State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

[shine]

It doesn't matter whether the type of packaging she and Frank Carroll are going for is actually authentic to her personality; it doesn't appear authentic to a lot of people (Johnny Weir included, and he's actually met her). She's got a powerful skating style and tons of speed; soft, lyrical movement don't look good on her. It doesn't look authentic when she smiles her way through a song like "Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again," because it indicates she either doesn't understand the music or just has no personal connection to it.

I haven't seen her Taylor Swift exhibition yet, but if the reaction on these boards are any indication, people respond to her far more positively when she's given something more youthful and fun to work with. I feel the same way -- her competitive programs leave me cold, but I loved her "All That Jazz" EX. She comes alive and looks far more natural and comfortable with a program like that.



Agreed. Now can someone please give her some powerful, driving music to skate to?

I don't think being powerful and fast is mutually exclusive to soft and lyrical. The former is referring to a skater's skating ability, and the latter is a description of a particular style. Kostner is known for her speed and power across the ice, but she's also one of the best at interpreting lyrical music. Patrick Chan is one of the most powerful / fastest skaters in history, but he interprets lyrical/romantic music very decently. Similar can also apply to Takahashi. One should have speed and power in their skating regardless of the style / music they choose.

 

[Sandpiper]

Before Sochi Olympic, I would say Gracie, but for now l will say Polina. Gracie has a chance to wins but, she is not mentally strong to wins the competition. For example, she could wins the 2014 World Champ, Nebelhorn Trophy, and Skate America...Polina is very young and has the potentials. In her first senior international debut she placed 9th at the Olympic and 8th at the World Championship. If Gracie didn't wins the National in this year, she can become a Nagasu. Gracie is a good skater, but she has a lot of nerves. After the Olympic, I personally see Gracie as a star not skater...

You think Gracie could've beaten Mao at 2014 Worlds? :scratch: Gracie had a chance to medal there (after Carolina imploded in the LP), and yes, she blew it. But a chance to outright win? I don't think so.

 

[Selene]

Being in the arena gives you a different perspective. Elene, Liza, and Gracie were far and away better on the second mark (even with strange interpretation across the board from all three for the LP) than everyone else at SkAm. I like Sam a lot and she sold the heck out of Carmen, but she needs A LOT more speed and power if she's going to compete with the big kids. Park had no projection whatsoever in the arena and people seemed restless during her skate.

I did not attend the competition, but my impression from the television feed was that Gracie didn't project either. She skated her program blank faced, with a few pageant smiles thrown in during the spirals. Her interpretation of a solemn song like "Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again" was all wrong. She either doesn't understand her music or has no ability to emote.

ITA...with pretty much all of that. I don't see them changing the program at this point in the season b/c it is a solid program albeit a boring/generic one. What it comes down to is if she skates it well, she'll score well. In the end that's all that matters...however, the general consensus (from people on this forum to FSU to Dave & Jenny on The Skating Lesson to Johnny and Tara) is that the program isn't a good fit for her. Everyone seems to see it and, unless Frank is getting senile, he sees it too.

Didn't Frank and Lori select the music for Gracie? IMO, the musical selection illustrates that they do not understand the strengths and weaknesses of their skater. Frank seems so focused on turning Gracie into a pretty little princess with these boring, outdated programs that I'm not sure he realizes that his skater has no emotional connection to her music.

 

[Alba]

You think Gracie could've beaten Mao at 2014 Worlds? :scratch: Gracie had a chance to medal there (after Carolina imploded in the LP), and yes, she blew it. But a chance to outright win? I don't think so.

Indeed. No way, Gracie had a chance to win Worlds. She had the chance to get bronze, but neither win or silver IMO.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

You think Gracie could've beaten Mao at 2014 Worlds? :scratch: Gracie had a chance to medal there (after Carolina imploded in the LP), and yes, she blew it. But a chance to outright win? I don't think so.

There's only one other person who said Gracie would win Worlds. And I'd be curious to see if they still maintained their steadfast opinion of Gold being the best thing ever. I said at the end of last season that it was uncertain if Gold is for sure the #1 US woman and Skate America has supported that. It's not like Gold gave convincing performances at Worlds and it should come as no surprise if Polina surpasses her and ends up being the sole American woman in a GPF filled with Russians. But there's still hope for Gracie if she gets it together for her next event but Skate America was her shot to solidify a GPF spot and she was easily outskated. In fact, I thought Cesario should have beat her.

 

[chuckm]

I just wish Gracie had Sam Cesario's confidence. If she did, Gracie would be a worldbeater.

 

[kwanatic]

I beg to differ, I guess...Falling twice when spots are on the line isn't really "accepting the pressure and thriving under it"...

OTOH, she did step up and provide the U.S. women some stability when it was needed most. Still, I think her consistency is somewhat overrated at times...

I was speaking more in terms of her GP performances. She was stellar on the GP in 2012-2013 and she did very well on the GP last year too (gold, silver and bronze at GPF). We all know she has her issues when it comes to nationals but the way she was able to get her scores up during the course of the season was by performing so well on the GP. B/c of that she was able to get a pass, so to speak, on her shortcomings at nationals.

With all of the power in ladies skating being outside of the US, winning nationals isn't that big of a deal anymore. Winning international events is what matters...

 

[StitchMonkey]

You I have been thinking about the whole "Frank is picking wrong for Gracie" and maybe we are not fair in placing the blame on him. Maybe he feels this is his style of skating and he wants to teach that style. Maybe he feels that if you come to him, you should expect to learn to skate in his style. Maybe he does not want to branch out or even feel he is the best person to branch out. He may feel he is this type of coach. And how much should he be expected to change? There is a part of me that think Frank should be allowed to be Frank and teach the Frank method. Maybe it is wrong for Gracie to expect something different from him. If for whatever reason her team thinks that this is what she should learn, should Frank turn her away? If someone wants to be a Frank style skater, how much should he really so no that is wrong for them? If he thinks it is the best style (he is free to think that) why should he turn someone away that is willing and eager? How much should a coach push a skater to do something that fits them better but the coach views as an inferior style?

Frank does things the Frank way. Maybe Gracie and co need to recognize he is not the best fit for her style. I am starting to wonder if he is doing what they paid him to do, turn her into the Disney princess style. Frank is kinda old enough and with enough of a resume that he can do what he wants and if he only wants to do this style of coaching, that should be his business. An argument can be made he should branch out, but that does not mean he has to. He is free to keep teaching his style, and promoting his style. Maybe you should not Frank to change his spots for you. A part of me is starting to feel like Gracie knew what she was getting into. Frank is doing the Frank thing and Gracie needs to be the one to see it is not the right fit for her.

Why Gracie seems to want to be a Frank. . . I just don't really knows.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

^

why gracie seems to want to be a frank. . . I just don't really knows.

pcs??

 

[fallingsk8er]

I like this years' more mature Gracie. I think she is perfectly packaged and her programs will be stunning if she skates them without mistakes. In order to improve, she has get out of her comfort zone and challenge herself and that is what she's doing. The ending of her long will be amazing once she masters it. By the end of the season, she will be ready to compete with the best in the world. I fully expect her to get the US a world medal this year.

 

[StitchMonkey]

^

pcs??

That could be but I think a good performance would help with that more in the long run.

Gracie is kinda in a bad situation. There is this perception that the best American lady is automatically one of the best in the world and a contender for the big gold of the year (as an example I mentioned to my better half how Jason Brown cracked the top ten rankings after Sake America making him the highest rank American man, his response was a confused "our best is number ten and that is the only one on the list?"). That is simply not the case and really not fair. No, being #1 in the USA does not automatically mean you are a gold medal contender. So rather than enjoying Gracie for what she is doing, rather than saying good job on her grand prix medal, everyone is tongue clucking about how she is a long shot for a world's medal. It really sucks for her. She basically is getting blamed for the USA not being good enough. If you are not a medal contender at world's you are quickly seen as not good enough to be #1 in the USA.

It really is not fair that whoever wins US nationals is almost cursed to be seen as a let down if they don't medal at worlds. The USA has talent, but there are so many that are better. Keeping three spots is a fair goal for USA skaters. Ill be proud of any skaters that have a hand in that this year medal or not. It is too bad that so many people will assume that the lack of medal is the American's fault, rather than just meaning others were/are better. Having three ladies in the top ten, even with no medal is still something to be proud of. I don't see them as a let down. I also don't get that excited that they will medal though.

 

[Poodlepal]

Same thing again and again.
Girl comes onto scene, skating to lighter music: jazz, show tunes, familiar classical tunes. She is perky, peppy and spunky.

She skates well. Everyone raves over her, but she's juniorish.

Next year, she comes back skating to somber music. She no longer looks "juniorish" if being deadly serious and depressing is "seniorish." But she seems to skate slower to match the tempo of the funereal music, loses her mojo and eventually, her jumps.

You'd never see a tomboy like Debi or Tonya today, and you'd never have the gold and silver medallist skating to show tunes and Neil Diamond like 20 years ago. It's always Juliet, Salome, a princess, or someone dead or dying or singing about someone dead or dying.

Not everybody is Michelle, who did the gentle/princess/serious thing to perfection. They shouldn't try to force themselves into that mold.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Ashuree Vaganasan.

You'll see, She'll get that World medal first

 

[Amei]

Another quote from Gracie Gold after Skate America:

"I'm much older than they [the Russians] are at 19," she said. "I remember when you're younger, consistency is much easier. When I was 14 or 15, I thought doing all my triples like that was consistent, but it does get harder as you get older. But it just motivates me to be more consistent, and I just need to get into the season and get going again. As previous seasons show, I get more consistent and more confident as the as season continues."

http://wintergames.ap.org/article/radionova-wins-skate-america-womens-competition (Oct 26)​

Obviously I can't dispute the 'confidence' but I don't really agree with her comment that 'as previous seasons show, I get more consistent' - if I remember correctly toward the end of last season she had falls in all of her competitions. That's not really consistent (unless you want to be sarcastic and say 'consistently fall'.

 

[Scovies]

Patrick Chan is one of the most powerful / fastest skaters in history, but he interprets lyrical/romantic music very decently. Similar can also apply to Takahashi. One should have speed and power in their skating regardless of the style / music they choose.

I agree that speed and lyricism aren't mutually exclusive, even though I generally have issues with Chan's presentation. For Gracie, though... it hasn't worked, IMO, for her last two LPs. I feel like she's trying to be Alissa Czisny when I think an approach more like Ashley Wagner's would work far better for her -- Ashley also had a similar issue last year with her Romeo and Juliet LP, but found her spark when she switched back to Samson and Delilah.

Gracie is kinda in a bad situation. There is this perception that the best American lady is automatically one of the best in the world and a contender for the big gold of the year (as an example I mentioned to my better half how Jason Brown cracked the top ten rankings after Sake America making him the highest rank American man, his response was a confused "our best is number ten and that is the only one on the list?"). That is simply not the case and really not fair. No, being #1 in the USA does not automatically mean you are a gold medal contender. So rather than enjoying Gracie for what she is doing, rather than saying good job on her grand prix medal, everyone is tongue clucking about how she is a long shot for a world's medal. It really sucks for her. She basically is getting blamed for the USA not being good enough. If you are not a medal contender at world's you are quickly seen as not good enough to be #1 in the USA. .

My issue is less with Gracie and more with what the team around her have done with her. With her level of talent, she should be a favorite for a world medal. She has great speed, strong spins, huge jumps, and good quality of movement. I don't know what Frank and Co. are thinking, but her jumps are now smaller with harder, stiff-legged landings, her double axel is downright scary, and her programs/packaging are all wrong.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I'm kind of mixed on Gracie's programs. I don't like them. However, they do score well. A good Gracie is going to finish behind a clean Adelina and Julia. No program that Gracie can do will change that because they do so much more as far as transitions, spins, and jump entrances. As long as she is around 3rd in PCS it's about the best as she can hope for out of her programs.

 

[GF2445]

Did anyone see alexa scimeca/gracie gold's tweet to TSL that they were their number one fans. The sarcasm in their smiles is so evident!- especially Gracie's

TSL then tweeted back to the, saying that 'we only discuss those who possess talent'

Such a bitchy world is the skating world is sometimes.

I perosnally have a love hate relationship with the skating lesson and on this occaision i really hope that Gracie and Alexa/Chris figuht on and prove jenny kirk and dave lease wrong. I would love to see them eat their words for once.

 

[Mrs. P]

Did anyone see alexa scimeca/gracie gold's tweet to TSL that they were their number one fans. The sarcasm in their smiles is so evident!- especially Gracie's

TSL then tweeted back to the, saying that 'we only discuss those who possess talent'

Such a b*~chy world is the skating world is sometimes.

I perosnally have a love hate relationship with the skating lesson and on this occaision i really hope that Gracie and Alexa/Chris figuht on and prove jenny kirk and dave lease wrong. I would love to see them eat their words for once.

I would think Dave is the one driving the Twitter feed...at least I hope so. Given the criticism and struggle Jenny had in her own career, I would hope she would stay out of it.

That is, she should feel free to provide constructive feedback, but not throw such pithy insults like the one she mentioned.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Did anyone see alexa scimeca/gracie gold's tweet to TSL that they were their number one fans. The sarcasm in their smiles is so evident!- especially Gracie's

TSL then tweeted back to the, saying that 'we only discuss those who possess talent'

Such a b*~chy world is the skating world is sometimes.

I perosnally have a love hate relationship with the skating lesson and on this occaision i really hope that Gracie and Alexa/Chris figuht on and prove jenny kirk and dave lease wrong. I would love to see them eat their words for once.

I looked it up and I am not sure I took it the same way as you.

Yes they talk smack, but they also said they only talk about those with relevance and talent. So I kinda took it that they were saying that they both did in fact have talent, and were relevant. Sorta a you know you have made it when you are the subject of gossip type thing. I took it to mean that to TSL it is better to have catty comments made than have no comments made.

 

[Icey]

Excuses (possible reasons) for difficulties are a dime a dozen. As to whether they are legitimate is another matter. Yawn. lol