Jacksons to Aura or Edea for adult skater?

[kyraannk]

Hi folks!
I'm in a dilemma here. Returning 28 year old wanting to reclaim axel and early doubles. 5'5" 140 pounds.
I had Jackson Elite C width boots for over 10 years. They always caused me bad achy sole pain during the first 30 minutes of skating.

8 months ago, I got a pair of custom Jackson Supreme 5300 B width boots. These have been the boots from hell. Excruciating pain. They have been punched out several times with multiple types of insoles. This has completely hindered my progress. In the rare moments that they don't hurt, they are awesome and I love how they feel.

New skate tech recommends trying Aura Sky 50/100 or Edea Chorus/ Ice Fly. My old techs also recommended Edea and Risport. My coach worries about transitioning to a new brand. I am very confused on who to give $1000 to I'm so tired of wasting time on this!

Any advice or anecdotes of experience would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

What is your foot shape? Also, if your feet hurt in Jackson 5300's, the others being suggested to you are stiffer and will really hurt.

 

[kyraannk]

What is your foot shape? Also, if your feet hurt in Jackson 5300's, the others being suggested to you are stiffer and will really hurt.

Looking at the charts, maybe Greek? And I believe the severe pain came from the 5300 being too narrow, but even the freestyles when I was a teen caused me issues too. I have an appointment with a 3rd tech who carries all these brands and will ask what stiffness he recommends.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Looking at the charts, maybe Greek? And I believe the severe pain came from the 5300 being too narrow, but even the freestyles when I was a teen caused me issues too. I have an appointment with a 3rd tech who carries all these brands and will ask what stiffness he recommends.

If you have a Greek foot then no to aura and edea. Your foot isn't narrow enough.

You need to look at Risport RF line and Graf. In Risport Rf3 or RF1. Do not do the Royal line b/c they aren't going to fit right.
Graf: Richmond Special. I'm telling you this as a professional who's either tested or competed in many of these boots.

 

[kyraannk]

If you have a Greek foot then no to aura and edea. Your foot isn't narrow enough.

You need to look at Risport RF line and Graf. In Risport Rf3 or RF1. Do not do the Royal line b/c they aren't going to fit right.
Graf: Richmond Special. I'm telling you this as a professional who's either tested or competed in many of these boots.

Ok thanks for the suggestion! New shop has Risport so I'll ask about them

 

[IceM]

Moving to Edea/Risport/Aura will mostly just lift your heel, which means the boot is balanced more frontward, and you might need a shorter blade. Not a huge issue, and you will adjust just fine given your skating level.

That sort of arch pain is almost always your forefoot not having the space to spread naturally, the arch gets tension and as the blood flow is restricted, you get that burning and aching sensation. So make sure to have a shop/tech stretch the forefoot more (punchouts alone aren't enough). Different lacing can help too. And I say this based on both anecdotal evidence and science.

I'm a little perplexed how you were put into custom B width, but sounds they were definitely not great for you (perhaps you have narrow heels?).

As already suggested, Risport RF line and Graf would be my first picks also. You might still need to have the forefoot stretched, as Risports are not significantly wider than Jacksons in that area. Aura/Edea aren't terrible, but you would probably need even more stretching (and then there's the open ankle design which on top of raising the heel you might not like). Still, it's worth to try all the brands for fit if possible. Graf is rarely stocked, but if you want to try them (they are closest to Jackson heel lift, so you wouldn't have to change blade size), you can probably get them ordered to try. You can also get them custom ordered to your measurements, which is just like 100 bucks extra, if I recall correct. If you get white boots, you can get Edmonton specials too, they are not significantly stiffer than the Richmonds, but both will work for you. And you probably want the Grafs in L width (or just send Graf your measurements and let them figure it out). I have worn all the above brands, both custom boots and stock boots with considerable modifications, so I have a pretty good idea how they fit.

PS: The width issues are really common in figure skates; since the old aesthetic where narrow feet are considered more beautiful is still deeply ingrained, resulting in boots that are not really made for the average feet. A previous poster on the forums was told recently in their fitting that "unfortunately figure skating is a sport for people with smaller/narrower feet" which is just LOL. When you compare figure skates to hockey skates, the difference is pretty obvious. From a functional standpoint, there's no real reason for it. Hockey just takes function more seriously than aesthetics, I guess. /endrant

 

[IceM]

Do you think switching away from Jackson is worth it overall?

That depends on whether you can make the Jacksons you have work with modifications. That's where I would start, but more on that later. The toebox in Jacksons isn't the best for your foot type, Risport/Edea fits yours better (as do mine with African foot type, which is like Greek but the big toe is the same length as the second toe). But the toebox shape isn't everything.

Like, even in the C width why would it hurt like that?

They could, given your Greek foot type, so your forefoot might not sit exactly where the boot's shape expects it to be for that size. Do the custom Jacksons have a tapered toebox compared to your stock C width Jacksons? If not, then that's odd, as Graf makes the toebox based on your foot shape (my custom Grafs have tapered toeboxes like Risports, unlike stock Grafs which are closer to Jackson). Also, you might just have wide (or "wide" as in just average) forefoot (even C width Jacksons, or Risports for that matter, aren't especially wide there, because like I said, figure skates tend to fit too narrow even in the "regular" and "wide" widths for people with just normal average feet).

With average width heels you should fit Risports (and Grafs) well in that regards. Jacksons in wide widths might be too wide in the heel, and that's a big no-no, so watch out for that.

If I were you, I would start with taking those custom Jacksons you have and stretching the toebox with a boot stretcher (shops have these, or a cobbler can do it too) significantly; about two width sizes at least to a D or so (so wider than even your C Jacksons). Then lace them outside in (the "Edea" way, you can find videos online if unsure) which will wrap the upper better around your foot instead of pushing the tongue down more (even if you slightly overshoot the stretching, the boot will form around your foot with tight lacing). If this doesn't do anything to the pain, then you should surely switch brands.

Switching might seem daunting, especially if you need to change blades too. But again, given your level, I'm sure you can adapt. And you might actually prefer the higher heels (there are benefits to them).

Take it from someone with plenty of experience in foot pain in basically all brands, both when I was still competing, and now much later: If I can skate pain free, which I can, you can too. Just need to get some small details right!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

That depends on whether you can make the Jacksons you have work with modifications. That's where I would start, but more on that later. The toebox in Jacksons isn't the best for your foot type, Risport/Edea fits yours better (as do mine with African foot type, which is like Greek but the big toe is the same length as the second toe). But the toebox shape isn't everything.



They could, given your Greek foot type, so your forefoot might not sit exactly where the boot's shape expects it to be for that size. Do the custom Jacksons have a tapered toebox compared to your stock C width Jacksons? If not, then that's odd, as Graf makes the toebox based on your foot shape (my custom Grafs have tapered toeboxes like Risports, unlike stock Grafs which are closer to Jackson). Also, you might just have wide (or "wide" as in just average) forefoot (even C width Jacksons, or Risports for that matter, aren't especially wide there, because like I said, figure skates tend to fit too narrow even in the "regular" and "wide" widths for people with just normal average feet).

With average width heels you should fit Risports (and Grafs) well in that regards. Jacksons in wide widths might be too wide in the heel, and that's a big no-no, so watch out for that.

If I were you, I would start with taking those custom Jacksons you have and stretching the toebox with a boot stretcher (shops have these, or a cobbler can do it too) significantly; about two width sizes at least to a D or so (so wider than even your C Jacksons). Then lace them outside in (the "Edea" way, you can find videos online if unsure) which will wrap the upper better around your foot instead of pushing the tongue down more (even if you slightly overshoot the stretching, the boot will form around your foot with tight lacing). If this doesn't do anything to the pain, then you should surely switch brands.

Switching might seem daunting, especially if you need to change blades too. But again, given your level, I'm sure you can adapt. And you might actually prefer the higher heels (there are benefits to them).

Take it from someone with plenty of experience in foot pain in basically all brands, both when I was still competing, and now much later: If I can skate pain free, which I can, you can too. Just need to get some small details right!

As someone with a Greek foot type, I can say for sure that Edea is not a good fitting boot for said foot type. Hence why I never suggest it to Greek foot types.

 

[IceM]

As someone with a Greek foot type, I can say for sure that Edea is not a good fitting boot for said foot type. Hence why I never suggest it to Greek foot types.

I agree, but with a caveat. I was referring specifically to the toebox shape, and Greek foot type is exactly what the Risport/Edea toebox is designed to accommodate, and not, say, Egyptian (for whom Edea is often suggested), who would actually benefit from a more rounded toebox, such as those in Grafs and Jacksons. But toebox is not be-all end-all, like I mentioned (and it can be modified).

The thing is, Greek/African feet also tend to be wider than average in the forefoot, and while the uppers can be stretched, the sole on Edeas is really narrow too. So even with modifications, it's often just not the optimal sole shape for people with that foot type, because you can't modify the soles. But for someone with particularly narrow feet and a Greek foot shape, Edea can still be a very good fit. You could even say optimal. Risports just tend to be a bit more realistic and fit the actual average width better for most people with a Greek foot type (like you and me).

Because at the end of the day, there's still a lot of individual variation, even within a given foot type. So while on average I'd agree and approach Edea with caution for Greek foot types, I still leave room for individual variation and don't judge fit based on foot type alone. And I say this as someone who can still skate in Edeas pain free, with like, EEEE+ wide forefoot (still, they're not optimal, of course; my feet are basically twice the width of the insole they come with for my size).

PS: And I have to say, Edea is probably one of the biggest offenders (along with Riedell) when it comes to boots that don't actually fit real feet. And that at least partly proves the point about the ingrained aesthetic standards, and why people buy them, because they make your feet look really narrow and pointed, and apparently narrow and pointed is still "pretty" (and this goes back to some pretty silly medieval European aristocratic fashion, but I won't go there lol).

And just as an example, here's a D width Edea and Graf that was actually made for my feet, side by side, both are similar size length wise (the Graf is actually slightly smaller). The difference is, hopefully, quite noticeable:

 

[Diana Delafield]

And just as an example, here's a D width Edea and Graf that was actually made for my feet, side by side, both are similar size length wise (the Graf is actually slightly smaller). The difference is, hopefully, quite noticeable:

I can see the difference, but am not sure which boot in the picture is which brand. The description says an Edea and a Graf, but which way should the picture then be viewed? Top and bottom, or rotated so that they're left and right? The top one looks like my new custom Grafs, made for my very narrow pointy Egyptian feet. I've never tried on Edeas. My fitter says they're too loose in the toebox for me, and I don't like their tricked-out look anyway. Most important, their heels are too high for someone with a very high arch and "clawtoes", who basically walks on her toe tips and the back edge of her heels. As a ballroom dancer, I buy only kids' shoes which are restricted by the rules to no more than 1 1/2" heels, unlike the women's shoes that are mostly on towering 4" heels. I might as well be wearing ballet pointe shoes to dance in those that height.

 

[IceM]

The description says an Edea and a Graf, but which way should the picture then be viewed?

Top is Edea Ice Fly; bottom is Graf Washington.

Edeas have similarly high heels to Risports, but the sole slope is slightly different and even more aggressive, if that makes sense. Grafs are definitely more “back-heavy”; they’re balanced more like classical wooden shoes from back in the day, whereas Edeas are essentially high heels (and Risports to a lesser degree as well)...

I'm interested to see your Grafs, just out of curiosity. Go team Graf!

 

[Diana Delafield]

Top is Edea Ice Fly; bottom is Graf Washington.

Edeas have similarly high heels to Risports, but the sole slope is slightly different and even more aggressive, if that makes sense. Grafs are definitely more “back-heavy”; they’re balanced more like classical wooden shoes from back in the day, whereas Edeas are essentially high heels (and Risports to a lesser degree as well)...

I'm interested to see your Grafs, just out of curiosity. Go team Graf!

Odd, I feel quite a big difference in heel height between Risports (lower heels), which are my usual choice, and any others I've tried on as experiments. My Grafs are packed and ready to go to the club this afternoon. Too lazy to unpack, set somewhere for photo, find card to go in camera since I don't own a phone that takes pictures, take picture, take card out of camera and put it in add-on thingy that slots into the computer etc etc etc. More importantly, my cat is sleeping with his head on my lap. Can't move until he wakes up. First rule of cat servitude.

 

[IceM]

I feel quite a big difference in heel height between Risports

Yeah they definitely fit different, but it's more to with the sole slope than the heel height, as evident by the fact that both Risports and Edeas fit the same blade sizes (or very close) for a given boot size, so the length from heel to toe is similar (and hence the heel height as well). Much lower heel boots like Grafs take longer blades for this reason.

My Grafs are packed and ready to go to the club this afternoon. Too lazy to unpack

Fair enough . I hope they fit and work great for you! And I'm sure they look just as classy as mine.

 

[kyraannk]

Update!
Went to the new skate fitter. Tried on a bunch of Edea and Risport. I think I realize that I have been so used to the super stiff ankle of the Jackson that trying on anything else felt flimsy. It was so hard to judge, the Risports were all extremely comfortable. The fitter had a slight preference to put me an Edea (ice fly or concerto, not really sure the difference) because he has a ton of experience with adjusting and heat molding them and wants to be able to make all the necessary adjustments. I also had to get a smaller blade.
He let me borrow his wife's Pianos to test which are D width (great in the toe box, too big in the heel). Gosh, what a shocking difference! The damn ankle is SO wiggly, but at the same time, my edges and knee bend felt fantastic. And there was very little pain. I really feel like I can feel the blade on them which is nice and love how light weight they are. I am very scared of the loose ankle though! If it goes poorly this week with the test skates then I'll probably go back to discuss risports again.

 

[IceM]

(ice fly or concerto, not really sure the difference)

Concerto is ever so slightly softer, with a leather upper instead of the synthetic in Ice Fly/Piano, and different inner padding.

he has a ton of experience with adjusting and heat molding them and wants to be able to make all the necessary adjustments. I also had to get a smaller blade.

Heat-moding the leather upper of the Concerto doesn't differ from molding the leather upper of the Risport RF1. Risport Royal Pro/Prime also have a similar synthetic upper and a loose ankle like Edeas. The difference is the actual soles which are leather in Risport, and hollow plastic in Edeas (hence Edeas will always be lighter). But the leather has the benefit of the skates being able to be put into a skate oven, wheteas Edeas cannot, because the plastic soles will literally melt, making Edeas much harder to heat-mold (has to be done with heat guns applying heat directly on the uppers without melting the soles). If you fit Edea, you will also fit Risport Royal. And overall, Edea soles are quite bad in quality (not level, so blades are misaligned without using wedges etc.).

If I can be frank, it sounds like the fitter is pushing you toward Edeas because they break down faster, meaning people need to replace them more often. If Edeas truly work for you, then go ahead with them, but don't let a fitter pressure you into buying them using an excuse like them being easier to heat-mold (they're not; quite the opposite).

 

[kyraannk]

Hi folks! Wanted to give an update. Thank you for all of your help, making decisions like this is confusing and lonely as an adult skater!
The reason our appointment ended up focusing more on Edea is because I mentioned that my Golden Horse Inline skates cause very little pain, and apparently they are modeled after Edea. The fitter at Proswizzles wanted to prioritize my comfort. I wanted to try more Risports after all of the suggestions about them but he didn't have rf3 in stock, and Royale pro felt too flimsy for what I'm used to (even if it would have been fine) and rf1 was too much.
He didn't have Concerto in stock and I just wanted to get back on the ice asap so we went with ice fly C width. After several length and 1 or 2 width adjustments same day, and now after having skated for a few weeks on them... The Edeas cause some mild sole pain for about 10 minutes and then nothing. I'm getting used to the lace tying and I can't believe I can skate in such comfort.

Being able to skate unhindered is magical and I can't get enough

I am so upset that I let myself suffer with my old skates for 8 months (I was not able to actually skate much during this time, really only try them out after each adjustment). I was convinced there was something medically wrong based on what the old fitter said. The old fitter insisted on stretching the Jackson Supremes one more time and will definitely not give any sort of refund, but I may try. I don't even want to try them again because of all the hassle and then having 2 pairs of different skates even if he fixes them.

 

[Query]

I was convinced there was something medically wrong based on what the old fitter said.

Maybe there was something medically wrong with the old fitter. In the head.

I hope the sole pain disappearing after 10 minutes doesn't mean that you are numbing the feet due to insufficient blood flow, because they are too tight somewhere.

If the sole pain is at the front of the foot, you could try tying the bottom less tightly. People sometimes tie a surgeon knot between loose and tight sections so the lace doesn't slip much between them. Edea's lacing pattern - which, BTW, isn't unique to Edea - will also help reduce slippage.

Another thing to try would be to relace them altogether, leaving off the bottom level or two.

BTW, if you are wearing normal or thick socks, moving to extremely thin ones might make a little extra space.

So could replacing the insoles with something very thin.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hi folks! Wanted to give an update. Thank you for all of your help, making decisions like this is confusing and lonely as an adult skater!
The reason our appointment ended up focusing more on Edea is because I mentioned that my Golden Horse Inline skates cause very little pain, and apparently they are modeled after Edea. The fitter at Proswizzles wanted to prioritize my comfort. I wanted to try more Risports after all of the suggestions about them but he didn't have rf3 in stock, and Royale pro felt too flimsy for what I'm used to (even if it would have been fine) and rf1 was too much.
He didn't have Concerto in stock and I just wanted to get back on the ice asap so we went with ice fly C width. After several length and 1 or 2 width adjustments same day, and now after having skated for a few weeks on them... The Edeas cause some mild sole pain for about 10 minutes and then nothing. I'm getting used to the lace tying and I can't believe I can skate in such comfort.

Being able to skate unhindered is magical and I can't get enough

I am so upset that I let myself suffer with my old skates for 8 months (I was not able to actually skate much during this time, really only try them out after each adjustment). I was convinced there was something medically wrong based on what the old fitter said. The old fitter insisted on stretching the Jackson Supremes one more time and will definitely not give any sort of refund, but I may try. I don't even want to try them again because of all the hassle and then having 2 pairs of different skates even if he fixes them.

Glad you found something, but confused at how Ice Fly one of the stiffest Edea boots is not too stiff, but RF1 is and it's the same level.

 

[kyraannk]

Maybe there was something medically wrong with the old fitter. In the head.

I hope the sole pain disappearing after 10 minutes doesn't mean that you are numbing the feet due to insufficient blood flow, because they are too tight somewhere.

If the sole pain is at the front of the foot, you could try tying the bottom less tightly. People sometimes tie a surgeon knot between loose and tight sections so the lace doesn't slip much between them. Edea's lacing pattern - which, BTW, isn't unique to Edea - will also help reduce slippage.

Another thing to try would be to relace them altogether, leaving off the bottom level or two.

BTW, if you are wearing normal or thick socks, moving to extremely thin ones might make a little extra space.

So could replacing the insoles with something very thin.

Hahaha! Hi! I was planning on getting the bunyon area punched out just a little more, as that part of my foot really sticks out and that is wear the current pressure exists!

Glad you found something, but confused at how Ice Fly one of the stiffest Edea boots is not too stiff, but RF1 is and it's the same level.

Glad you found something, but confused at how Ice Fly one of the stiffest Edea boots is not too stiff, but RF1 is and it's the same level.

Just kidding, thats not the boot i tried on. He said "this is the boot Ilia wears" which looks like the royal prime instead (and saying this psyched me out). But it was about what he had in store felt best. I'm definitely interested in trying on the RF line in the future.

 

[Query]

Just kidding, thats not the boot i tried on. He said "this is the boot Ilia wears"

Did he guarantee that you could skate like Ilia skates most of the time if you bought those skates?

Sorry, couldn't resist. Telling someone they should buy a pair of skates because someone famous uses them is nuts.