The best felmale lutz
- Thread starter kosjenka
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- Jul 28, 2003
Maria Butyrskaya, Julia Sebestyen and Viktoria Volchkova are candidates. I'd say Julia Sebestyen. Perfect edge, great height and good run out and flow.
I agree with Riskatingfan. Michelle had true great lutz when she was around 14 and later on her edge changed a little... I am wondering why many top coaches don't take time to fix their elite students' flutzs. It's too hard to fix or they just put more attention to artistry and choreography to win the freeskate?
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
I don't think Michelle ever had a great lutz, even when she doesn't flutz the jump is still very small compared with, for example, Irina Slutskaya's or Julia Sebestyen's.
Not fixing a lutx has nothing to do with winning LPs or putting more effort in presentation. Not many skaters change the lutz because they can't - it's extremely hard. The skater would have to re-learn the jump all over again. It is very tough, time consuming, it may not work and the fact that judges don't seem to punish the wrong technique very hard certainly doesn't put much pressure on the skater to change it. Mostly, it's very hard to forget the technique they've been using for years and change it. They could be able to fix it, but then, it may take lots of time until the jump becomes consistent. A top skater doesn't want to ruin their chances to win by falling on a jump.
I know Joannie Rochette fixed her lutz but she is a rare case.
I'm not sure how correct this is, but I once read that women having more difficulty to do a true lutz than the men (although you can find men that flutz) may have something to do with anatomy.
Not fixing a lutx has nothing to do with winning LPs or putting more effort in presentation. Not many skaters change the lutz because they can't - it's extremely hard. The skater would have to re-learn the jump all over again. It is very tough, time consuming, it may not work and the fact that judges don't seem to punish the wrong technique very hard certainly doesn't put much pressure on the skater to change it. Mostly, it's very hard to forget the technique they've been using for years and change it. They could be able to fix it, but then, it may take lots of time until the jump becomes consistent. A top skater doesn't want to ruin their chances to win by falling on a jump.
I know Joannie Rochette fixed her lutz but she is a rare case.
I'm not sure how correct this is, but I once read that women having more difficulty to do a true lutz than the men (although you can find men that flutz) may have something to do with anatomy.
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- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
RIskatingfan said:
ITA. Michelle never had a great lutz. Re:the anatomical differences- the lutz does take a lot of strength because the rotation is in the opposite direction to the blade. Still, there are ladies like Maria Butyrskaya who are small but they can do a true lutz. Viktoria Volchkova has a beautiful one (she is not exactly 'tiny'). I am sure that with enough hard work the ladies can do a true lutz, but not many are taking the time. Sarah and Sasha have won with really bad flutzes, so why would anyone want to fix theirs?
I watched a few Michelle early year's programs when she was around 14, she did have true lutz. Back than her lutz was so different than now, and even than her first world title time.
My daughter is taking lessons from a new coach who is good at teaching true technique. In just a few lessons they fixed her flutz. For years nobody said anything about it, or coaches worried if they try to change it, she may not be able even to land a flutz. But I guess if a right coach teaches in a no-stress way, flutz can be corrected. Sure putting into program is a lot harder.
My daughter is taking lessons from a new coach who is good at teaching true technique. In just a few lessons they fixed her flutz. For years nobody said anything about it, or coaches worried if they try to change it, she may not be able even to land a flutz. But I guess if a right coach teaches in a no-stress way, flutz can be corrected. Sure putting into program is a lot harder.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
No she didn't. If anything it was worse then. I don't think it's possible for an already "true" lutz to becoome a flutz unless the skater intended to do so for some queer reason.
I voted for Ye Bin's for the best lutz. Not only is it a pure lutz, but it also gets such effortless height, distance, and run out.
I voted for Ye Bin's for the best lutz. Not only is it a pure lutz, but it also gets such effortless height, distance, and run out.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I'm with shine on this one. Ye Bin has a gorgeous lutz, as does Vika, and let's not forget Shizuka! All fabulous lutzers.
I agree that it would be very hard to fix a lutz. The skater would have to start back over with a single lutz and work her (or his) way back up to a triple. Not sure what level jess' daugher is at, but that's my understanding from my coach about the way to fix it. (I have accepted, that if I get to jumps, I will flutz because outside edges are so NOT my strength.
)
Laura
I agree that it would be very hard to fix a lutz. The skater would have to start back over with a single lutz and work her (or his) way back up to a triple. Not sure what level jess' daugher is at, but that's my understanding from my coach about the way to fix it. (I have accepted, that if I get to jumps, I will flutz because outside edges are so NOT my strength.
)Laura
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Nancy Kerrigan did a terrific triple lutz jump. Some other ladies with good lutz jumps: Tonya Harding (although I always thought her best triple was the loop) and Shizuka Arakawa. Also, when Tanja Szewczenko actually landed her triple lutz it was massive!
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
There are lots of great lutzes out there but for an opinionated 'best', I would say Oksana but only when she is on. Aside from MK's small height in the lutz, I think Mok would be the highest and probably the best of the American ladies. In fact, there are only MK and YBM that actually do lutzes. Are the coaches of other American skaters aware of this?
One of the many nitpicking things I will be looking for in the coming season will be: MK - Has Arutunian worked on the height of her jumps? The jumps themselves are perfect but small.
YBM - Has her coach worked on her confidence? She's got the talent.
Joe
One of the many nitpicking things I will be looking for in the coming season will be: MK - Has Arutunian worked on the height of her jumps? The jumps themselves are perfect but small.
YBM - Has her coach worked on her confidence? She's got the talent.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
I've never seen Mok, but Michelle flutzes many times. I believe not always (I think she hit the flat some times), but I've seen her flutz as so many others.Joesitz said:
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Erm, Bobek had a huge honkin' flutz....
The first lady to 3z - Denise Bielman (sp?).
Also, Midori Ito (of course) and Tatiana Malinina, who I thought lutzed like Plushy and the bois. Oksana B was another.....generally, top Russian/European ladies have excellent lutz technique imo. The top Japanese ladies too.
Hmmmm.....come to think of it, If I recall correctly, up to Bobek, all of the top ladies doing 3 lutz (inlcuding the US ladies) did the jump well. AFAIR, the only top-flight ladies who flutz/ed (to whatever degree) have been Bobek, Kwan, Lipinski, Hughes and Cohen (please correct me if this is not the case), so it is a US only thing? I mean, I've never heard any Euro ladies' lutz bring on bursts of cyber-contempt like those of Sarah Hughes or Sasha...
However, from the reports I have read, it seems that the likes of Meissner et al do not flutz, so maybe it's just a passing trend......
Forgot to agree with Icenut about Liz Manley - she did a great 3lutz in her Calgary FS! OT, but how lucky was that crowd that night? - no ladies' 3 Lutz ever at an OG and then suddenly, two of them within an hour! And top quality jumps at that!
Also, Midori Ito (of course) and Tatiana Malinina, who I thought lutzed like Plushy and the bois. Oksana B was another.....generally, top Russian/European ladies have excellent lutz technique imo. The top Japanese ladies too.
Hmmmm.....come to think of it, If I recall correctly, up to Bobek, all of the top ladies doing 3 lutz (inlcuding the US ladies) did the jump well. AFAIR, the only top-flight ladies who flutz/ed (to whatever degree) have been Bobek, Kwan, Lipinski, Hughes and Cohen (please correct me if this is not the case), so it is a US only thing? I mean, I've never heard any Euro ladies' lutz bring on bursts of cyber-contempt like those of Sarah Hughes or Sasha...
However, from the reports I have read, it seems that the likes of Meissner et al do not flutz, so maybe it's just a passing trend......Forgot to agree with Icenut about Liz Manley - she did a great 3lutz in her Calgary FS! OT, but how lucky was that crowd that night? - no ladies' 3 Lutz ever at an OG and then suddenly, two of them within an hour! And top quality jumps at that!
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Actually the first triple lutz in a ladies lp at the Olys was Denise Biellmann in 1980 although it may have been slightly 2 footed.
There was an American girl in the 80's who was mentioned in a book - maybe one of Brennans who apparently had a flawless triple lutz. I can't recall her name but Carlo Fassi apparently commented that she should have won the 84 and 88 Olys - so good was her free skating. However she was injured and had to retire from skating but is now coaching.
Does anyone else recall ever reading this?
There was an American girl in the 80's who was mentioned in a book - maybe one of Brennans who apparently had a flawless triple lutz. I can't recall her name but Carlo Fassi apparently commented that she should have won the 84 and 88 Olys - so good was her free skating. However she was injured and had to retire from skating but is now coaching.
Does anyone else recall ever reading this?
