State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

[shiroKJ]

Seriously? I did not know that you can earn World spot, but not 4CC at the same time... But if that how it is, then it makes sense. Last year the initial 4CC team was excatly same as world team, and only changed because skaters themselves resigned from competing (or in case of Nathan, got himself injured...), so I naively thought that as long as number of spots is the same, the teams are named the same (based on top3 or top2 at US Nationals) and it's up to a skater if he want/can skate.

I believe only the winner is assured both. Last year it was Polina,Gracie, and Ashley for world team / Polina, Gracie, and Mirai for 4CC. It's a chances to reward and also give additional championship experience to those who did well but just missed the podium.

 

[cathlen]

I believe only the winner is assured both. Last year it was Polina,Gracie, and Ashley for world team / Polina, Gracie, and Mirai for 4CC. It's a chances to reward and also give additional championship experience to those who did well but just missed the podium.

Yes, Mirai got 4CC spot, but only because Ashley said straight away that she's skipping 4CC to prepare for Worlds in Boston. She would have gone, if she wanted. I actually always heard that US select their teams based on Nationals, and that's why there was such a fuss about Ashley being sent to Olympics instead of Mirai. Because it did not happen before, to sent 4th place instead of 3rd place. I know other Federations does things differently, but not US (it applies to all disciplines, not just figure skating, but FS is following the rule generally). If it was Russian Federation, it's clear from the beginning that third place is not guaranteed spot, it's up to Fed, to decide (that's why there was no fuss about Stolbova/Klimov being sent to Worlds, only top 2 teams were selected based on Nationals, third team was sent based on international result, and S/K has won GPF then, so missing Nationals & Euros due to Fedor's injury did not disqualify them from World team), but skaters know that from the beginning. And I know that is not the case with USFSA. But maybe they have different rules for selecting 4CC team? I need to find the rules of selecting...

 

[skylark]

I believe only the winner is assured both. Last year it was Polina,Gracie, and Ashley for world team / Polina, Gracie, and Mirai for 4CC. It's a chances to reward and also give additional championship experience to those who did well but just missed the podium.

No, that isn't correct. That doesn't seem to be how USFS works, although other federations operate under their own rules. Usually US names the same 3 to Worlds and 4CC. Last year, it would have been Gracie, Polina and Ashley. Ashley chose not to go, and Polina dropped out b/c of injury, making room for substitutes #1 and #2. Nagasu and Chen. Ashley declined the assignment before, or a day or two after the original list was announced, so it did look like it was originally Gracie, Polina and Mirai.

But .... in 2011, the three National medalists, Ryan Bradley, Richard Dornbush, and Ross Miner, were assigned to Worlds. However, those appointed to 4CC were numbers 4, 5 and 6: Jeremy Abbott, Adam Rippon, and Armin Mahbanoozedeh.

That was the only year it happened that way, I think. Usually, it's the same 3 picked for worlds and 4cc. But that may suggest that USFS decides every year how.

p.s. it didn't work out that well for Ryan, Richard and Ross. I thought at the time that, given that Richard and Ross were brand new to seniors, they would have benefitted greatly from being at a senior international competition, i.e. 4cc.

 

[shiroKJ]

No, that isn't correct. That doesn't seem to be how USFS works, although other federations operate under their own rules. Usually US names the same 3 to Worlds and 4CC. Last year, it would have been Gracie, Polina and Ashley. Ashley chose not to go, and Polina dropped out b/c of injury, making room for substitutes #1 and #2. Nagasu and Chen. Ashley declined the assignment before, or a day or two after the original list was announced, so it did look like it was originally Gracie, Polina and Mirai.

But .... in 2011, the three National medalists, Ryan Bradley, Richard Dornbush, and Ross Miner, were assigned to Worlds. However, those appointed to 4CC were numbers 4, 5 and 6: Jeremy Abbott, Adam Rippon, and Armin Mahbanoozedeh.

That was the only year it happened that way, I think. Usually, it's the same 3 picked for worlds and 4cc. But that may suggest that USFS decides every year how.

p.s. it didn't work out that well for Ryan, Richard and Ross. I thought at the time that, given that Richard and Ross were brand new to seniors, they would have benefitted greatly from being at a senior international competition, i.e. 4cc.

So it seems there's no solid guidelines and is based on the USFS's discretion. Either way they're not going to let Gracie and Ashley skip the chance to try out the Olympic venue. Not when they're the US's best hope for an Olympic medal.

 

[skylark]

Yes, Mirai got 4CC spot, but only because Ashley said straight away that she's skipping 4CC to prepare for Worlds in Boston. She would have gone, if she wanted. I actually always heard that US select their teams based on Nationals, and that's why there was such a fuss about Ashley being sent to Olympics instead of Mirai. Because it did not happen before, to sent 4th place instead of 3rd place.

Many people thought that it was always top 3 get first choice, but that wasn't the case. Actually, USFS rules state that selection is made by nationals results AND how well the skater has performed internationally in the previous 12-15 months. Ashley had won gold at Bompard, silver at SA, and bronze at GPF in fall 2013, as well as come 5th at Worlds 2013. Mirai had finished 3rd at Rostelecom and 8th at NHK that fall (2013). Also, she had not earned a trip to Worlds since 2010.

But you're right that Ashley said straightaway that she would skip 4CC to prepare for Worlds. She said it within a day or two, which is very considerate,in my opinion, (if one can), to the substitute.

 

[skylark]

So it seems there's no solid guidelines and is based on the USFS's discretion. Either way they're not going to let Gracie and Ashley skip the chance to try out the Olympic venue. Not when they're the US's best hope for an Olympic medal.

I guess there are guidelines, but the committee is able to decide otherwise. It was a miserable decision for the men in 2011, I know that much. And I think they haven't varied a bit from the usual 1-2-3 decision since that ill-fated decision.

I was surprised to see the Art on Ice instagram say that. But I agree that it sounds like they're telling Ashley and probably Gracie in advance to plan for 4CC.

I agree with you that they oughtn't skip the chance to try out the Olympic venue!

 

[skylark]

I agree. I also think she's wise to play against her strength this year, so she can come roaring back in 2018 with the sort of piece she excels at.

Roaring Back! :luv17: I love that.

 

[amc987]

@ShiroKJ Ashley declined 4CC which is why Mirai got the spot. I believe that USFS usually offers the top 3 (or however many qualifying spots we have that year) eligible skaters 4CC and Worlds. In Olympic years, it's different because it isn't advisable to do both 4CC and the Olympics so close together. Still, IIRC, USFS usually offers the qualifying skaters spots at the Olympics and Worlds.

There have been a few exceptions to this in the last few years due to injury or USFS's preference for a skater (e.g. Jason Brown got the Sochi spot but Max Aaron got the Worlds spot in 2014).

 

[cathlen]

Many people thought that it was always top 3 get first choice, but that wasn't the case. Actually, USFS rules state that selection is made by nationals results AND how well the skater has performed internationally in the previous 12-15 months. Ashley had won gold at Bompard, silver at SA, and bronze at GPF in fall 2013, as well as come 5th at Worlds 2013. Mirai had finished 3rd at Rostelecom and 8th at NHK that fall (2013). Also, she had not earned a trip to Worlds since 2010.

But you're right that Ashley said straightaway that she would skip 4CC to prepare for Worlds. She said it within a day or two, which is very considerate,in my opinion, (if one can), to the substitute.

Thanks! Do you, by any chance, have a link to these rules? I tried to find them, but I failed.

 

[mrrice]

I think the team will be the same as last year: Wagner, Gold, Nagasu. I don't trust Mariah Bell, unfortunately.

Here's the thing. I DO trust Mariah Bell because I trust Raf. She has been given a spectacular program by Rohene and all she has to do is lay it down the way she does every day in practice. After last years Nationals, I think Mariah has some demons she'd like to exercise and with the absence of Polina, the time is now to get herself on the Podium.

 

[ice coverage]

Seriously? I did not know that you can earn World spot, but not 4CC at the same time...

The USFS assignments for Worlds and Four Continents do not have to be identical.

For example, per the announcement at 2015 Nats :

Hubbell/Donohue were assigned to 2015 Worlds, but Hawayek/Baker were assigned outright to 2015 Four Continents.

Chock/Bates and the Shibs were assigned to both.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/Story?id=61932&type=news (Jan 25)​

Esp. unexpected because Hubbell/Donohue were the reigning Four Continents champions. Were not given the opportunity to defend their title from 2014.

 

[snowflake]

I believe the popularity of figure skating in US depends mostly on their women. So a question: has Ashley’s world’s silver medal brought more media and public interest to the sport in US? Or does she not have the ’right’ style?

Anyway Ashley rocks and I hope she wins her 4th title!

 

[skylark]

Thanks! Do you, by any chance, have a link to these rules? I tried to find them, but I failed.

Oh dear, I'm afraid I'm rather hopeless for that. But other members (ice coverage, perhaps?) have provided the right link and quoted the rules, so maybe some kind soul will step up.

 

[lyndichee]

I believe the popularity of figure skating in US depends mostly on their women. So a question: has Ashley’s world’s silver medal brought more media and public interest to the sport in US? Or does she not have the ’right’ style?

Anyway Ashley rocks and I hope she wins her 4th title!

Ashley certainly has a lot more followers on instagram recently but I don't think it made much of a difference as Worlds is not as popular as the Olympics. Once the Olympics comes a long we will see if more fans are engaged. When it was 2014, Gracie was very popular and even Taylor Swift was paying attention to Gracie. Ashley was not that popular as many people felt like Mirai deserved her spot instead.

 

[mrrice]

I believe the popularity of figure skating in US depends mostly on their women. So a question: has Ashley’s world’s silver medal brought more media and public interest to the sport in US? Or does she not have the ’right’ style?

Anyway Ashley rocks and I hope she wins her 4th title!

This is an interesting question. I think it depends on the region. In my area, Central, Ca. Adam Rippon and Ashley Wagner are by the far the most popular skaters and most people, even non-skating fans, know who they are. Believe it or not, it's Gracie that most people don't know. Polina is probably the second skater that people in my area root for. Some of it has to do with Rudy's popularity but, especially with teenaged girls, I think Polina might be second to Ashley as she has had several stories and featurettes, on the local news. Even Nam was on our local news when he moved to San Jose. The story headline was "A Canadian has flown south for the winter as Canada's Nam Nguyen will be training here in San Jose."

 

[narcissa]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BO9xPxyjiwG/?hl=en
Nationals has not started yet, but USFSA seem pretty confident Ashley will qualify for 4CC. I wonder what will be if Ashley will skate like at Cup of China... I don't wish her that, but it's possibility and she's not form small Federation to have a spot no matter what. (or does she? )

They'll just ignore her underrotations at nationals if she skates like CoC.

 

[skylark]

I believe the popularity of figure skating in US depends mostly on their women. So a question: has Ashley’s world’s silver medal brought more media and public interest to the sport in US? Or does she not have the ’right’ style?

Anyway Ashley rocks and I hope she wins her 4th title!

Great minds think alike! I can hardly wait another two weeks.

TSL's Jenny and Dave asked Phil Hersh this question right after Worlds. He said that because figure skating is an every-four-years sport in the USA, he didn't think her silver medal would, in itself, be enough for sustained attention. Christine Brennan was happy that her article about Ashley's silver made the print edition of USA Today, not just the online; she said it would reach another several million people that way.

I'm thinking that if Ashley repeats as a world medalist, and/or Gracie (and/or ?) wins a world medal in 2017, that would create some great momentum for the Olympics, in terms of audience. Combined with Ashley's 2016 silver, it would show an upward trend as far as our women go, and US figure skating. Fingers crossed!

 

[ice coverage]

... Do you, by any chance, have a link to these rules? I tried to find them, but I failed.

... But other members (ice coverage, perhaps?) have provided the right link and quoted the rules, so maybe some kind soul will step up.

The USFS selection criteria for Worlds have been posted and re-posted (by several of us) countless times on GS in recent years.

I'm not going to hunt down one of the old posts that quoted directly from USFS. My thanks to any kind soul who steps up to do so.

This 2016 thread has the criteria as presented/discussed in articles by Amy Rosewater and Phil Hersh.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?58087-USFS-World-Team-Selection-Procedures​

Re Four Continents:

To be honest, I cannot remember whether I ever have seen a list spelling out USFS selection criteria for Four Continents.
Not saying that USFS does not have a list of Four Continents selection criteria.
Just saying that at least in my experience, the Four Continents selection criteria have been far more obscure. As to what exactly they are and how they differ from the Worlds selection criteria, I either have forgotten or never knew.​

---

ETA:

Will take this opportunity to give an early reminder that in 2014, the USFS selection criteria for the Olympics were not identical to those for Worlds.

No one should be surprised if they once again are not identical in 2018.​

 

[R.D.]

Great minds think alike! I can hardly wait another two weeks.

TSL's Jenny and Dave asked Phil Hersh this question right after Worlds. He said that because figure skating is an every-four-years sport in the USA, he didn't think her silver medal would, in itself, be enough for sustained attention. Christine Brennan was happy that her article about Ashley's silver made the print edition of USA Today, not just the online; she said it would reach another several million people that way.

I'm thinking that if Ashley repeats as a world medalist, and/or Gracie (and/or ?) wins a world medal in 2017, that would create some great momentum for the Olympics, in terms of audience. Combined with Ashley's 2016 silver, it would show an upward trend as far as our women go, and US figure skating. Fingers crossed!

These days, skating really flies under the radar in non-Olympic years. Even if Gold had won Worlds (arguably best possible outcome for US skating that year), folks at large would quickly move on. At least immediately after Worlds, I felt more people were talking about Gold's falter in the FS than Wagner's silver.

As it stands now, it almost seems like a pipe dream that either of them could possibly get on this year's podium. Just have to hope that Gold finds a solution to her slide super-quick. IMO, Wagner is all but shut out of contention at this point.

And as for nationals (honestly, I forgot about it), I think the safe pick is Wagner, Nagasu, Gold. There is no reason for me to think that anyone else will step it up. Hicks, Bell, Wang et al. have all been hyped - but have underwhelmed in the past. The only scenario I see is if Gold is STILL struggling, and ends up 8th-10th at Nationals, then one of the other girls (best of the rest) will go in her place.

I'm assuming Edmunds will WD, that's why I have not mentioned her.

 

[andromache]

Will Amber Glenn be at Nationals? I kind of assumed she would be because of her great showing at Golden Spin, and I think she could contend for a medal at Nationals, and has a higher scoring potential than Mirai.