TEB is Cancelled

[Ilvskating]

So sad it turned out this way, but it's better safe than sorry. Terrorists ruined more than this event. Wish people in Paris safe.

Although I'm sorry for Patrick and Liz, I believe it is fair. In the old system, people out of top 3 in SP had very slim chance to win, and for a good reason. T be the top skaters, you were expected to do fairly well in both outing. Now we kind of get used to pull it up after a bad short, and marvel the feat. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Patrick and I love Liz a lot, almost a fan. She looks more mature and more powerful and Patrick's skating is just fabulous this year , I still enjoy his skating the most even with the failed jump. I wish them do well at World and medal their.

 

[Sugarpova]

I think honestly there is no real fair solution currently available to them. In terms of results, the fair things would have been to hold the competition today (with or without audience) or to delay one day and hold it tomorrow. (This doesn't take into account any larger issues, nor I am saying what I think should have been done, I am solely talking about the idea of fair results.)

With these options both gone, the remaining ones all are deeply unsatisfactory for different reasons.

this basically sums it up
any solution would have been unfair to someone

 

[[email protected]]

On the other hand: terrorist attack!!

I live in the country where one of the most horrific terrorist attacks in history happened: Beslan school case when 200 schoolkids were killed and 800 people wounded, I live in the country where 227 people were bombed in the plane just 2 weeks ago (with some laughs from Charlie - I wonder if they are going to ridicule people who were killed in Paris - I bet they won't). I live in the city where the number of terrorist acts over the last 15 years is higher than in the whole Western Europe. So what? That's the reality. We brought it to ourselves after starting Chechen War. The West brought it because they were not happy with Saddam and Kaddafi.

Terrorists are happy now - the effect they wanted is here. And the more events are cancelled, the more extraordinary measures are imposed the more happy they will be. We have to live in this reality.

 

[cruzceleste]

A match being held in London, not in France.

The poster declared that no other country has ever canceled events due to a terrorist attack. I pointed out that, in fact, the U.S. canceled scores of major sporting events due to the 2001 attacks. And people are arguing about that??? What??? I am confused.

As to the "Yes, but that was protocol/respect for the lost" response. How is this cancellation not protocol or respect for the lost? I suspect it is very much both and fans should respect that regardless of how GPF standings are affected. Sports is a pretty small thing in the big picture of the world. It is entertainment and diversion and if you can't accept that in times like this, you may have crossed the line from fan to fanatic.

And it is still not sure the match will take place

 

[tulosai]

About using the SP results, lots of people are claiming it's unfair, when its not, its just unfortunate. there's a difference.

Fact #1. ISU wanted to keep going but the french government ordered to cancel the event. Nothing they or we can do about it.
Fact #2. All what we have left are the SP standings. What else can we use?

If this was a soccer/basketball/ match cancelled in the middle, the win will be counted for the team leading. That's the way it is in sports. Of course it totally sucks for the skaters that fell behind in the SP but also no one forced them to do so badly.

Doing the long in another location/date is almost an impossible logistic/financial nightmare not to mention also unfair for skaters who did well yesterday like Rodeghiero/J&C/Hubbell&Donohue, so I don't see what other objective/ quantifiable numbers you could use for qualificacion rather than let the SP count.

I don't necessarily claim that there is a better (actually viable) solution at this point but I do think it is both unfair and unfortunate. It is unfair in the sense that when skaters skate they believe they will have two programs to do so, and unlike in a football game, in this situation all the skaters at the other 5 events who they are trying to qualify 'against' had the opportunity to present 2 programs. It's not like it is just one game in isolation, and perhaps yes that game will make a difference in season results but at the end of the day what can you do. In this specific instance these skaters are tangibly denied an opportunity that was presented to those they are trying to qualify against. Additionally in most other sports you have an equal opportunity to get points minute to minute (for example football as you mention). Here, the LP which is not preformed is worth literally twice as much as the SP which was.

Now this still might be the fairest (again realistic) solution given the circumstances, but to say it's not unfair in any way is stretching it I think.

I also do think (this not related to you but to general chatter) that one can fully appreciate the magnitude of the tragedy in Paris and still want to talk about the GP issues (which I do), and still be sad or even upset or angry that the event is cancelled (though I actually am not). I've lived in Paris, I have lots of close friends in Paris, heck I now live less than 3 hours from Paris. I fully appreciate what happened and the magnitude of the tragedy. It is going to take me quite some time to get over it. But I don't think that precludes me from engaging in a conversation on the GP too, even if the ideas and themes are rather trivial when compared to terrorism and death.

 

[Icey]

The competition should be continued at the next GP event.

 

[Watermelondrea]

I agree with the cancellation of the event. What about not running the FS at all and substituting the scores with Personal Bests? At least that some skaters can have a chance to move up in the standings. It's still a little unfair to skaters like Yulia who we know will never score 141 again (at least not this season) but Liza then gets up to 3rd, Gracie still in 1st putting her in the GPF, and boom. Same goes for Mens too, Shoma will stay in first, I believe that'll put Chan into 2nd, Ten in third and Kovtun in 4th.

 

[Mista Ekko]

A match being held in London, not in France.

The poster declared that no other country has ever canceled events due to a terrorist attack. I pointed out that, in fact, the U.S. canceled scores of major sporting events due to the 2001 attacks. And people are arguing about that??? What??? I am confused.

As to the "Yes, but that was protocol/respect for the lost" response. How is this cancellation not protocol or respect for the lost? I suspect it is very much both and fans should respect that regardless of how GPF standings are affected. Sports is a pretty small thing in the big picture of the world. It is entertainment and diversion and if you can't accept that in times like this, you may have crossed the line from fan to fanatic.

False (Again), I was just stating that not every other Country would've done this, Which was the statement i replied to, You decided otherwise,

And from what we've heard so far the reason of cancelation here was strictly security, Which gave birth to the"Protocol\Respect" comment.

You're problemwith me is you think my opinions are drawn from fandom or something

 

[Watermelondrea]

The competition should be continued at the next GP event.

That's a nice idea, holding the skaters in this competition completely separate from the actual competition so that the deck isn't so stacked.

 

[Layback11]

I agree with the cancellation of the event. What about not running the FS at all and substituting the scores with Personal Bests? At least that some skaters can have a chance to move up in the standings. It's still a little unfair to skaters like Yulia who we know will never score 141 again (at least not this season) but Liza then gets up to 3rd, Gracie still in 1st putting her in the GPF, and boom. Same goes for Mens too, Shoma will stay in first, I believe that'll put Chan into 2nd, Ten in third and Kovtun in 4th.

That is an excellent idea.

 

[MissCleo]

So proposals thus far presented in this thread
1. Postpone TEB FS for during the previous planned exhibition on Sunday
2. Move TEB FS to another country this weekend
3. Postpone TEB FS for after NHK trophy
4. Have results of SP become final results
5. Add skater's seasons best (or personal best) FS score to TEB SP score for final results
6. Have TEB skaters compete at COR or NHK
7. change format of GPF and invite all skaters that participated in GP
8. cancel GP series

Are there anymore suggestions? My guess is #3, #4, and maybe #6 are the most feasible. My preference is #3, I know it will be a near logistical nightmare and expensive to organize, host, and travel to the event, however at least the skaters still have a chance to complete the full competition.

 

[HanDomi]

I agree with the cancellation of the event. What about not running the FS at all and substituting the scores with Personal Bests? At least that some skaters can have a chance to move up in the standings. It's still a little unfair to skaters like Yulia who we know will never score 141 again (at least not this season) but Liza then gets up to 3rd, Gracie still in 1st putting her in the GPF, and boom. Same goes for Mens too, Shoma will stay in first, I believe that'll put Chan into 2nd, Ten in third and Kovtun in 4th.

sorry but this is unfair too to some skaters who did well in SP, you never know if some would not bomb in fs too

 

[4everchan]

yes but how would you know about having a meltdown or not? nobody does...

look, if anyone can gain some ground, it's chan... especially in this field based on PCS... and I am a crazy uber chan fan and I still it's ethical and fair that if an event is cancelled sp standings count... the only other option is to remove points to everyone... which is WAY MORE UNFAIR

But then we know skaters could have a meltdown too...
Gracie could have a terrible SP - did that never happen before?
Pairs is even worse, as most teams are virtually tied-up - a few points difference in SP that could be totally changed. Picking just 2 teams out of those to medal is like tossing a coin. It is not even about the importance of doing well all time, they all did equally well.
Those skaters have just 1 chance to do well, in the program that is worth the least. Everybody else in other events had 2 chances.
The skaters couldnt know that only SP would be worth it in advance either.
This is unfair to everybody else too, as some of the GPF people will be selected in a different criteria.

It is unfair also in case of ties? Suppose there is a tie and they have to use the highest score criteria >.>
just saying.

 

[[email protected]]

Can you translate, please, google traslated is awful

Going with just SP results will result in protests. I am sure the Canadians will protest if Chan is left without a final. How can you deprive people of the final because of the force-majeur?. I think we should also protest for Liza. She is the reigning world champion. Leaving her without final like that is not fair. I think the competition is not over. Yes, it would be positive for me but not fair for the others.

 

[tulosai]

So proposals thus far presented in this thread
1. Postpone TEB FS for during the previous planned exhibition on Sunday
2. Move TEB FS to another country this weekend
3. Postpone TEB FS for after NHK trophy
4. Have results of SP become final results
5. Add skater's seasons best (or personal best) FS score to TEB SP score for final results
6. Have TEB skaters compete at COR or NHK
7. change format of GPF and invite all skaters that participated in GP
8. cancel GP series

Are there anymore suggestions? My guess is #3, #4, and maybe #6 are the most feasible. My preference is #3, I know it will be a near logistical nightmare and expensive to organize, host, and travel to the event, however at least the skaters still have a chance to complete the full competition.

6 isn't feasible. It doesn't account for possible visa issues, for the fact that some skaters would then be competing at BOTH events that weekend, and for other legitimate scheduling conflicts skaters might already have. It's a nice idea but not actually workable.

 

[Icey]

That's a nice idea, holding the skaters in this competition completely separate from the actual competition so that the deck isn't so stacked.

That was my idea. Finish this competition at the Russian or Japanese one and then go on to the event scheduled at that place.

 

[Watermelondrea]

sorry but this is unfair too to some skaters who did well in SP, you never know if some would not bomb in fs too

Nothing is fair, but this is better than counting the SP only because, again, you wouldn't know if someone would do well in the FS to bring themselves back up. Who knows, maybe Gracie would have had an uber meltdown, Liza might have been getting ready unveil a new FS setting a new world record, Yulia might have been planning a 3A, it's a wild possibility of what the FS could have looked liked. But what I am suggesting at least puts people in their right place, for now, while keeping everyone safe.

 

[Interspectator]

Chan has a better-than-average chance of still making it to the GPF. As others have calculated, it would take Adam Rippon or Grant winning or placing second in COR for Chan to be off the final.
But as to the other concerns about fairness, I really have no idea what would be best.

 

[Watermelondrea]

That was my idea. Finish this competition at the Russian or Japanese one and then go on to the event scheduled at that place.

But then someone brought up the point about skaters having to compete and Rostelecom or NHK right after. Does anyone know which skaters planned to go to NHK or Rostelecom (Particularly Rostelecom) after TEB?

 

[paperhearts]

Just to add, here's an Italian article which gives 6 alternatives (all of which have been thoroughly discussed already here) with reasons for why they won't/might work. I do hope that the ISU can obtain an alternative which is the least disadvantageous; though in my opinion, there's no 100% fair solution to the problem and any solution may be a cause of discomfort for some.