TEB is Cancelled

[Violet Bliss]

For all your reasoning, the authorities don't have the crystal ball and can't be sure nothing would happen. Sensitivity is nice, but actual erring on the side of caution is even nicer. Small chance of something happening is not zero, and frankly, authorities have more important things to do than analyze what the chances of a terrorist attack on an international figure skating competion in Bordeaux are. "We're not taking any chances, we're shutting everything down for a while," is actually a pretty good policy in such chaotic situation. "We thought nothing would have happened," if something happened wouldn't cut it.

I think the authorities would have had bigger problems to deal with than to carefully assess if this figure skating event was likely to become another target. It probably would have been safe. But what if anything had happened? When there was a terrorist attack as recent as 12 hours ago and a state of emergency has been declared for the whole country, I fail to see how it is a bad idea to say "better safe than sorry"

Perhaps but as government you have responsibilities, as you said, and you simply can't take that risk just because FS is not such a French thing to do. The point is that any kind of public manifestation, be that a sporting event, concert, theatre, opera etc. are cancelled in these cases and it's the most reasonable thing to do - especially when all this happens in such a short time - for security reasons in first place. But even if it was only for mourning it's not strange at all. Serie A, the highest football category in Italy, stopped for a whole weekend when Piermario Morosini, a football player in Serie B (the second category) died in 2012. The same in Argentina this year in May, when the young player Emanuel Ortega died also. It happens in Basket also. Therefore, if a single Federation does that out of respect and sensitivity towards one of their own, the government surely does the same out of respect and sensitivity of their own people who were attacked in quite a big scale in their capital.

This is what I mean by being sensitive to the frayed nerve of a terrorized public. Nowhere is safe. Such fear makes it necessary to close down all public events in the whole country. Curfews may be imposed if such terror escalates. Then laws will be passed, stripping away citizen's liberty step by step, security agencies will be set up, given broad and unconstitutional powers, police will be militarized, and so on.....

After hundreds of billions of dollars/Euros and years later, there will still be no end in the fear and the costs, with few terrorists caught while more and more potential terrorists are created and being born. Governments usually serve terrorists' goals extremely well, with their infinitely greater resources and wealth extracted from the people.

However, some ordinary people in various countries are brave and they do not allow terrorists to keep them in fear and to control their daily lives.

 

[wokulski]

Well, obviously I can't know for sure what all France population were doing this evening. I just think there must be people having a dinner out somewhere in Normandy or wherever else. France is big and I don't see a problem with that. People in Paris were advised today not to go out of their houses unless it was necessary and yet people were out, which is perfectly normal. The government has declared 3 days mourning, not a curfew.

Yes, people were "out" but theres a difference between" walking on the street "and having fun in some club or pub

 

[actualrealliveanna]

This is ridiculous. A specific act of violence in another city suddenly makes all of France unsafe? It's as if people think World War 3 has broken out in France. This is insane. You can't stop life and give in to things like this. What a waste.

The event has been cancelled. It's over. There's nothing we can do to change that, even though it really, really sad and unfortunate for many of the skaters that were scheduled to compete there.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. I don't think we should stop living, but following an attack like that, precautions should be taken. After 9/11, all airports were closed for a few days, regardless of where they were in the US, because airports were what were being targeted. In France, stadiums and concert halls were targeted. TEB takes place in a stadium - it's a precaution.

This is not a waste. What's a waste is the hundreds of human lives that were ended yesterday.

 

[dorispulaski]

I became curious about sports cancellations in the US after the Boston Marathon bombings.

Just to record what did happen to sports events in close proximity in time to the Boston Marathon bombing on the afternoon of April 15, 2013.


http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/...et-caroline-in-boston-marathon-tribute-041613

The New York Yankees had their game. They had a minute of silence and sang the Red Sox theme song, Sweet Caroline.

Note the file date line is April 16, 2013. One of the bombers was still on the loose. Boston is 215 miles from NY City. Bordeaux is 363.7 miles from Paris.


Not that that was the correct thing to do or not, but it is what was done.

9/11 is less comparable because all planes were grounded, so sports teams could not travel to where they were going. And , both New York and Washington D.C. were attacked. And one plane crashed in Pennsylvania. And Boston, Newark and Washington, DC,, where the planes departed from, were affected. And the cities where the planes were headed, but never arrived, Los Angeles and San Francisco, were also affected.



But this article, written two days after 9/11, by a man whose office was in the WTC, speaks to me:

http://baseballcrank.com/archives2/2001/09/why_baseball_st.php

And that's why baseball still matters. There must be time for mourning, of course, so much mourning, and time as well to feel secure that 55,000 people can gather safely in one place. The merciful thing is that because, save for the Super Bowl and the Olympics, U.S. sports are so little followed in the places these evildoers breed - murderous men, by contrast, have little interest in pennant races - that they have not acquired the symbolic power of our financial and military centers. But that may not be forever.

But once we feel secure to try, we owe it most of all to those who protect us as well as those who died to resume the most trivial of our pursuits. Our freedom is best expressed not when we stand in defiance or strike back with collective will, but when we are able again to view Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens as the yardsticks by which we measure nastiness, to bicker over games. That's why the Baseball Crank will be back. This column may be on hiatus for an undetermined time while the demands of work intrude - we intend to be back in business next week, and this will not be without considerable effort - but in time, I will offer again my opinion of why it would be positively criminal to give Ichiro the MVP, and why it is scandalous that Bill Mazeroski is in the Hall of Fame. And then I'll be free again

 

[Alba]

Yes, people were "out" but theres a difference between" walking on the street "and having fun in some club or pub

What's your point really? Are you saying there were no people out, having a dinner out tonight in whole france? Did you check them all? And what's wrong with that by the way?

 

[LisaS]

I can't believe the responses here. I was in NYC for 9/11 however it was air attacks. I did not feel the fear that my location could be suddenly overwhelmed by gunshots out of nowhere.

- Had this event been held in Paris it is not impossible that it would have been a target.
- Would a skater really want to take center ice within 12 hours of an attack of this magnitude, in the same country in which they are competing?.
- As a parent of a skater. "no way, no where, no how" would i want my child competing in this situation, in a country that is on high alert with the possible, although not probable risk of further attacks.
-All security and intelligence resources in France need to be focused on this historic attack of their country. Not wasted on a skating competition.
- The shine of any medals or results from this event would be forever tainted, given the circumstances.

Lastly kudos to ISU, the skaters and their support personnel for the handling of this situation. With their reaction they have shown respect, class and dignity toward their fellow competitors and associates.

not sure why you quoted me, I was answering someones question about a CBC broadcast not sure how that relates to what you posted. I posted nothing about the attacks or the situation in Paris or in Bordeaux.

 

[sowcow]

I know the short programs are posted on the CBC website but the comentary by Kurt and Carol Lane I believe is live in the studio while they watch the programs.

I'm not sure what you mean by commentary being 'live in the studio'. Kurt & Carol recorded their commentary tracks today while they watched the SP's from yesterday. They keep referencing the terror attacks from Friday during their commentary, such as talking about how Yulia reached out on social media after the Paris attacks, during commentary on her short.

I meant live today in the studio not yesterday. Someone asked for the videos of the short programs with the cbc commentary which I said was live meaning today so would not be on the website with their commentary.

Still a little confused by what you mean. How is CBC commentary 'live' when they are recording it privately so they can show it at a later time on tape-delay? 'Live in studio' implies that it is being broadcast at that exact moment, not just being recorded for later... right?
So, the footage Kurt & Carol watched was from tape-delay from yesterday, so they could record commentary today, so the entire broadcast could be shown on CBC on tape-delay. Nothing live here.

Does it matter? I thought they were in the studio live looking at the tapes from yesterday. Obviously you have knowledge that they recorded it prior to it airing that I did not. The way the present it on tv looks live just like hockey night in Canada commentators who are live The reason I posted was to tell this board what they were saying about the results being based on the short program. Now Michael Slipchuck was interviewed and confirmed it was a recommendation but it hasn't been decided yet. I will now go back to my lurkdom so I don't get jumped on again for using q word incorrectly

Oh, I think I see where you're coming from -- you're saying that you think Kurt & Carol are broadcasting live on CBC while watching tape-delayed skating?
Hockey Night in Canada is actually live because CBC covers hockey games live, so that's correct.

Yes live in the studio watching the tapes

My thought process reading through those posts ... :think: :hpull:

It seems that slightly different interpretations/meanings of a few broadcast-related words is what's causing the confusion?!? Perhaps not surprising; especially given all the possible scenarios (see below, you may be surprised)! [...so, definitely no need for you to go back to your "lurkdom" LisaS!!]

1) Most would agree there are two main types of "broadcast":

• live broadcast; or
• taped broadcast

2a) Similarly, "commentary" is usually considered as being either:

• live commentary; or
• taped commentary

2b) However, you could break down "commentary" further, into even more discrete categories:

• live "live-event" commentary
• live(ish) "post-event" commentary **
• taped "live-event" commentary
• taped "post-event" commentary

__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
​

If we consider #1 and #2a above, three scenarios are possible:

• live broadcast | taped commentary
• live broadcast | live commentary ^^
• taped broadcast | taped commentary

If we consider #1 and #2b above, seven possible scenarios emerge:

• live broadcast | taped "live event" commentary
• live broadcast | taped "post event" commentary << e.g. The CBC Broadcast from this afternoon >>
• live broadcast | live "live event" commentary ^^
• live broadcast | live(ish) "post event" commentary **
• taped broadcast | taped "live event" commentary
• taped broadcast | taped "post event" commentary
• taped broadcast | live(ish) "post event" commentary **

^^ a truly "live" broadcast in ALL respects
** In theory, the commentators could be viewing, for the 1st time, a taping of the event. So, IF they had NO prior knowledge of the competition results, then their commentary could be considered as live(ish).

 

[robredo40]

I agree with the Russians only using SP scores is bogus figure skating is a 2 part event the fs is weighed alot more they are more elements, what if the attacks had happened a day before the SP and the whole event had been cancelled what would the ISU have done then. Using only SP is giving the ISU and easy way out and penalizing the skaters.

 

[havefun]

Have all skaters, judging and technical panel convene via teleconference. Skaters skate their FS on their home ice with a Federation delegate to monitor. Run it like a realtime event at a time that is mutually agreed upon by all parties. Not ideal but better than nothing?

 

[wokulski]

What's your point really? Are you saying there were no people out, having a dinner out tonight in whole france? Did you check them all? And what's wrong with that by the way?

No,of course,nothing is wrong with that, there always be someone who CAN have dinner tonight with friends laughing and smiling .One has right to do it.On the other hand the competition(not concert or something like that )have to be cancelled and I dont know why we cant just watch it,and dont please start with "safety talk" again

 

[cheerknithanson]

Have all skaters, judging and technical panel convene via teleconference. Skaters skate their FS on their home ice with a Federation delegate to monitor. Run it like a realtime event at a time that is mutually agreed upon by all parties. Not ideal but better than nothing?

I actually like the idea. But I kind of see a problem here....How are they going to make sure the quality of camera used will be crisp enough to call edge calls or something along the matter. I know it's a minor thing. But still. Something to consider here. And also, how are they going to replay?

 

[Krunchii]

I actually like the idea. But I kind of see a problem here....How are they going to make sure the quality of camera used will be crisp enough to call edge calls or something along the matter. I know it's a minor thing. But still. Something to consider here. And also, how are they going to replay?

It's a good idea in theory but I agree, in order to get them into a rink to skate their programs they're going to need cameramen, lots of cameras, one of those mechanical cameras on the ceiling, it's very expensive probably less an hour's work (for a country with multiple entries like Japan), like would the ISU pay for this or would the skater or the Fed have to pay for it? Also some skaters are from smaller countries and probably wouldn't have the resources to do it on home ice.

 

[Rissa]

No,of course,nothing is wrong with that, there always be someone who CAN have dinner tonight with friends laughing and smiling .One has right to do it.On the other hand the competition(not concert or something like that )have to be cancelled and I dont know why we cant just watch it,and dont please start with "safety talk" again

Hasn't it been covered to death? Under the state of emergency authorities have the right to close public gatherings and French athorities have chosen to execute this right in some cases. TEB being a large international public gathering ticks quite a few boxes under the security risk assessment in the eyes of any objective authority.

 

[peg]

I still think the best balance between fair and viable would be to
a) use the SP scores from but in addition
b) allow an extra one or two entries per discipline for competitors from TEB who were on the bubble in terms of qualifying

Essentially, this would probably allow people like Patrick and Liza to qualify, but it would also allow people who might not have made the GPF had a FS been held to qualify.

Also, while there would be some added cost, it would be much less than holding a separate event or having skaters do an extra GP. The logistics would also be pretty straightforward. No need to organize a separate event, bring in additional judges, book another venue. It would be involve far fewer skaters than if everyone were to do a FS somewhere else.

 

[Alba]

This is what I mean by being sensitive to the frayed nerve of a terrorized public. Nowhere is safe. Such fear makes it necessary to close down all public events in the whole country. Curfews may be imposed if such terror escalates. Then laws will be passed, stripping away citizen's liberty step by step, security agencies will be set up, given broad and unconstitutional powers, police will be militarized, and so on.....

After hundreds of billions of dollars/Euros and years later, there will still be no end in the fear and the costs, with few terrorists caught while more and more potential terrorists are created and being born. Governments usually serve terrorists' goals extremely well, with their infinitely greater resources and wealth extracted from the people.

However, some ordinary people in various countries are brave and they do not allow terrorists to keep them in fear and to control their daily lives.

Are you suggesting that those who feel the fear right now are cowards? What's your point? Fear was not created artificially here. An act of terrorism took place last night and it was big. By definition it does bring fear and terror but people also learn how to deal with that fear and their life goes on for most of them, not just "some".

No,of course,nothing is wrong with that, there always be someone who CAN have dinner tonight with friends laughing and smiling .One has right to do it.

Not only one has the right to do it, and it's not just "someone", but it's perfectly normal. Unless you're suggesting that everybody in the world should not since after all humans were killed therefore as humans we should stop doing that for 3 days.
My point was that of course people everywhere in France will not stop living their lives during these 3 days of mourning. It's absurd. But this has nothing to do with Government decision concerned with security and declaring mourning days out of respect towards the victims and their families.

On the other hand the competition(not concert or something like that )have to be cancelled and I dont know why we cant just watch it,

I'm sorry they didn't take into account our pleasure. Sh.. happens. Deal with it.

and dont please start with "safety talk" again

So don't ask again why.

 

[wokulski]

Hasn't it been covered to death? Under the state of emergency authorities have the right to close public gatherings and French athorities have chosen to execute this right in some cases. TEB being a large international public gathering ticks quite a few boxes under the security risk assessment in the eyes of any objective authority.

I know I know I know...
"TEB a large... international.... public gathering"?????Dont make me laugh.
Theres more possibility than they will attack in next year on TEB in Paris than tonight on FS in Bordeaux. ISU do not protect the people... they are not checked out

 

[ice coverage]

Le Cru du Jour: 'We're not going to let sadness win'
Despite heavy hearts, skaters make most of beautiful day in Bordeaux

Posted 11/14/15
by Jean-Christophe Berlot, special to icenetwork
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2015/11/14/157308262​

(Apologies if already posted.)

 

[daphenaxa]

Good it was cancelled. Hope they use the SP standings as final results.

 

[Alba]

It's a good idea in theory but I agree, in order to get them into a rink to skate their programs they're going to need cameramen, lots of cameras, one of those mechanical cameras on the ceiling, it's very expensive probably less an hour's work (for a country with multiple entries like Japan), like would the ISU pay for this or would the skater or the Fed have to pay for it? Also some skaters are from smaller countries and probably wouldn't have the resources to do it on home ice.

I think there can't be a fair option for all, unfortunately. So the best solution, IMO, is the point F proposed here.

F) TAKING INTO ACCOUNT ONLY THE BEST RESULT OBTAINED BY EACH SKATER/COUPLE.
In this case, everyone will be on par, but some skaters would have the advantage of having competed in two events instead of only one. Given the emergency situation, this could be the most plausible and fair solution. This option may be developed in several ways, for example, taking into account the best placement and the highest score obtained in each program, or possibly even finding a criteria that would consider both. Logic would dictate to take the best placement obtained as the first tie-breaking and the best scores as the second. Again, given the emergency situation, they could consider to extend the Final to eight skaters/couple. Yes, the costs for the organizing committees would be a little higher and even the logistics might be more complicated, but this would make a major step forward towards the athletes and the audience.



 

[wokulski]

Not only one has the right to do it, and it's not just "someone", but it's perfectly normal. Unless you're suggesting that everybody in the world should not since after all humans were killed therefore as humans we should stop doing that for 3 days.

I am just trying to say to you that IS perfectly normal and I DONT think that we should STOP doing everything ...DO YOU UNDERSTAND????

My point was that of course people everywhere in France will not stop living their lives during these 3 days of mourning. It's absurd. But this has nothing to do with Government decision concerned with security and declaring mourning days out of respect towards the victims and their families.

Honey,theres more possibility than they will attack in next year on TEB in Paris than tonight on FS in Bordeaux