, but if it were up to me, I would immediately give that skater consideration for the Olympics. If they bomb Nationals, then they should be sent to 4CC against other skaters vying for the final Olympic spots, to gauge who is ready -- one bad competition domestically does not counter 3 or more excellent competitions internationally. The Nationals is all or nothing approach is risky, and I'm a strong believer in a skater making it to the Olympics based on their body of work, and not just one competition (even if it's Nationals).

Disagree re: 4CCs, especially in an Olympic year. The timing is all wrong. Someone rock-solid could do well at 4CCs and capitalize on that to do well at Olympics/Worlds, but it doesn't happen very often.

I'm not very mathy and I don't have time to do it, but I don't think success at 4CCs is AT ALL a predictor of success at Olympics/Worlds. GP success, I believe, is.
 
Disagree re: 4CCs, especially in an Olympic year. The timing is all wrong. Someone rock-solid could do well at 4CCs and capitalize on that to do well at Olympics/Worlds, but it doesn't happen very often.

I'm not very mathy and I don't have time to do it, but I don't think success at 4CCs is AT ALL a predictor of success at Olympics/Worlds. GP success, I believe, is.

I understand the timing of 4CC is very close to the Olympics, which is why so many skaters skip it. But if there's a need for a "skate-off" I think something like 4CC would be useful (countries like Russia use Euros after all to determine final spots on their Olympic team, which is just a week earlier). To me, with the Ashley/Mirai debate, USFSA should have said the higher placement of the 3rd and 4th Nationals finishers at 4CC would get to go to the Olympics... even if it might have compromised Sochi performances. Seems fairer.
 
just watched the SOI video of Gracie, she is seriously out of shape, and in no way a state of Olympian figure skater. I dreamed she may use the down-time working on her skating and seriously give it a go for the next OG since she moved to new training place. But apparently not. When a people is depressed(or heart on in it anymore), change of environment may be good. but also could spiral down into something even worse. If Gracie is living alone in her rented apartment in Michigan. Without structure and intervention, and if she is not someone with strong self-control and not extremely motivated. it could easily spiral into laziness and dont give a dump kinda attitude.
I am seriously worried about Gracie's figure skating competitive form and capability. Still hope she can prove me wrong and have a good OG season.
 
I am totally against using 4CC as a skate off for any reason. Good results at 4CC do not translate to good results at worlds. Case in point, Patrick won last year and bombed at worlds. Conversely both Kaetlyn and Gabby had meltdowns at 4CC and are now world medalist. I think it's too close to worlds. It's good for front runners to get out their nerves before worlds, which is why some those that crash at 4CC will rebound at worlds. Conversely, it puts a lot of pressure on those that win to repeat their results.

It's odd that European is only three weeks prior, but seems like a better indicator of how they're going to do at worlds. :scratch2:
 
Gracie's current form may be why she hasn't yet been announced for the Sun Valley ice shows this year. She's a regular headliner there, and there's just one remaining TBA slot on Aug 26 that you would normally expect to be hers.
 
If Gracie isn't ready then Mariah Bell would not disappoint as the final TBD. Her performance at Skate It Forward was really good. There are a few fan cam videos in her fan fest for those interested. :yes:
 
If Gracie isn't ready then Mariah Bell would not disappoint as the final TBD. Her performance at Skate It Forward was really good. There are a few fan cam videos in her fan fest for those interested. :yes:

This is actually a good idea. If Gracie is unprepared, the show host owes it to the audience to get a performer who is prepared to deliver a program worth paying for. I don't know what's up with Gracie but, she can't expect to be paid for subpar performances that could easily be eclipsed by a talented junior. Maybe a nice dose of humble pie would do her some good. It's very difficult to figure out how she's feeling but, she has to know that her skating has hit a low point and she needs to address it ASAP...
 
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I'm so confused about Gracie. We know that last year she got a late start on training and it led to poor results on the grand prix circuit. So you would think she would hit the ground running right away and in interviews she has said that every day will involve training for the olympics. But after what I've seen lately that doesn't seem to be the case at all. I just can't tell if she's not very serious about skating anymore or if she mistakenly thinks she can take time off again and then expect a different result in the fall.
 
I'm so confused about Gracie. We know that last year she got a late start on training and it led to poor results on the grand prix circuit. So you would think she would hit the ground running right away and in interviews she has said that every day will involve training for the olympics. But after what I've seen lately that doesn't seem to be the case at all. I just can't tell if she's not very serious about skating anymore or if she mistakenly thinks she can take time off again and then expect a different result in the fall.

Who knows what Marina's plan is for Gracie to get her into shape. She doesn't have much time since it's already May, but I'll reserve judgement for Sept/Oct when the season starts to heat up.
 
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