State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17 | Page 110 | Golden Skate

State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

I think it was very unrealistic for Gracie and for any person on her team to think that she was going to have an excellent competition this weekend. She just got to the point where she was starting to get her jumps back. What happened was the best case scenario, where she scored in the top six. This was a vast improvement over golden spin, where she couldn't land anything. If anything they should've just said they wanted to end the season stronger than where she started, rather than have a lofty goal that was unrealistic at the time. She wasn't trained enough for that. The programs had changed too many times. She hadn't conditioned her body yet. It was just too much too soon.

So I'm angry at everyone in her team for thinking that she could get on the podium when she just needed to skate better. Because now she feels like a failure again even though this is actually a success.

This entire situation is just a mess.
 
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To think that Gracie did not have a chance this past weekend was somewhat foolish (as foolish as thinking a couple of months ago that Karen needed to change coaches). Gracie had a bad year, that happens to all athletes, ups and downs always exist. She's had an extended down period, but champions tend to respond when it counts the most amd that generally is what defines that athlete. To have Gracie skate strongly in her short may have changed everything - but that did not happen.. I don't think anybody thought she would have an excellent competition, but most, including myself, believed that she still had a chance to make the podium. It is now time for Gracie to move on, put this behind her and get her confidence back.
 
I disagree. Karen wasn't the only one who delivered on the day. Ashley delivered, so did Mariah. So did Caroline Zhang. You can tell from my posts that for me, skating a brilliant program isn't just about scores or winning.

I totally agree with you that "knowing her, this will light a bigger furnace and she will rock at worlds." Go Ashley!:cheer2::hap10::dance3:

I should clarify I mean to say the overall event on the day for BOTH short and long ... and I am only referring to the those mentioned in my post, Mirai, Karen and Ashley. Ashley was able to put up a great FS and shows herself to be the great fighter/pro we know she is, but the 'wind' was not beneath her wings this time let's just say and she maxed out her TES along all these little chronic issues that did affect the score. If skated cleaner, it would have made a difference. Had she and Mirai switched their skating order, it may have made a few points differences? Only speculations of course.

I felt the US was finally offering Mirai an olive branch this time round, pity she couldn't take full advantage of it. I am pleased Mirai get to do the 4CC again (thanks Ashley), she has a 4cc bronze and silver already, wouldn't be amazing if she can somehow manage the whole set? Wheee...

Although I would also love Karen to prove herself for to gain the much needed international reputation. Her previous PCS was really undermarked as she was seen like US #6, 7, now it is all different. It is a tough place at the top as Gracie has shown, subject to all sort of pressures she hasn't experienced before. She'd also need to build the momentum convincingly and immediately like Nathan has done this season playing catch up... to stamp - seal - deliver to be a true contender if she is serious about the Olympics.

On a like to like basis if you really think about it
  • Jumps
  • Spiral
  • Spins
  • Quality
  • Maturity (for her age group)
  • Artistry
She is no slouch compare to the current leaders of the sport.

She just needs consistency, reputation and federation support. Also guidance on devising COP smart programs, choreography and given the opportunity to learn, to develop, improve and experiment, although I like her SP A LOT this year, there are always things can be improved, get a specialist 2nd/3rd opinion, even those at the very top (regardless of the scoring) need and should do this. There will be some mistakes and hiccups along the way, it is just normal part of the journey, people just need to be realistic about the whole thing. Time is on her side for now being 17. She appears to have good basics and a genuine interest in pursuing the arts (as seen in her art works on her website since a young age) also in her gala programs since Novice days which says so much about her. Like Nathan, she is still very much a work in progress. Raw, a little rough, hungry but could be absolute diamond given the right support with care leading to the Olympics, bar injuries - their achilles heel.. quite literally.
 
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Karen's 3Lutzes are just too good. The lutz jump is the money jump for her, she should do 3Lutz and 3Lutz-2Toe to maximize the GOE.
I feel with the 3Toe getting UR call, she will get -GOE on an otherwise spectacular lutz.

Do 2A-3T twice like Satoko used to do. With jumps like that, her GOE will be massive compare to the rest of them. Spins are top rate, steps are also good. What's not to love.
 
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Karen's 3Lutzes are just too good. The lutz jump is the money jump for her, she should do 3Lutz and 3Lutz-2Toe to maximize the GOE.
I feel with the 3Toe getting UR call, she will get -GOE on an otherwise spectacular lutz.

Do 2A-3T twice like Satoko used to do. With jumps like that, her GOE will be massive compare to the rest of them. Spins are top rate, steps are also good. What's not to love.

3A? With the size of her 2A and 3Lz would think she's perfectly capable of doing it, plus if Mirai Nagasu and Alaine Chartrand can do it in practice would think she can also, and with a much higher degree of success.
 
I was watching my local nightly news just now when out of nowhere, they had a 2018 Olympics segment. All they did was talk to two skaters, Ashley Wagner and "Maria" Bell (as the reporter called her), for like 2 minutes and then they asked them to spell Pyeongchang. It was so dumb as they didn't even ask them about skating or the games, but it was kinda funny/cute how badly Ashley/Mariah failed lol. Are they in LA?
 
I was watching my local nightly news just now when out of nowhere, they had a 2018 Olympics segment. All they did was talk to two skaters, Ashley Wagner and "Maria" Bell (as the reporter called her), for like 2 minutes and then they asked them to spell Pyeongchang. It was so dumb as they didn't even ask them about skating or the games, but it was kinda funny/cute how badly Ashley/Mariah failed lol. Are they in LA?

Yes, they both train in the area.
 
I read on another forum that she had been talking to others about leaving Frank for a while, but took no steps toward actually doing it.


Reading the article based on her split with Frank it almost sounds like she doesn't have any plans yet and was only going to start thinking about it once the season ended. You almost got the feeling she DIDN'T want to split with Frank and his "firing her" was a shock. That probably is wrong but it was the immediate impression I got.

Going back to her old coach for a period of time to try and "salvage the season" while still staying with Frank (how many top coaches would allow that?) was in my opinion wrong. She should have done what Yulia did. Scrap the season, decide on a new coach, bring them with her to nationals with zero expectations (this is a rebuilding phase and we start now not later!) and then get a head start on the next season. Instead she appeared to be clinging to a lost cause
 
I read on another forum that she had been talking to others about leaving Frank for a while, but took no steps toward actually doing it.

I think she only switched to Frank because of his reputation/influence. If she had stayed with Alex, I don't think she would have placed 4th place overall in Sochi and would have seen lower scores, even though she skated pretty well. You only have to look at what happened to Polina Edmunds. She skated pretty well, yet, ended up 9th overall, lol. Give me a break.
 
I think she only switched to Frank because of his reputation/influence. If she had stayed with Alex, I don't think she would have placed 4th place overall in Sochi and would have seen lower scores, even though she skated pretty well. You only have to look at what happened to Polina Edmunds. She skated pretty well, yet, ended up 9th overall, lol. Give me a break.

Sometimes the scoring of new skaters bothers me. It seems some girls don't get noticed young even though they have the skills to be on top, while others based on coach and country can come out the gate as a senior and get huge scores. The way younger skaters are treated gets a bit too political at times for my taste.

For example this season Karen Chen has had some fantastic international skates and has been given scores that make little sense to me. The juding often get's it right with certain skaters but I feel like some of the 6.0 system mentality hasn't quite been gone away with yet.
 
That's been going on for a while ... In most cases it takes some time for a skater to work up an international rep with the judges. That's why, I think, we see few break-out young skating stars. The U.S. federation is scared to take chances on young skaters, whereas people who have international reps and get the scores receive the benefit of a doubt. This year, though, their hands were forced.


Sometimes the scoring of new skaters bothers me. It seems some girls don't get noticed young even though they have the skills to be on top, while others based on coach and country can come out the gate as a senior and get huge scores. The way younger skaters are treated gets a bit too political at times for my taste.

For example this season Karen Chen has had some fantastic international skates and has been given scores that make little sense to me. The juding often get's it right with certain skaters but I feel like some of the 6.0 system mentality hasn't quite been gone away with yet.
 
That's been going on for a while ... In most cases it takes some time for a skater to work up an international rep with the judges. That's why, I think, we see few break-out young skating stars. The U.S. federation is scared to take chances on young skaters, whereas people who have international reps and get the scores receive the benefit of a doubt. This year, though, their hands were forced.

But why is it that in some countries young skaters come out in their first season and win everything? I know it has been happening for awhile but it's so unbalanced that it's annoying at times. There are girls who come out of juniors and win everything and other girls who have to work really hard to establish a reputation even though their skating, like Karen's, has wonderful qualities that deserve more notice. It's a bit frustrating at times.
 
I know ... I try to keep a perspective and enjoy the skating regardless of the results. Alcohol helps, too. :laugh:

But why is it that in some countries young skaters come out in their first season and win everything? I know it has been happening for awhile but it's so unbalanced that it's annoying at times. There are girls who come out of juniors and win everything and other girls who have to work really hard to establish a reputation even though their skating, like Karen's, has wonderful qualities that deserve more notice. It's a bit frustrating at times.
 
But why is it that in some countries young skaters come out in their first season and win everything? I know it has been happening for awhile but it's so unbalanced that it's annoying at times. There are girls who come out of juniors and win everything and other girls who have to work really hard to establish a reputation even though their skating, like Karen's, has wonderful qualities that deserve more notice. It's a bit frustrating at times.

There is an obvious double standard that nobody wants to address, but it is what it is....
 
well I can't wait to see Gracie's new programs. I wonder what music she has in mind. Also can't wait to see what Ashley, Mariah, and Karen chose.

For the juniors, I saw on Starr Andrews FB page she's skating to One moment in Time by Whitney Houston for her lp...can't wait to see that.
I saw on Kaitlyn Nguyen's FB page that she needs help in searching for new music.
I subscribed to icenetwork recently and also got a chance to watch the ladies' juveniles and novice and I must say I'm so excited to see each of them develop over the years.
 
well I can't wait to see Gracie's new programs. I wonder what music she has in mind. Also can't wait to see what Ashley, Mariah, and Karen chose.

For the juniors, I saw on Starr Andrews FB page she's skating to One moment in Time by Whitney Houston for her lp...can't wait to see that.
I saw on Kaitlyn Nguyen's FB page that she needs help in searching for new music.
I subscribed to icenetwork recently and also got a chance to watch the ladies' juveniles and novice and I must say I'm so excited to see each of them develop over the years.

I met Starr at Nats and she is the sweetest thing. Do you know if she is going to Seniors next year? I thought I had heard that. One Moment in Time should be awesome! :) https://pic.twitter.com/uuFZmARHW2 Love this photo I got of her. She's all braces in it, but she was SO happy!!!
 
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I met Starr at Nats and she is the sweetest thing. Do you know if she is going to Seniors next year? I thought I had heard that. One Moment in Time should be awesome! :) https://pic.twitter.com/uuFZmARHW2 Love this photo I got of her. She's all braces in it, but she was SO happy!!!

She won silver in juniors, so it's the most likely move for her. Age eligible juniors seldom stay after getting a medal. She be senior domestically and a junior internationally. I'm glad she's constructing her programs now so she'll be ready to go in August.
 
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