State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

[Krunchii]

People are overly hyping Vivian Le.... I would refrain from doing that to stop making her into Gracie Gold #2 who can't live up to the pressure....

Yes I know she's talented, but we will have to wait... So far, she hasn't shown much consistency, especially with the edge jumps, so I'm far from putting all my eggs on her

It's actually more about putting your support behind talented youngsters more consistently and helping to nurture then instead of flipping back and forth. A Junior skater's goals internationally is do well on JGP and then go to Junior Worlds but because you didn't compete at Senior Nationals you don't get to go? Polina wasn't even an alternate for Junior Worlds the year she was the National Junior Champion and they had 3 spots and 3 alternates. It's not so much about hyping Vivian Le but more about the system. Names being brought up are just examples and Vivian happens to be recent.

 

[concorde]

I think part of the problem with this is that in the USA it is seen as acceptable to skate recreationally, or primarily for an athletic burn some calories outlet.[/QUOTE]

I now of alot of figure skating parents out there that are spending over $20k a year. We see figure skating as more than way to burn off calories.

If the goal was just to give our kids to get some exercise, we would be looking at something cheaper.

 

[Mrs. P]

I now of alot of figure skating parents out there that are spending over $20k a year. We see figure skating as more than way to burn off calories.

If the goal was just to give our kids to get some exercise, we would be looking at something cheaper.

And I think this is exactly why we don't have a pipeline of talent in the U.S. I know you all joke about Baby P being a figure skater but to be honest, it is not realistic, for a number of reasons, for her. My husband and I probably could technically afford $20k a year, but that also likely means we wouldn't save much for her college fund or our retirement.

I probably will just have do running races with me and have her join the local youth running club.

Back on the topic: I do think USFS is coming around a little bit regarding giving younger skaters opportunities. They extended more JGP assignments to Novice-level and early juniors. And instead of giving spots to domestic seniors still of JGP age, those folks moved up and did senior Bs.

I think the only reason they haven't changed things as far as junior Worlds spots is that they want the best players who can get max JGP spots.

 

[lyndichee]

Good points, lyndichee. I'm amused, though, by your complaint about my tone. Compared to so very many posts ... derisive, etc. around this forum.

My use of the word "appalled" may sound dramatic to you, but to me it's just an accurate statement of what I felt. I think that Gracie's Rippon3Lutz attempt looked out of sync with the rest of her skating. Gracie doesn't speak to me as far as her artistry goes, but there are a couple of her qualities that I admire and like. The primary one of those is her technique, as everyone says. In my opinion, the arms thing she tried just contradicted what she was going for with the rest of the program, as a performance. But, as long as the only emotion she conveys is triumph when she completes her jumps ... as was demonstrated at TCC fs by the fact that she finally smiled after the solo 3lutz and the final 3S ... then she's not going to get top marks from me. I can see your point -- if she wasn't going for the performance, but to advance her skating and get one under her belt, so to speak. Or even just that she wanted to do it right then.

Going for it at TCC was a good choice if she wishes, as you say, to claim her figure skating goals for herself, as opposed to what audiences and/or coaches see for her. Maybe a few lessons in good technique on that variation from someone well versed (like Adam, LOL) would be in order. I can't, at the moment, think of any Frank Carroll student who did/does the tano or rippon lutz; maybe it's not particularly on his radar.

ETA: Now that I've watched the 2012 video, I can see that she had the technique. Maybe a couple refresher lessons with her former coach would be best.

I agree with you about other posts but because other posts are so "derisive" on the forum, I highly doubt that I would ever be able to have a civilized conversation with them and their logic so I do hope you take it as a compliment

I think it does sound dramatic because the magnitude of a feeling can translate into pressures for skaters. I would think that appalled would apply more to something more severe (SP from Nationals for example) but then again we can't really control our reactions in the moment sometimes.

I agree with you, frankly I don't think her concentrated LP from Nationals was an artistic masterpiece like some say. Her artistry stays is limited to her young energy in my opinion.

Even in 2013: https://youtu.be/pHVFz8W9cWo?t=1m

Higher and bigger lutz, lots of air time. I never worried about her UR'ing there but nowadays I feel like she will UR her 3T due to the lack of air time. I highly doubt with the falling out with her last coach she will go back for some lessons.

 

[mrrice]

OK People, I just had a look at Vivian Le's SP to "Hero" By the "other" Mariah You know what, she sure is good......I guess I'll have to keep my eye on her. However, she reminds me quite a bit of Angela Wang. Another skater who I just flipped over in a similar fashion to my first reaction to Gracie. I wish her the best as she moves into the crowded senior ranks.

 

[Layback11]

OK People, I just had a look at Vivian Le's SP to "Hero" By the "other" Mariah You know what, she sure is good......I guess I'll have to keep my eye on her. However, she reminds me quite a bit of Angela Wang. Another skater who I just flipped over in a similar fashion to my first reaction to Gracie. I wish her the best as she moves into the crowded senior ranks.

Welcome to the club...you probably know that I uber her, lol. Even though you're technically not supposed to uber juniors.

However, I hope she stays junior (outside of Nationals-seems like senior nats would give her a better chance at being assigned to junior worlds) because she has a good shot at the junior final if she can manage to skate semi-clean.

 

[mrrice]

Welcome to the club...you probably know that I uber her, lol. Even though you're technically not supposed to uber juniors.

However, I hope she stays junior (outside of Nationals-seems like senior nats would give her a better chance at being assigned to junior worlds) because she has a good shot at the junior final if she can manage to skate semi-clean.

I agree about over hyping Juniors but sometimes you just can't help it. I do think she should remain a Junior until she either wins Junior Worlds or turns 18. Whichever comes first. What is the mandatory age for Juniors to move up?

 

[StitchMonkey]

I agree about over hyping Juniors but sometimes you just can't help it. I do think she should remain a Junior until she either wins Junior Worlds or turns 18. Whichever comes first. What is the mandatory age for Juniors to move up?

Welcome to the club...you probably know that I uber her, lol. Even though you're technically not supposed to uber juniors.

However, I hope she stays junior (outside of Nationals-seems like senior nats would give her a better chance at being assigned to junior worlds) because she has a good shot at the junior final if she can manage to skate semi-clean.

I think there is a difference between over hyping and enjoying skaters for who and what they are. We can enjoy the junior skaters and what they are doing/accomplishments today without making predictions about their futures.

 

[Layback11]

I think there is a difference between over hyping and enjoying skaters for who and what they are. We can enjoy the junior skaters and what they are doing/accomplishments today without making predictions about their futures.

What I was describing was more like obsessing over a junior because their skating is amazing and you love them, not declaring someone the next big thing. However, a lot of people say not to get attached to juniors because they are more likely to have something career-ruining happen to them (injuries, growth spurts, and in the case of pairs/dance, splits).

 

[R.D.]

People are overly hyping Vivian Le.... I would refrain from doing that to stop making her into Gracie Gold #2 who can't live up to the pressure....

Yes I know she's talented, but we will have to wait ... I'm far from putting all my eggs on her

Took the words out of my mouth...

OK People, I just had a look at Vivian Le's SP to "Hero" By the "other" Mariah

You mean the REAL Mariah.

 

[mrrice]

Took the words out of my mouth...

It's a catch 22. Too much hype and they could disappoint and not meet expectations. However, not enough hype and they don't get funding to meet some of the basic needs. Not all skaters come from rich families that can afford to support the coaching, travel, and other fees that come with skating. In my case, I have 6 siblings and even though my Parents had some money, they had 6 other children to take care of. Remember that these skaters are responsible for paying the travel expenses of their team and that adds up quickly.

That, coupled with a few bad skates or an injury, can end a skater's career before it ever takes off.

 

[mrrice]

Took the words out of my mouth...



You mean the REAL Mariah.

YES, That's Her!!!!

By the way........Who is Emily Chan and why is she skating to Whitney Houston? Mariah and Whitney during the same season?? Come on people......

 

[Layback11]

YES, That's Her!!!!

By the way........Who is Emily Chan and why is she skating to Whitney Houston? Mariah and Whitney during the same season?? Come on people......

The reigning US Jr. Ladies champion. That was last season, so unless she keeps the program, you don't have to worry about it.

 

[Chemistry66]

I don't know much about the Juniors but I remember when Polina was Junior Champion she didn't even get to go to Junior Worlds, and Vivian Le who was their top lady on the JGP didn't get to continue her momentum at Junior Worlds. They need to consistently get their young girls competing instead of just sending age eligible ladies who competed at Senior Nationals to Junior Worlds. Make it mandatory that they compete at Junior Nationals too in order to get assigned Junior Worlds. In Russia, the Junior ladies do both Senior and Junior Championships, they have to consistently prove that they're the top. In USA there's too much flip flopping around in the lower ranks.

The problem is that US Nationals structure doesn't allow for competing at both Junior and Senior Nationals. In countries like Russia and Japan, they are two separate events at separate dates. With both levels at one event in the US, there really isn't a way for skaters to compete in both.

 

[Krunchii]

The problem is that US Nationals structure doesn't allow for competing at both Junior and Senior Nationals. In countries like Russia and Japan, they are two separate events at separate dates. With both levels at one event in the US, there really isn't a way for skaters to compete in both.

I guess it comes back to money huh... can't hold it separately. It's just disappointing that the US system doesn't guarantee JGP competitors a spot at Junior Worlds. There's not enough continuity IMO for their Juniors to keep up with Japanese ladies and Russian ladies

Edit: Misha Ge is choreographing for Gracie!:eeking:
I wonder what kind of program they're making, have the skating gods finally answered all our thoughts and prayers of Gracie not going to Lori?!

 

[Layback11]

I guess it comes back to money huh... can't hold it separately. It's just disappointing that the US system doesn't guarantee JGP competitors a spot at Junior Worlds. There's not enough continuity IMO for their Juniors to keep up with Japanese ladies and Russian ladies

Edit: Misha Ge is choreographing for Gracie!:eeking:
I wonder what kind of program they're making, have the skating gods finally answered all our thoughts and prayers of Gracie not going to Lori?!

YAAAAASSSSS!

My dream of seeing Gracie skate to the Jaws song with voiceovers and a shark costume might finally be realized!

 

[mrrice]

I guess it comes back to money huh... can't hold it separately. It's just disappointing that the US system doesn't guarantee JGP competitors a spot at Junior Worlds. There's not enough continuity IMO for their Juniors to keep up with Japanese ladies and Russian ladies

Edit: Misha Ge is choreographing for Gracie!:eeking:
I wonder what kind of program they're making, have the skating gods finally answered all our thoughts and prayers of Gracie not going to Lori?!

It takes a lot to shock me HOWEVER, I am completely shocked.:eeking: Two of my children are getting together and I hope they can bring some magic into Gracie's skating. I fell in Love with Misha's skating 2 seasons ago and was expecting to enjoy a long season of his performances this year......Then, Visa issue's derailed his season. I've followed Misha quite a bit and he's always up beat no matter what. I hope he can bring some joy into Gracie's skating that seems to be missing lately.

Now, if Joshua comes back healthy, my skating life will be back to normal......

 

[Jammers]

Didn't Misha also choreograph one of Ann Pogorilaya's programs too? Maybe changing it up and getting a new program from someone closer to Gracie's age might help her open up on the ice.

 

[mrrice]

Didn't Misha also choreograph one of Ann Pogorilaya's programs too? Maybe changing it up and getting a new program from someone closer to Gracie's age might help her open up on the ice.

Agree with this comment 100%. Especially about finding someone closer to Gracie's age and here's why. As great as Frank can be and as beautiful as Lori's choreography can be. I bet they can be quite intimidating to any skater. When I was Gracie's age, I certainly had opinions of my own and would often get in trouble for expressing them. Especially when I had my one and only "Diva" moment and quit Evelyn Champagne King's video to "Action"

Maybe Gracie wants to go in a completely different direction. Frank and Lori definitely have a "Style" that Gracie may not be totally comfortable in performing. Look, Michelle Kwan moved on from Frank and Lori and in 2003, had one of the best seasons of her career.

 

[Jammers]

I also feel like Gracie hasn't had a lot of life experiences which could make her much more open on the ice. Maybe she needs to fall in love and have a heartbreak and bring out something in her that's authentic and not just rehearsed.