State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

[Mrs. P]

does golden spin take place at the same time as the grand prix final? just want to know if a US lady at the final is 100% ruled out now or not

Yes it is the same weekend.

 

[skylark]

I think last years Nationals could have gone to Polina. She lost that competition with her weak Rudy galindo choreographed Gone with the Wind progam....had it been choreographed like Alain Chartrand of Canada, no way Gracie would have beat Polina that day, just my opinion.

and I actually would not be surprised if both of them didn't make the podium at nationals....I think whoever can deliver solid heartfelt performances to a roaring audience applause that day at Nationals will have the momentum going into olympic season. My bet is on mariah, polina, and another new face girl.

I hope you don't win your bet, no offense. Ashley, as reigning World Silver medalist, and Gracie, as Stellar Jumping technician, have a lot of credibility and cachet with International judges that no other US ladies have. And we need to send our skaters who have that credibility and reputation. Figure skaters benefit from their reputations, whether that's because of stellar qualities in the PC categories, consistency, fully rotated jumps, etc.

Having said that, everyone needs to bring their A game to nationals. Mariah, Mirai, and Karen all want to push forward as well.

Polina at this point is an almost unknown quantity, except for her great cred for consistency and overall good qualities. I've actually been wondering if she's doing, this year, what many GS posters said they wanted her to do: figure out whether she's skating for herself or for her mother. I'm not discounting her injury, not at all. But she could be, in her own mind, using the enforced reduced training from her injury to re-evaluate what she wants, as well as enjoying her first year of college.

 

[skylark]

does golden spin take place at the same time as the grand prix final? just want to know if a US lady at the final is 100% ruled out now or not

My understanding is that if Ashley should qualify for GPF, she'd choose to compete there, and one of the US alternates would take her place at Golden Spin. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Chemistry66]

My understanding is that if Ashley should qualify for GPF, she'd choose to compete there, and one of the US alternates would take her place at Golden Spin. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

No, you're right. Ashley will know by this weekend if she's qualified for the GPF and if so, she'd have enough time to change her travel plans.

 

[topaz emerald]

I hope you don't win your bet, no offense. Ashley, as reigning World Silver medalist, and Gracie, as Stellar Jumping technician, have a lot of credibility and cachet with International judges that no other US ladies have. And we need to send our skaters who have that credibility and reputation. Figure skaters benefit from their reputations, whether that's because of stellar qualities in the PC categories, consistency, fully rotated jumps, etc.

Having said that, everyone needs to bring their A game to nationals. Mariah, Mirai, and Karen all want to push forward as well.

Polina at this point is an almost unknown quantity, except for her great cred for consistency and overall good qualities. I've actually been wondering if she's doing, this year, what many GS posters said they wanted her to do: figure out whether she's skating for herself or for her mother. I'm not discounting her injury, not at all. But she could be, in her own mind, using the enforced reduced training from her injury to re-evaluate what she wants, as well as enjoying her first year of college.

No problem. We all have our opinions, as long as we are respectful. I understand reputation is important in this sport, but I think that's unfortunate. As polina said in her teleconference interview posted above by someone, it should not be political or who has the titles going into competitions, but who skates the best. And I agree with her. For example, in football, if a quarterback doesn't perform well, he will get demoted and replaced by another quarterback. I think the same thing should apply in figure skating. If Ashley and Gracie can't deliver the technical content at Nationals, then other girls should be given a chance, as they all work very hard. I am not much of fan of Polina's skating myself, but what she's saying is reasonable and fair. I don't know what Polina wants, but I wish her the best. However, I'd love to see her make a huge comeback at Nationals, just to stick it in her haters faces. I still would love to see Polina and mariah in the 1, 2, or 2,1 position at Nationals, and I can care less who gets the third spot.

I don't understand the criteria to gain 3 spots at Olympics, or to even make it to Worlds. But I read that if Ashley or Gracie doesn't make the world podium, then Americans lose 3 spots at Olympics? If that is correct, then one of them better make it on the podium, and my bet is on Gracie, only because Ashley just got hammered with 6 under-rotations at CoC, and I have a feeling she will get hammered again.

 

[eta]

I don't understand the criteria to gain 3 spots at Olympics, or to even make it to Worlds. But I read that if Ashley or Gracie doesn't make the world podium, then Americans lose 3 spots at Olympics? If that is correct, then one of them better make it on the podium, and my bet is on Gracie, only because Ashley just got hammered with 6 under-rotations at CoC, and I have a feeling she will get hammered again.

They don't have to podium. The two top ladies' placements just have to add up to 13 or less - say, one ladies places 6 and the other places 7 then that's enough for 3 spots for next season, which includes the Olympics.


And did anyone watch Tallinn trophy? Looking at the SP scores it seems like M. Bell didn't do too well...

 

[topaz emerald]

They don't have to podium. The two top ladies' placements just have to add up to 13 or less - say, one ladies places 6 and the other places 7 then that's enough for 3 spots for next season, which includes the Olympics.


And did anyone watch Tallinn trophy? Looking at the SP scores it seems like M. Bell didn't do too well...

Oh I see. well let's hope whoever gets sent to worlds can meet the criteria. Thanks.

 

[topaz emerald]

They don't have to podium. The two top ladies' placements just have to add up to 13 or less - say, one ladies places 6 and the other places 7 then that's enough for 3 spots for next season, which includes the Olympics.


And did anyone watch Tallinn trophy? Looking at the SP scores it seems like M. Bell didn't do too well...

what is the tallinn trophy anyway? Is that a lower-tiered international competition? And why did the USFS send her there?

 

[Chemistry66]

No problem. We all have our opinions, as long as we are respectful. I understand reputation is important in this sport, but I think that's unfortunate. As polina said in her teleconference interview posted above by someone, it should not be political or who has the titles going into competitions, but who skates the best. And I agree with her. For example, in football, if a quarterback doesn't perform well, he will get demoted and replaced by another quarterback. I think the same thing should apply in figure skating. If Ashley and Gracie can't deliver the technical content at Nationals, then other girls should be given a chance, as they all work very hard. I am not much of fan of Polina's skating myself, but what she's saying is reasonable and fair. I don't know what Polina wants, but I wish her the best. However, I'd love to see her make a huge comeback at Nationals, just to stick it in her haters faces. I still would love to see Polina and mariah in the 1, 2, or 2,1 position at Nationals, and I can care less who gets the third spot.

I don't understand the criteria to gain 3 spots at Olympics, or to even make it to Worlds. But I read that if Ashley or Gracie doesn't make the world podium, then Americans lose 3 spots at Olympics? If that is correct, then one of them better make it on the podium, and my bet is on Gracie, only because Ashley just got hammered with 6 under-rotations at CoC, and I have a feeling she will get hammered again.

The qualification system for multiple spots at Worlds has been the same for ages. This year, Worlds 2017 will affect both Worlds 2018 and the Olympics spots.

For 3 places at 2018 Worlds/Olympics
- If 3 entries/discipline, top 2 placements must total 13 or less. (Only top 2 count)
- If 2 entries/discipline, must total 13 or less.
- If 1 entry/discipline, must place 1st or 2nd.

For 2 places at 2018 Worlds/Olympics
- If 3 entries/discipline, top 2 placements must total 28 or less. (Note: Competitors qualifying for the FS/FD but placing lower than 16th still awards 16 placement points)
- If 2 entries/discipline, must total 28 or less.
- If 1 entry/discipline, must place 3rd to 10th.

Ashley and Gracie do not need to make the podium for 3 spots at the Olympics. If they're the highest 2 placing American ladies at Worlds (and thus count towards 2018 spots), they could place 4th + 9th, 5th + 8th, or 6th + 7th and still get the US 3 spots for the Olympics.

ETA: Here's the Olympics Qualifications document from the ISU - http://static.isu.org/media/309682/isu-figure-skating-en.pdf

 

[eta]

what is the tallinn trophy anyway? Is that a lower-tiered international competition? And why did the USFS send her there?

Senior B, because she only has one GP event and USFS wants more international competition experience for her maybe?

 

[Chemistry66]

And did anyone watch Tallinn trophy? Looking at the SP scores it seems like M. Bell didn't do too well...

Apparently she had a fall and a stepout, so she scored pretty decently considering that, and that her PB is only 5 points higher than her Tallinn score.

I'm looking at the bright side that she's still only 4 points out of medal contention right now. Though the FS is going to be veeeeeeeeery interesting because there is a whole lot of bunched up scores in the 50-60 point range.

 

[eta]

Apparently she had a fall and a stepout, so she scored pretty decently considering that, and that her PB is only 5 points higher than her Tallinn score.

I'm looking at the bright side that she's still only 4 points out of medal contention right now.

Well I guess I expected her PB to be higher, with the silver at SA and seemingly a lot of people are considering her to be the #3 - if not #2 - US lady. Hope she has a better time during the FS.

 

[skylark]

If Ashley and Gracie can't deliver the technical content at Nationals, then other girls should be given a chance, as they all work very hard.

All the girls are given a chance, to show all the qualities and components of their skating. It isn't just about delivering the technical content. But the technical content has to be there, and both Ashley and Gracie work very hard to be sure it's there. If either of them gave up after one or two setbacks in competition, they'd have been gone long ago.

 

[skylark]

Oh I see. well let's hope whoever gets sent to worlds can meet the criteria. Thanks.

You're welcome. Ashley and Gracie, together, have met the criteria for four years running now, with room to spare.

2013 - Ashley was 5th, Gracie was 6th. Total: 11

2014 - Gracie was 5th, Ashley was 7th. Total: 12

2015 - Gracie was 4th, Ashley was 5th. Total: 9

2016 - Ashley was 2nd, Gracie was 4th. Total: 6

 

[topaz emerald]

Apparently she had a fall and a stepout, so she scored pretty decently considering that, and that her PB is only 5 points higher than her Tallinn score.

I'm looking at the bright side that she's still only 4 points out of medal contention right now. Though the FS is going to be veeeeeeeeery interesting because there is a whole lot of bunched up scores in the 50-60 point range.

awe that sucks, yeah, let's hope she can bounce back in the free. She needs consistency. Seems all the US ladies struggle so much with consistency and setbacks.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

awe that sucks, yeah, let's hope she can bounce back in the free. She needs consistency. Seems all the US ladies struggle so much with consistency and setbacks.

There have been so many women the last few years who have showed flashes of brilliance in various events during the season: Agnes, Angela, Courtney, and Mariah (among others). Only Ashley, Gracie, and Polina have been able to produce their best form at Nationals. I'll be very worried about our Olympic spots if only Ashley makes the World team.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Mariah in in the final group and like Chemistry66 said she is only a few points from medal contention. She also had the second highest PCS at 27.82 her best, at SA was 29.91 so not far off with a flawed skate.

This is only the short. What matters is the final score/placement. While coming from behind is not ideal, she is withing contention and I look forward to seeing how she does tomorrow.

 

[klutzy]

Worrisome that Polina has dropped out of her third tournament. Pretty much means nothing before Nationals. You do have to wonder if her motivation is still there. She has to improve, not just skate clean, to really be in the international medal hunt. Maybe she's just not quite committed enough to go that extra mile--at least at this point.

Too bad she's won't be at Golden Spin--Gracie does some of her best skating around Polina.

 

[topaz emerald]

Worrisome that Polina has dropped out of her third tournament. Pretty much means nothing before Nationals. You do have to wonder if her motivation is still there. She has to improve, not just skate clean, to really be in the international medal hunt. Maybe she's just not quite committed enough to go that extra mile--at least at this point.

Too bad she's won't be at Golden Spin--Gracie does some of her best skating around Polina.

lol, yup, I noticed that too. I don't think she Polina makes her nervous, lol.

 

[chuckm]

Bradie TENNELL won silver and Mariah BELL won bronze at TALLINN today. Serafima SAKHANOVICH (RUS) won gold. Stanislava KONSTANTINOVA (RUS), who led after the SP, withdrew.

Andrew TORGASHEV was 4th in both SP and FS at TALLINN, but took the bronze medal overall.

And Elliana POGREBINSKY / Alex BENOIT won bronze in ICE DANCE at TALLINN earlier this week.