- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
How good can they get to be?!!!!!
Tessa Virtue & Scott Moir
- Thread starter Macassar88
- Start date
How good can they get to be?!!!!!
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2014
The FD isn't working for me at all. But as I learned to appreciate Seasons, and ended up liking Latch maybe there is hope for Moulin Rouge as well.
The SD is glorious.
Which makes me wonder why their SDs are usually better material than their FDs. Usually SDs are extremely uninspired, while FDs are way better developed,but for T&S it's the opposite. Apart from their Gipsy and Charleston ODs that were okay-but-nothing-special, their senior ODs/SDs were all masterpieces, while they only had a few FDs worthy of their talent: Carmen, Umbrellas, maybe Great Gig in the Sky. Everything else worked because of how good they are. Even Mahler (that I love) was nothing special choreographically
The SD is glorious.
Which makes me wonder why their SDs are usually better material than their FDs. Usually SDs are extremely uninspired, while FDs are way better developed,but for T&S it's the opposite. Apart from their Gipsy and Charleston ODs that were okay-but-nothing-special, their senior ODs/SDs were all masterpieces, while they only had a few FDs worthy of their talent: Carmen, Umbrellas, maybe Great Gig in the Sky. Everything else worked because of how good they are. Even Mahler (that I love) was nothing special choreographically
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
Both their programs capture my attention from the start and stay captivating. They are in their own league in this event. They will only get better as they progress through the season.
Interesting question. My guess is it's because they focus more on trying to tell a story in the FD, while they focus more on the actual music and rhythm in the OD/SD.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2014
Could be. They are such great pure dancers, that the story-lines are somewhat unnecessary with them, but still I think they are good at portraying characters: they were absolutely believable in Carmen, in Umbrellas and in Funny Face. I mean they were so good at portraying characters in Funny Face that they made you forget the program wasn't that great at all.
It just puzzles me how choreographers who are capable of great programs like Marina, Marie-France and David Wilson struggle so much to give them good material for FDs. Sometimes I almost feel like they are so versatile and so good that nobody really puts some effort in their programs, because they know they will make it work no matter what, but then you look at their SDs and there is always so much sophistication, attention to details, originality and a certain Virtue/Moir signature style. It's an unresolved ongoing mystery for me...
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2012
SD post interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I08uWHonN5Y
FD post interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_e5au1Lm1c
first of all - I want to congratulate Tessa and Scott for winning ACI, producing two quality performances on programs' debut and making them impactful - in good or bad sense. I want to also thank them for making those programs as reflection of themselves now, where do they not only stand, but how they want to do it. I think personally that it takes real guts to produce a manifest, statement-like programs with awarness that the response upon it won't be universally positive, especially for Olympic season. It takes true maturity, mutual trust and confidence in what they do.
Lots of interesting point said in both interviews - first, I really appreciate this honest boldness expressed about vehicles being stuff they did connect with. It truly shows that now they are doing stuff that they want to, in a way they want to - not making themselves to fit into prepared/promoted image/convention appraised, they are making their own spin on this AND make it work competitively. Next - FD interview really proves my point already expressed in ACI FD thread that they are going with 'Moulin Rouge' personalized choice with certain, customized effect and impact programmed in it - they do know how it is supposed to look, resonate and feel. Saying that, the image produced yesterday was not yet there comparing to their finale vision. Glad that they mentioned Chouinard and Wilson input into FD choreography, because with Marie-France it shows that they went for multi-dimensional experience as for FD than trying to play only on their strenghts technical and performance-wise, based on their fortes. Scott mentioning this 'constant programs' evolution' thing proves then my admiration of them still willing to improve, challenge themselves and expand their experience - I am extremely happy that the base (as for material) and conviction/confidence in idea of them is already there and there's only way up for them now in growing those program, living them up to their expectations. SD interview really shows for me how much buzzed they are about the idea of it - and they were visibly content about the way they performed it, like they should be. I think that the only thing reqired is just time to align and translate this incredible thoughtfulness and dedication about both programs, so much reflecting them, their characters and desires, into action fully.
Seeing this kind of complexity, personal factor and ownership taken over material, it makes it even funnier for me to see the despise of both programs just because someone does not like songs used. That's a right to not like particular song, movie, but to flag the whole performance as tacky, tasteless, worthless due to that single preference? If you say so...For me, it's even better for them to be off the pack and 'out there' in terms of material, the boldness and intense factor, flavour of it - they can totally skip worrying over being or not being 'crowd pleasers', as long they hit their stuff the way they did at ACI.
FD post interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_e5au1Lm1c
first of all - I want to congratulate Tessa and Scott for winning ACI, producing two quality performances on programs' debut and making them impactful - in good or bad sense. I want to also thank them for making those programs as reflection of themselves now, where do they not only stand, but how they want to do it. I think personally that it takes real guts to produce a manifest, statement-like programs with awarness that the response upon it won't be universally positive, especially for Olympic season. It takes true maturity, mutual trust and confidence in what they do.
Lots of interesting point said in both interviews - first, I really appreciate this honest boldness expressed about vehicles being stuff they did connect with. It truly shows that now they are doing stuff that they want to, in a way they want to - not making themselves to fit into prepared/promoted image/convention appraised, they are making their own spin on this AND make it work competitively. Next - FD interview really proves my point already expressed in ACI FD thread that they are going with 'Moulin Rouge' personalized choice with certain, customized effect and impact programmed in it - they do know how it is supposed to look, resonate and feel. Saying that, the image produced yesterday was not yet there comparing to their finale vision. Glad that they mentioned Chouinard and Wilson input into FD choreography, because with Marie-France it shows that they went for multi-dimensional experience as for FD than trying to play only on their strenghts technical and performance-wise, based on their fortes. Scott mentioning this 'constant programs' evolution' thing proves then my admiration of them still willing to improve, challenge themselves and expand their experience - I am extremely happy that the base (as for material) and conviction/confidence in idea of them is already there and there's only way up for them now in growing those program, living them up to their expectations. SD interview really shows for me how much buzzed they are about the idea of it - and they were visibly content about the way they performed it, like they should be. I think that the only thing reqired is just time to align and translate this incredible thoughtfulness and dedication about both programs, so much reflecting them, their characters and desires, into action fully.
Seeing this kind of complexity, personal factor and ownership taken over material, it makes it even funnier for me to see the despise of both programs just because someone does not like songs used. That's a right to not like particular song, movie, but to flag the whole performance as tacky, tasteless, worthless due to that single preference? If you say so...For me, it's even better for them to be off the pack and 'out there' in terms of material, the boldness and intense factor, flavour of it - they can totally skip worrying over being or not being 'crowd pleasers', as long they hit their stuff the way they did at ACI.
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2012
After watching the ACI videos, here are my thoughts:
SD - WOW!!! The music cuts are just okay, but I can totally see the passion oozing out of Tessa and Scott already! :hap85: Once they get a little more speed and comfort, this program will be MIND-BLOWING!!! A+ from me on the costumes!!!
FD - I love both sections individually. They OWN El Tango de Roxanne so well and Come What May is so lovely. BUT, I don't think they fit together in the same FD. El Tango de Roxanne is a sultry song about lust, betrayal, and prostitution, while Come What May is a romantic love ballad. The tone of each song and program section is radically different. Tessa and Scott could be trying to show two sides of the same coin, but the transition between the two is a bit jarring to me. What could they do to smooth out the musical transition? Right now it feels like, "Oh, we suddenly want to dance to a ballad after our tango." The costumes are fine, but after the SD bling, these are slightly disappointing because they're more muted.
Nice program debuts with plenty of room to grow.
SD - WOW!!! The music cuts are just okay, but I can totally see the passion oozing out of Tessa and Scott already! :hap85: Once they get a little more speed and comfort, this program will be MIND-BLOWING!!! A+ from me on the costumes!!!
FD - I love both sections individually. They OWN El Tango de Roxanne so well and Come What May is so lovely. BUT, I don't think they fit together in the same FD. El Tango de Roxanne is a sultry song about lust, betrayal, and prostitution, while Come What May is a romantic love ballad. The tone of each song and program section is radically different. Tessa and Scott could be trying to show two sides of the same coin, but the transition between the two is a bit jarring to me. What could they do to smooth out the musical transition? Right now it feels like, "Oh, we suddenly want to dance to a ballad after our tango." The costumes are fine, but after the SD bling, these are slightly disappointing because they're more muted.
Nice program debuts with plenty of room to grow.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2008
This is my 1080p fancam of the 2017 ACI Ice Dance medal ceremony: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x61ya83
Here are my fancam videos of Tessa and Scott at Autumn Classic last weekend.
20170921 ACI Virtue & Moir FD Run-Through
20170922 ACI Virtue & Moir SD Run-Through
Overall, I liked the SD and the beginning of the FD, but I'm not really a fan of Moulin Rouge in general. Tessa was wearing the blue dress for their FD practice on Thursday, but I heard there may have been a different dress on Saturday's practice (I missed it so I didn't see it).
20170921 ACI Virtue & Moir FD Run-Through
20170922 ACI Virtue & Moir SD Run-Through
Overall, I liked the SD and the beginning of the FD, but I'm not really a fan of Moulin Rouge in general. Tessa was wearing the blue dress for their FD practice on Thursday, but I heard there may have been a different dress on Saturday's practice (I missed it so I didn't see it).
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2016
Even though they're busy with Olympics and GP prep Tessa & Scott took some time to be involved in a charity event: https://www.facebook.com/P2Montreal/posts/1497787396978558
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2012
in my opinion - 'recycled lifts' are the smallest issue of Tessa and Scott regarding FD, or the smallest worry to concentrate on. The biggest risk alone was to take on 'Moulin Rouge' as a program, which already shows in opinions - this is a choice very much of their personal liking and I think that the most important thing is how they will make it work as a wholesome, recycled lifts or not. Besides - for me, so far all lifts fit the dance shown at ACI quite well, but I expect the choreography and flow of the dance be altered and grow, so we will see also about the lifts.
in general, since comparisons between Tessa/Scott and Gabriella/Guillaume's materials are increasing (yet again, despite both teams being so very different) - for me, both teams are totally different in terms of aesthetic, way of movement, expression and it translates onto every area, technicalities included; both teams have different style, look different physically ad have different strengths/point of view they highlight in their work put on ice - I do not really see making less of one of them in favour of another just because of e.g. lifts they are performing, since there is too much of difference aforesaid and personal preference/opinions coming out after seeing both materials. The technical outlook, execution, elements are not the only elements composing the success of the program, yes - they are bringing the levels on place, but I think that since both FDs are quite 'personally customized', the key would be also to balance out this individuality in expression/interpretation with making the dance universally accessible, effective and engaging to watch.
in terms of 'risks' making some comparisons to Papadakis/Cizeron, I'd say that Virtue/Moir's FD is the music/theme choices alone is a bigger one, not even getting how the substance inside of it looks - while French Beethoven seems more universally appealing, Canadian definitely risked this one with 'Moulin Rouge', as so many people despise the music alone. As I said there already - I am eager to see how the 'Moulin Rouge' FD will develop and HOW Tessa and Scott will use the music, the story behind it to make it their very own and I do think that they will get as much coaches' help as they will need.
in general, since comparisons between Tessa/Scott and Gabriella/Guillaume's materials are increasing (yet again, despite both teams being so very different) - for me, both teams are totally different in terms of aesthetic, way of movement, expression and it translates onto every area, technicalities included; both teams have different style, look different physically ad have different strengths/point of view they highlight in their work put on ice - I do not really see making less of one of them in favour of another just because of e.g. lifts they are performing, since there is too much of difference aforesaid and personal preference/opinions coming out after seeing both materials. The technical outlook, execution, elements are not the only elements composing the success of the program, yes - they are bringing the levels on place, but I think that since both FDs are quite 'personally customized', the key would be also to balance out this individuality in expression/interpretation with making the dance universally accessible, effective and engaging to watch.
in terms of 'risks' making some comparisons to Papadakis/Cizeron, I'd say that Virtue/Moir's FD is the music/theme choices alone is a bigger one, not even getting how the substance inside of it looks - while French Beethoven seems more universally appealing, Canadian definitely risked this one with 'Moulin Rouge', as so many people despise the music alone. As I said there already - I am eager to see how the 'Moulin Rouge' FD will develop and HOW Tessa and Scott will use the music, the story behind it to make it their very own and I do think that they will get as much coaches' help as they will need.
the recycled lifts r a huge risk in my opinion. They will look stale in comparison to papadakis and cizeron im fearing. Do their coaches not see this?
Now it turns out that P/C have an edge on V/M precisely in lifts
the recycled lifts r a huge risk in my opinion. They will look stale in comparison to papadakis and cizeron im fearing. Do their coaches not see this?
What new lifts do P/C have over V/M? I see each of them has a new stationary lift in their FD but the others? If anything I am surprised by the similarities in P/C's SD lift and their curve lift in the FD. I know one is straightline (and she quickly stands on his leg before exit) and the other curve but look at the similarities in the mechanics of both.
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2017
The lifts are not what separates P/C and V/M's scores, which is clear to anyone that studies protocols for 5 seconds. Both teams tend to receive top scores for both lifts and twizzles regardless of what actually happens on the ice (there was that issue with P/C's curved lift exit last season that they took a while to fix, though). The point distance is mostly created by who gets their step sequences levels the highest across the board. Tessa and Scott's main advantage last season was that they were pretty much the only team to reliably hit level 4 in their SD's non-touching midline step sequence.
@Diok, I realize this is your first post, but as a P/C enthusiast I have to ask you to please refrain from posting things like this in the fan fests of other teams. You have the rest of the forum to argue your point but fan fests should be about people enjoying their favorite skaters in peace. This season of ice dance is already gonna be enough of a stan war without people trolling in the fan fests of their faves' rivals.
@Diok, I realize this is your first post, but as a P/C enthusiast I have to ask you to please refrain from posting things like this in the fan fests of other teams. You have the rest of the forum to argue your point but fan fests should be about people enjoying their favorite skaters in peace. This season of ice dance is already gonna be enough of a stan war without people trolling in the fan fests of their faves' rivals.
I fully agree with this. This year's short dances are really amazing. Starting from the same basis (samba and rumba rhythms) both teams managed to create great and stunning programs which are completely different in the end. Regarding FDs, I am in sync with you, I guess both teams wanted to be "themselves" and, like for SD, it's therefore not that surprising both programs are so different. Music wise, I think both Moulin Rouge and Moonlight Sonata are really challenging choices. Moonlight Sonata requires a lot of softness and smooth moves on the ice, especially the first movement. Moulin Rouge requires deep feelings and channelized energy across the different parts.
I'm curious to see their FD. Their SD is ready for the olympics! It was fire!
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