State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

[alia jackson]

I think USFSA should tighten up the scoring so that American skating fans especially the casual ones aren't tuning out because the scores Americans get at nationals are usually never the scores they get international competitions.

^^^
This is exactly my thoughts. I already saw some comments on IFS facebook who said that they deserve the national score or there is no fault with the score.

When these skaters give the same performance at international and get the true score (minus the inflation). The public or those that are not familiar with the rules/judging will say that they are underscored and the top skaters are overscored. I'm wondering whether this is what been happening and one of the contributing factors to the declining popularity of figure skating in US.

 

[noskates]

Whose MEDIOCRE program was rewarded with ridiculously high scores???

 

[MoonlightSkater]

I still believe the US is dire need of a complete skating superstar or two with the ability to hit the technical content and deliver the performance/artistic aspect. I didn't see that from any of the ladies last night. Wagner skated well but I wasn't moved by it. It felt exhibition skate but I'm also a purist for skating without lyrics.

I actually disagree with this. I felt like Ashley and Karen both rocked their programs, that Gracie and Polina showed fight despite their one fall each, and more of the lower ranked skaters went clean than in past years. We had more than a few skaters land all their jumps in both programs this year, which seemed to be the first time in a while. So we had Ashley skating like a star, the other two Olympians still showing promise, and a tiny little thing stealing the show. It almost felt like the old, pre-2006 nationals again. It gives me hope that we are on an upswing again.

American skaters still need to go out and land the jumps against international fields, though. We'll see if they can do it. I do agree that failing to call underrotations and edge problems does not help the skaters. At one point Johnny even commented on how selective the calling had been. I might not judge skating (just gymnastics), but I have eyes and I can see when something is obviously under and yet ignored. It's like the powers that be at USFSA decided that choosing not to call jump problems would fool the international judges into thinking the Americans had largely eliminated their problems. Noone's going to be fooled.

 

[noskates]

Thanks Moonlight Skater. Your post is right on IMO. But American skaters are not the only ones getting away with UR jumps and faulty or selective judging. It's very easy for all of us to sit back and review videos and criticize the people that are sometimes making split second decisions (okay, they do have review capacity but not hours to make their decisions) . I'm beginning to think there is no worse critic than the armchair skating judges that populate this forum. Sometimes it seems like no matter how well an American skater lays down a program it's always subject to negative scrutiny and comments. I don't think we're as bad off as many would like to believe. But - whatever floats your boat. The anonymous internet is certainly a way to take out aggressions. I prefer to sit back and enjoy the skating.

 

[LRK]

Thanks Moonlight Skater. Your post is right on IMO. But American skaters are not the only ones getting away with UR jumps and faulty or selective judging. It's very easy for all of us to sit back and review videos and criticize the people that are sometimes making split second decisions (okay, they do have review capacity but not hours to make their decisions) . I'm beginning to think there is no worse critic than the armchair skating judges that populate this forum. Sometimes it seems like no matter how well an American skater lays down a program it's always subject to negative scrutiny and comments. I don't think we're as bad off as many would like to believe. But - whatever floats your boat. The anonymous internet is certainly a way to take out aggressions. I prefer to sit back and enjoy the skating.

As is everyone's, regardless of nationality.

 

[RABID]

I feel that the scoring at Nationals rewards mediocre programs by labeling them great and that only hurts the skaters in international competitions. There level of disconnect between the performances and the scoring just made me shake my head. I think USFSA should tighten up the scoring so that American skating fans especially the casual ones aren't tuning out because the scores Americans get at nationals are usually never the scores they get international competitions.

I still believe the US is dire need of a complete skating superstar or two with the ability to hit the technical content and deliver the performance/artistic aspect. I didn't see that from any of the ladies last night. Wagner skated well but I wasn't moved by it. It felt exhibition skate but I'm also a purist for skating without lyrics.

Totally disagree with this. I came away from watching the competition with two thoughts; scoring inflation has become an international pandemic and so I wasn't bothered by the numbers as I was at the Olympics; for the first time in years I feel like America is well in hand. I see a pair of future stars and I don't mean Gracie and yet Gracie and Ashley look to be a good one/two tandem pushing each other towards excellence for the next few years. That's what I saw last night.

 

[minze]

I so Agree with you. The ladies competition showed that the future and the present is looking bright for the U.S.

Karen Chen , Tyler and other newbies were good

Ashley's performance was world podium worthy
Gracie's performance was also podium worthy

Polina did also amazing

 

[Tutto]

So thrilled for Ashley! She is a performer and a fighter, well deserved win. I think a credit is also due to Rafael Arutinian for working so hard on fixing her technical issues, and that what gave Ashley the confidence to skate like she did. I am also impressed that it was a second clean LP in a row, after she had a skate of her life at GPF I thought ok thats great but it probably just one-off, but seeing her skate clean sp and lp in Nationals - wow!

 

[Skater Boy]

I think AShley and maybe even Gracie could medal right now and AShley could win world's if the Russian ladies have problems. I also think she is vulnerable (Ashley); I like the fight but as soon as we say they are good fighters it also means they have challenges or problems. At Nats Ashley got the benefit of the doubt but some of those landings were two footed as we know. I think there is hope as she is getting consistent and remember the GPF is a telling sign that she can skate with the big girls and remember not only is she improving technically she is currently the best pc wise. So with the triple lutz triple toe - a medal maybe even gold isn't impossible. ARtistically I guess this is not the US time. NO apparent Sasha or Michelle. Karen Chen was exciting - she has more power than the Russian girls sothat bodes well for the future. Things look fine for the US being competitive and even winning some medals though right now there isn't someone really special standing out - yet.

 

[Poodlepal]

It hasn't been the US's time in a long time. Ten years without someone even getting a bronze. If Ashley skates clean, I think she has a shot. Gracie, I don't think has it in her right now.

 

[noskates]

Don't count out Mariah Bell. She's kind of under the radar this year but she has excellent coaching (Kori Ade) and good jumping ability. She's also a lot more polished than Karen Chen and Courtney Hicks. I think the US has a lot of future in ladies skating.

 

[R.D.]

Funny how just like that, the wind changes...and now Gold is the one being counted out.

I still think she has a better shot than Wagner at Worlds...people forget the SP.

 

[flying camel]

I would like to see the American ladies skate with the intensity they had at US Nationals on the Grand Prix. I think on the GP everyone just looks scared.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Funny how just like that, the wind changes...and now Gold is the one being counted out.

I still think she has a better shot than Wagner at Worlds...people forget the SP.

I admire Gracie for not using the injury as an excuse, but it did look to be holding her back last weekend, even if it was just due to a lack of confidence from having not competed. I'm excited to see what happens at Worlds because I do think now that both women have an outside shot at WINNING. Like you, I think Gracie is a bit more solid and confident on the jumps; the content that "wowed" us when Ashley did it doesn't "wow" us when Gracie does it, because we know how good her jumps are. Everything came together for Ashley this weekend but she was once again in a bit more relaxed position with a substantial lead. I hope she can maintain this form when things are sure to be tight at Worlds.

 

[kwanatic]

Funny how just like that, the wind changes...and now Gold is the one being counted out.

I still think she has a better shot than Wagner at Worlds...people forget the SP.

It'd be very foolish to count Gracie out. I think her chances at making the podium are great...but with the Russians dominating and Ashley rolling the way she is, I do think the podium just got a little smaller.

The Russians will be out for blood (as they always are) and after the way Ashley threw down everything she possibly could at nationals, it's clear she's out for blood too. To me, Gracie just seems to be...there. I don't get that "I am here to win" vibe from her. She says her goal is to make the podium but I don't get the sense she's out for blood like the others. Gracie tends to lack that killer instinct that skaters like Ashley, Elena, Liza T and others possess and that worries me about her chances at the podium. In a field full of killers, Gracie can't afford to back off or go in tentatively. She's going to have to come with it and really fight if she wants to be on that podium.

 

[lyndichee]

It'd be very foolish to count Gracie out. I think her chances at making the podium are great...but with the Russians dominating and Ashley rolling the way she is, I do think the podium just got a little smaller.

The Russians will be out for blood (as they always are) and after the way Ashley threw down everything she possibly could at nationals, it's clear she's out for blood too. To me, Gracie just seems to be...there. I don't get that "I am here to win" vibe from her. She says her goal is to make the podium but I don't get the sense she's out for blood like the others. Gracie tends to lack that killer instinct that skaters like Ashley, Elena, Liza T and others possess and that worries me about her chances at the podium. In a field full of killers, Gracie can't afford to back off or go in tentatively. She's going to have to come with it and really fight if she wants to be on that podium.

I completely with you. Gracie doesn't have that killer instinct, the reason I enjoy watching Ashley so much more is because she has that competitive vibe and she's always looking to attack.

 

[Layfan]

Funny how just like that, the wind changes...and now Gold is the one being counted out.

I still think she has a better shot than Wagner at Worlds...people forget the SP.

yeah, it IS funny. Skaters are never allowed to have even a slightly rough competition before people start counting them out. But I think few people are truly counting the likes of Gracie out. I'm just glad that both of them are going to worlds. They are our two best and both in great shape. My dream is to see how the international judges score Gracie with a truly clean skate.

 

[Mrs. P]

Another funny thing is that at ANY other Nationals besides this one and last year (where she would have lost to ...herself), Gracie would have won the competition with the score she received. It was just that she went after a bombastic Ashley who had a crazy high score

I do feel that Gracie seem a bit lifeless (or maybe tentative) in comparison, but had it been a different competition and/or Ashley did well but not at the same bombastic level, the conversation would have been more of, Gracie did a good job fighting to defend her title.

She deserves a lot of credit for pushing Ashley . I'm sure seeing being beaten by Gracie at three straight competitions (though Ashley beat her in the FS at Worlds) probably was a HUGE wakeup call for her. Because prior to that, she really didn't have much competition. We saw shades of what could be in 2013 with Gracie beating Ashley in the FS, but it wasn't until last year's nationals where I think Gracie showed her as a true threat.

Combine that with all the young skaters doing 3-3s consistently and along with how low her scoring ceiling was with unratified 3-3, that pushed Ashley to not be complacent about the whole thing.

 

[Jammers]

Another funny thing is that at ANY other Nationals besides this one and last year (where she would have lost to ...herself), Gracie would have won the competition with the score she received. It was just that she went after a bombastic Ashley who had a crazy high score

I do feel that Gracie seem a bit lifeless (or maybe tentative) in comparison, but had it been a different competition and/or Ashley did well but not at the same bombastic level, the conversation would have been more of, Gracie did a good job fighting to defend her title.

She deserves a lot of credit for pushing Ashley . I'm sure seeing being beaten by Gracie at three straight competitions (though Ashley beat her in the FS at Worlds) probably was a HUGE wakeup call for her. Because prior to that, she really didn't have much competition. We saw shades of what could be in 2013 with Gracie beating Ashley in the FS, but it wasn't until last year's nationals where I think Gracie showed her as a true threat.

Combine that with all the young skaters doing 3-3s consistently and along with how low her scoring ceiling was with unratified 3-3, that pushed Ashley to not be complacent about the whole thing.

Actually from Nationals 2013 until the end of that season while Ashley won all 3 times they met Wagner was barely hanging on to win. After Nationals Ashley won by only about 3 points at Worlds and at the WTT to end the season despite skating her best LP of the season Gracie still would have beaten Wagner if she hadn't doubled her last triple jump and lost by .57 points. Ashley knew that Gracie while only in her 1st season as a Senior was already knocking on the door. I believe it was Gold pushing her more then the Russians that made her start doing the 3-3's no doubt Ashley knew getting beaten domestically at home was going to make it next to impossible to even think about medaling at Worlds or the Olympics if she was number 2 in the US which is of course what happened anyways.

 

[tulosai]

^^^
This is exactly my thoughts. I already saw some comments on IFS facebook who said that they deserve the national score or there is no fault with the score.

When these skaters give the same performance at international and get the true score (minus the inflation). The public or those that are not familiar with the rules/judging will say that they are underscored and the top skaters are overscored. I'm wondering whether this is what been happening and one of the contributing factors to the declining popularity of figure skating in US.

I dunno though. The same thing happened under 6.0, there just wasn't really social media to comment on it then. I mean, Michelle Kwan was a legend but how many 6.0's did she get at nationals vs internationally over her career? (ETA: I still don't know the answer to this, but some quick research shows she got 12 total in all her trips to the World championships (I think 12 trips), and she got 15 at the 2008 US nationals ALONE). Maybe the 'magnitude' seemed less under 6.0 though... say the US judges gave something a 5.9 that would have gotten 5.7 from most international judges. Maybe that seemed like a 'small' difference to the average viewer even though it could most definitely be a deal breaker.