Tatiana Volosozhar & Maxim Trankov

[LittleLotte29]

I am just shocked, they are both good looking, but there's a very strong competition for pair skaters to get in Russian national team. I think, only V/T, S/K are guaranteed place in the team, so there's only one place has left, so it'll be battle for that place in Russian Nationals. Oleg Vasiliev, Maxim's former coach, are going to train a new couple.

I supposed so, because Vasiliev was Gerboldt/Enbert's coach. Now Enbert skates with Davankova in Nina Mozer's group. Katarina stayed alone (she even skated alone on "White Nights" gala in Saransk) and now surprisingly Joubert decided to skate with her. Quite astonishing But I really, really doubt if they are gonna go at any international competition. Katarina isn't a strong skater and Brian is a great jumper - but man's jumps aren't most important in pair skating. We'll see

 

[isamadelline]

I found an audio of an interview of Tanya and Maxim to a radio, some of you could help me with what they are talking about.
https://vk.com/audios229764415?performer=1&q="Радио NS" (Алматы, 28.05.14)

 

[svetik]

I supposed so, because Vasiliev was Gerboldt/Enbert's coach. Now Enbert skates with Davankova in Nina Mozer's group. Katarina stayed alone (she even skated alone on "White Nights" gala in Saransk) and now surprisingly Joubert decided to skate with her. Quite astonishing But I really, really doubt if they are gonna go at any international competition. Katarina isn't a strong skater and Brian is a great jumper - but man's jumps aren't most important in pair skating. We'll see

I think, you are possibly right about Gerboldt/Joubert not going to international competition, but I think, Vasiliev might plan to create is own group opposite to Nina Mozer one, also it helps to get financial help from Russian Ministry of Sport.

 

[borzaya]

I am still in a stay of shock on news of Brian Joubert going in pair skating!

Everybody are. I think it's the biggest shock of the season (or off-season, to be more accurate).

 

[borzaya]

I supposed so, because Vasiliev was Gerboldt/Enbert's coach. Now Enbert skates with Davankova in Nina Mozer's group. Katarina stayed alone (she even skated alone on "White Nights" gala in Saransk) and now surprisingly Joubert decided to skate with her. Quite astonishing But I really, really doubt if they are gonna go at any international competition. Katarina isn't a strong skater and Brian is a great jumper - but man's jumps aren't most important in pair skating. We'll see

I also have a really strong doubt that they would be able to get to any international competition... I've read somebody's guess, though, that maybe he is planning to be a coach in future of not only single skaters, but of pair skaters as well, and wants to get the experience of pair skating himself...

 

[svetik]

Everybody are. I think it's the biggest shock of the season (or off-season, to be more accurate).

I completely agree. I have noticed, Maxim has changed his profile photo on Instagram again. I am glad, Tanya and Maxim are at home, they can have some rest, until next week, when they go to China.

 

[Nessie]

Thanks, re Sui/Han LittleLotte 29.

I watched this and a few of their other videos on YouTube. Sui/Han are certainly talented! However, sometimes I think on can overload a program so that it becomes a bag of tricks rather than a contemplated, integrated presentation. That's a mistake I think a lot of skaters (or coaches, or choreographers) make. And is a mistake V and T have always avoided. But I will watch for Sui/Han and hope they move toward more expression, more savoring of skating moves rather than trying to fill every second with frantic feats.

 

[LittleLotte29]

I watched this and a few of their other videos on YouTube. Sui/Han are certainly talented! However, sometimes I think on can overload a program so that it becomes a bag of tricks rather than a contemplated, integrated presentation. That's a mistake I think a lot of skaters (or coaches, or choreographers) make. And is a mistake V and T have always avoided. But I will watch for Sui/Han and hope they move toward more expression, more savoring of skating moves rather than trying to fill every second with frantic feats.

That is why I'm so happy that they changed the choreographer They are technically outstanding, probably on the level that Stolbova/Klimov will never be able to reach. Their BV at 2012 4CC was about 64 points (Tania and Max' BV at OWG was about 59 points, with all elements on level 4). Their GOE is still not very high as well as the component score. But I think they are gonna be better and better. Their programs by Zoueva were rather childish if you know what I mean. Good junior level.
V/T programs are - from a choreographic point of view - not the best, but their interpretation is gorgeous and they know how to "sell" them. It is dance, not just tricks with funny positions - ballet instead of circus. "JCHS" program is very lyrical what makes an excellent contrast with rock music. I prefer "Skyfall" to "Opyat Metel" (though I like Pugacheva) but I think it was brilliant idea to dance it at the Olympics - because it was also their gala performance at their first Russian Chamionships (which they surprisingly won).

 

[aetos]

V/T programs are - from a choreographic point of view - not the best

In the programs of what choreographer would you like to see VT? I ask such a question because Max and Tanya are quite often critisised for sticking to Morozov, whose programs are considered to be 'empty' and lacking new ideas...

 

[LittleLotte29]

In the programs of what choreographer would you like to see VT? I ask such a question because Max and Tanya are quite often critisised for sticking to Morozov, whose programs are considered to be 'empty' and lacking new ideas...

They usually are, however I don't hate Morozov's choreography. But I would be very happy if they changed choreographer - his lack of creativity is quite frustrating - he has two skaters who are so talneted and make for them programs which are all the same. His programs are very empty, as you wrote, although Morozov "feels" the music quite well (his greatest advantage.
I'd like Krylova/Camerlengo to choreograph their programs - they are very "dancing" choreographers, paying a lot of attention on a ballet site of program, arms movements and generally - movements of upper part of body. They care of interpreting music and they choreograph the programs in a way that skaters don't just throwing hands everywhere in order to skate faster. Anjelika and Pasquale can wonderfully find a significant feature of skaters and use it in different pieces of music. The whole choreography is used to show the story, not just impressive elements, one after another, everything suits to everything Great positions during lifts and spins, very innovative, suitable gesture. They care a lot also about cleanliness, clarity and fluency and they accents union of skaters, many elements in close holds, they try to illustrate the music by dancing not by making tricks. Moreover, these two are brilliant in hiding skaters' flaws, as they did in Wende/Wende programs - they wonderfully "hid" they incapacity to quicken with the music and show their "theatricalness".

And what about you?

 

[Nessie]

They usually are, however I don't hate Morozov's choreography. But I would be very happy if they changed choreographer - his lack of creativity is quite frustrating - he has two skaters who are so talneted and make for them programs which are all the same. His programs are very empty, as you wrote, although Morozov "feels" the music quite well (his greatest advantage.
I'd like Krylova/Camerlengo to choreograph their programs - they are very "dancing" choreographers, paying a lot of attention on a ballet site of program, arms movements and generally - movements of upper part of body. They care of interpreting music and they choreograph the programs in a way that skaters don't just throwing hands everywhere in order to skate faster. Anjelika and Pasquale can wonderfully find a significant feature of skaters and use it in different pieces of music. The whole choreography is used to show the story, not just impressive elements, one after another, everything suits to everything Great positions during lifts and spins, very innovative, suitable gesture. They care a lot also about cleanliness, clarity and fluency and they accents union of skaters, many elements in close holds, they try to illustrate the music by dancing not by making tricks. Moreover, these two are brilliant in hiding skaters' flaws, as they did in Wende/Wende programs - they wonderfully "hid" they incapacity to quicken with the music and show their "theatricalness".

And what about you?

Oh, my goodness! What a marvelous accounting of what should be accomplished in a skater’s choreography. I’m so glad to see some discussion on the matter of choreography as I sometimes feel I am the only one longing for better choreography in skating. I do think there is a certain repetition in V and T’s choreography, some “set pieces” that always re-occur in the same way. But that is probably necessary to fulfill required elements and of course, a lift has to be approached in a certain way and that approach must be a constant.

I didn’t mention that when I recently watched V&T working on what (I think) is a new short program, they were working with Morozov. The moves were not ground-breaking but I assume I only saw a limited portion of the program. Max took issue with two of the moves and from what I could gather, as Max demonstrated what he disliked about them, he was concerned that he could trip over his own feet if he did the move Morozov’s way. Morozov seemed patient with his dissatisfaction but did not relent. Max eventually accepted the positions. I guess fighting for moves that won’t cause problems is one thing, and fighting for more innovation, imagination and creativity is quite another. Not easy to say to a choreographer, “Can you give me something that separates me from everyone else?”

What I like about our nice “Volosozhar and Trankov Documentary” site here is that people have often researched their opinions and have videos or photos that support what they have learned or what they know. Do you possibly have any videos of skaters which exhibit the choreographic work of Krylengo/Camerlengo? I’ll look for Wende and Wende on You Tube so as to get an idea of the choreographic style.

And thanks for mentioning the “throwing of hands” in skaters’ programs. It’s one of the worst offenses among skaters and in fact drives me nuts! Sometimes I feel like yelling at the television screen, “Stop flapping your arms. Flapping arms is NOT choreography.”

 

[kinoriH]

haha check out Max's comment..

adorable.

http://iconosquare.com/p/476842138852218841_10808668

 

[aetos]

And what about you?

Thank you for your answer! I'd also like V/T to try something new. But I don't know who would be the right choice. Zueva? She could make something lyrical and tender for them (which I strongly desire for the pair with such a strong bond). But, as you mentioned, not all her programs are good enough. Krylova/Camerlengo? Probably yes, but they have quite a lot of their own pairs. Although I want V/T's choreography to be more sophisticated and innovative, I like THEM in all their programs. They are so powerful, deep, expressive, and persuasive. And their chemistry is unmatched.

 

[svetik]

I do not mind V/T working with Morozov, as I love black Swan and Masquerade Waltz. Of course, it would ne interesting to see Tanya and Maxim working with somebody else, but i don't know, if this can happen. I remember Maxim saying in one of the interviews, they would like to work with Andris Liepa, famous ballet star, I hope, they will get a chance to do it. Opyat Metel was not choreographed by Morozov, it was Zhulin.
kinoriH, thank you for the link, it's really nice comment from Maxim. Have you seen his photo for new passport, he looks great!

 

[Nessie]

haha check out Max's comment..

adorable.

http://iconosquare.com/p/476842138852218841_10808668

And that is Valentina Trankova, Maxim's mum, right?

 

[Nessie]

Thank you for your answer! I'd also like V/T to try something new. But I don't know who would be the right choice. Zueva? She could make something lyrical and tender for them (which I strongly desire for the pair with such a strong bond). But, as you mentioned, not all her programs are good enough. Krylova/Camerlengo? Probably yes, but they have quite a lot of their own pairs. Although I want V/T's choreography to be more sophisticated and innovative, I like THEM in all their programs. They are so powerful, deep, expressive, and persuasive. And their chemistry is unmatched.

Right. V &T are so appealing -- even withOUT top-notch choreography. THEY are what we love, no question about it. I like them when all they do is stand and listen to someone asking them a question! New York isn't the same without them.....

 

[svetik]

And that is Valentina Trankova, Maxim's mum, right?

Yes, it's Maxim's mum. It looks like, Maxim cannot sleep judging by posting photo from Sochi on his instagram. I don't think, I'll ever forget Sochi! It was such emotional time, it was not easy for V/T, but they won two gold medals, they were great!

 

[LittleLotte29]

Although I want V/T's choreography to be more sophisticated and innovative, I like THEM in all their programs. They are so powerful, deep, expressive, and persuasive. And their chemistry is unmatched.

I agree with every single word

Thank you for your answer! I'd also like V/T to try something new. But I don't know who would be the right choice. Zueva? She could make something lyrical and tender for them (which I strongly desire for the pair with such a strong bond). But, as you mentioned, not all her programs are good enough. Krylova/Camerlengo? Probably yes, but they have quite a lot of their own pairs.

Oh my, everybody but not Zueva. Her talent for choreographing for skating pairs died together with Sergei Grinkov, I'm afraid These of her programs which are not focused on making tricks, are cliche and boring, nothing creative, too. Sometimes they have nothing to do with the music and usually are unrefined, not elegant. Few examples:

Narumi Takahashi and Ryiuchi Kihara
Yu Xiaoyu and Jin Yang
Sui Wenjing and Han Cong
These ones are not very bad, but Tania and Max just would not gain anything if they switched to Zueva. It's almost the same as with Morozov - cliche programs, quite usual.
This is worse:
Wenjing and Cong again I can't stand, what she's doing with them. As Nessie said, there are many tricks, it's really unrefined, music arrangement is trashy (I know, it's Russian folk, I'm not talking about music on its own), I'm not surpise with quite low program component score.

Camerlengo and Krylova don't have many skating pairs, to be honest, they have whole one pair at the moment (Wende/Wende, because Berton/Hotarek decided to split). Of course, they have many single skaters and ice dancers.

I didn’t mention that when I recently watched V&T working on what (I think) is a new short program, they were working with Morozov. The moves were not ground-breaking but I assume I only saw a limited portion of the program. Max took issue with two of the moves and from what I could gather, as Max demonstrated what he disliked about them, he was concerned that he could trip over his own feet if he did the move Morozov’s way. Morozov seemed patient with his dissatisfaction but did not relent. Max eventually accepted the positions. I guess fighting for moves that won’t cause problems is one thing, and fighting for more innovation, imagination and creativity is quite another. Not easy to say to a choreographer, “Can you give me something that separates me from everyone else?”

Of course, I suppose that fighting beetween choreographer and skater is normal - skaters usually have their own imagination but they don't see theirselves, and vice versa - choreographer want skater to do a thing that they can't do or hate to do and feel bad with it. It's quite difficult to find compromise. Ekaterina Gordeeva wrote in her book that Zueva (to be just, some of her programs chreographed for G/G are magnificent - especially "Rodin") sometimes wanted them to do something which was impossible while Tarasova was just coming to ice rink and knowing everything - what's the plan and how to do it.

What I like about our nice “Volosozhar and Trankov Documentary” site here is that people have often researched their opinions and have videos or photos that support what they have learned or what they know. Do you possibly have any videos of skaters which exhibit the choreographic work of Krylengo/Camerlengo? I’ll look for Wende and Wende on You Tube so as to get an idea of the choreographic style.

Sure, my pleasure
SP of Maylin and Daniel Wende
FS of Maylin and Daniel Wende
SP of Stefania Berton and Ondrej Hotarek
SP 2011-2012 of Stefania Berton and Ondrej Hotarek
FS 2011-2012 of Stefania Berton and Ondrej Hotarek
FS 2012-2013 of Stefania Berton and Ondrej Hotarek - I love the way, that they are using "the soul" of flamenco in that program

 

[Alba]

Mozer's group will be arriving to Piné (Trento-Italy) on 20th of July: Volosozhar&Trankov, Stolbova&Klimov, Zabijako&Larinov, Tarasova&Morozov,
The schedule: Monday-Saturday (included) from 11.30-13.50 and 18.30-20.50

 

[Nessie]

I agree with every single word



Oh my, everybody but not Zueva. Her talent for choreographing for skating pairs died together with Sergei Grinkov, I'm afraid These of her programs which are not focused on making tricks, are cliche and boring, nothing creative, too. Sometimes they have nothing to do with the music and usually are unrefined, not elegant. Few examples:

Narumi Takahashi and Ryiuchi Kihara
Yu Xiaoyu and Jin Yang
Sui Wenjing and Han Cong
These ones are not very bad, but Tania and Max just would not gain anything if they switched to Zueva. It's almost the same as with Morozov - cliche programs, quite usual.
This is worse:
Wenjing and Cong again I can't stand, what she's doing with them. As Nessie said, there are many tricks, it's really unrefined, music arrangement is trashy (I know, it's Russian folk, I'm not talking about music on its own), I'm not surpise with quite low program component score.

Camerlengo and Krylova don't have many skating pairs, to be honest, they have whole one pair at the moment (Wende/Wende, because Berton/Hotarek decided to split). Of course, they have many single skaters and ice dancers.



Of course, I suppose that fighting beetween choreographer and skater is normal - skaters usually have their own imagination but they don't see theirselves, and vice versa - choreographer want skater to do a thing that they can't do or hate to do and feel bad with it. It's quite difficult to find compromise. Ekaterina Gordeeva wrote in her book that Zueva (to be just, some of her programs chreographed for G/G are magnificent - especially "Rodin") sometimes wanted them to do something which was impossible while Tarasova was just coming to ice rink and knowing everything - what's the plan and how to do it.



Sure, my pleasure
SP of Maylin and Daniel Wende
FS of Maylin and Daniel Wende
SP of Stefania Berton and Ondrej Hotarek
SP 2011-2012 of Stefania Berton and Ondrej Hotarek
FS 2011-2012 of Stefania Berton and Ondrej Hotarek
FS 2012-2013 of Stefania Berton and Ondrej Hotarek - I love the way, that they are using "the soul" of flamenco in that program

Thank you so much. Now I have some homework to do! I did watch the Short and the long of Wende(s) last night. Some lovely choreography indeed, but they sure don't skate as fast as V and T, do they! Thanks again.