The credibility of figure skating : Is it a sport or a popularity contest with sponsors ?

[Poodlepal]

My comments below are based on the psyche of American sports fans. It may or may not apply to other countries.

We like our sports to be sudden death, win or lose, lay it all out on the line.

I understand that USFS had publicized the rules ahead of time, and their deviation from strict placements to select the Olympic team should not have been a surprise.

But this mindset plays against how Americans perceive sport.

The Superbowl doesn't feature the teams the league officials believe have played best over the season. It's a death match between the two teams who have dodged all the bullets and come through during the playoffs. The Olympic swimming/track teams are decided on the field of play. Diving, another subjectively judged sport, has Olympic trials. In all the events, it's "Go Big or Go Home."

When the casual figure skating fan sees the type of outcome we saw in Boston (and the outcome of Japanese nationals, for that matter), it feeds into the notion that figure skating is rigged. Non-skating fans, who we'd hope to lure in, see it as a non-sport.

Again, USFS did nothing against the rules technically, but they have tarnished the image of the sport among the general public.

In Olympic years, US Nats should be billed as The Olympic Trials. One man's opinion.

Agree with everything you say. I'm a Yankees fan, and several times in the 2000's, they've had the best record, but have lost in the wildcard round to an "inferior" team. That's sports for you.

Is there another sport whose teams are chosen like this? I don't believe so, and I agree with Tonto that it does hurt its reputation.

 

[aftertherain]

The perfect segue to a tweet I noticed yesterday, from an Olympic gold medalist who knows a thing or two about the Karolyis:

Dominique Moceanu
‏@Dmoceanu

Another subjective decision in a subjective sport! Thoughts? #WagnerNagasu #IceSkating #Gymnastics #Boston2014
4:30 PM - 12 Jan 14
https://twitter.com/Dmoceanu/status/422526114142355456
​

Still completely and totally annoying that they are pitting Ashley against Mirai when that shouldn't even be the case. It's gotten to the point where I've seen Ashley being called derogatory names that are commonly used for women and suggesting that she got the spot using scandalous means.

Disgusting.

 

[skatingfan4ever]

Is there another sport whose teams are chosen like this? I don't believe so, and I agree with Tonto that it does hurt its reputation.

Gymnastics has a different selection process too. Does anyone remember what happened to Kim Kelly in 1992? She finished 6th at the Olympic Trials (top 7 went to Barcelona) but was left off the team because USA Gymnastics held a secret meeting right before the Games and gave her spot to a gymnast who was coming back from injury.

Nowadays, gymnastics competitions are so complicated that placements at the Olympic Trials don't really matter. It's all about putting together the team that has the best chance to do well.

 

[RobinA]

"Until this past weekend"???? Mark Mitchell might beg to differ. People who want a sport by the numbers have hundreds to chose from. Skating, gymnastics and diving are judged. Gymnastics plays some wild shenanigans when picking Olympic teams, they basically do what they want. Do people ask if that's really a sport? Maybe they do. I've never heard it, but I don't follow it as deeply as skating.

 

[FlattFan]

These shenanigans have to go. How? By slapping it with a lawsuit. These people will never learn. The puppets sitting assigning PCS and GOE are being told ahead of time to place skaters. It's more egregious in skating than any other sport.
All sitting at home can see and predict the stock of each skater. What kind of sport is this? Doesn't matter what you do, your stock is free falling. You can't say this about a lot of other judged sport.

 

[leafygreens]

What surprises me is that Ashley did so bad that they could not get her on that podium. Patrick Chan falls twice on some occasions and still beats several clean-skating people. I thought Mirai or whomever was in front of Ashley would be screwed on the scoring level, not by beating her then getting shafted. Especially not Mirai, whose clean-skates are often scored low because of UR's that can only be seen on a monitor in slo-mo.

Ashley's skate must have been worse than it looked to the naked eye that they couldn't find some points for her.

For once, the judges scored right. It was the Backroom Deal Committee that is to be blamed.

 

[Victura]

What surprises me is that Ashley did so bad that they could not get her on that podium. Patrick Chan falls twice on some occasions and still beats several clean-skating people. I thought Mirai or whomever was in front of Ashley would be screwed on the scoring level, not by beating her then getting shafted. Especially not Mirai, whose clean-skates are often scored low because of UR's that can only be seen on a monitor in slo-mo.

Ashley's skate must have been worse than it looked to the naked eye that they couldn't find some points for her.

They did find some points for her, but it wasn't enough. Ashley herself said in the kiss and cry - "that's so high" after receiving her scores while shaking her head.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

I'm outraged by their decision to drop Mirai. Mirai isn't my favorite skater. I actually don't care about her. I care about right and integrity. I would be equally angry if Agnes was in third and got dropped.

From this day on, US Federation will not see a cent from me. I'm done with this stupid organization. I do hope they go bankrupt and disappear.

Dude. I couldn't agree more... It's just ridiculous. Now, I'm a Mirai fan who isn't known for being objective, but my goodness... At some point, sports need to be accountable and have some form of integrity. If not, then it's not a sport. It's a high school homecoming queen election!!! Ashley choked and shouldn't be rewarded for that and I'd say that about ANY skater (well, not about Michelle Kwan of course, but that's different. That's all about worship.)

 

[Near]

Agree with everything you say. I'm a Yankees fan, and several times in the 2000's, they've had the best record, but have lost in the wildcard round to an "inferior" team. That's sports for you.

Is there another sport whose teams are chosen like this? I don't believe so, and I agree with Tonto that it does hurt its reputation.

In Canada at least most sports have some discritionary places and Skate Canada makes it clear that placement at national does NOT guarantee a place on the team.

 

[scooter]

Judges at Nationals used to prop up the skaters that they wanted to send to World's/Olympics. What changed here, was that the judges judged the actual competition, and THEN the decision was made to send the 4th place skater.

It was going to be pretty hard to prop her up with 2 falls. One more and we would have a new human zamboni.

 

[Mathman]

Hey, Kwanford Wife! Good to see you back,

To TontoK: You nailed it. This is sport. I don't care what you did yesterday. I don't care what you are going to do tomorrow. Right here, right now!

That is why factored placements are better than carrying points over from the short program. In the present system you can back into the championship by riding a cushion. Boo -- that's not sport. With factored placements, right now you have to make the top three in the short program, then right now win the long.

 

[noidont]

This thread title is right on. I've long suspected that USFSA does not promote Asian American skaters after Kwan because it's rather difficult to find sponsors for them. American brands like white girls, and black is also great, anything is better than Asian American, which appeals to a much smaller demographic. This is not really racism, just number crunching from a market research firm. Someone like Mirai would have to be as good as Michelle Kwan to do okay commercially, but Gracie or Ashley don't, as they can easily get a Covergirl deal.

The hype around the Olympic Games isn't so much about winning medals, it's about selling stuff to as many people as possible. Sickening, but true. If it's been Rachael Flatt in Mirai's shoe, the storyline of an Olympian getting ditched for someone who didn't make it last time would be big. But then the money machine would have already been in the work way before this even happens.

 

[jsteam4501s]

Poor, poor Gracie Gold. Instead of being the bright new star and the rightful center of attention for putting together two wonderful performances, she is being overshadowed and shoved aside by a woefully stinky and assenine decision that will effectively cause a skater who gave arguably the worst performance ever by a skater bound for the Olympic Games, to be spotlighted by NBC's cameras.

One could hardly blame Gracie if she said to some lone reporter with no crowd watching, " Maybe I'd better get my gold medal home and lock it up before they take it away from me."

 

[GF2445]

It is still a sport but sport takes on many types. It just so haplens that figure skating goes under the banner of a subjective sport.

 

[kwanatic]

It is still a sport but sport takes on many types. It just so haplens that figure skating goes under the banner of a subjective sport.

Which is why so many people are reluctant to consider it an actual sport...hell, I've been following it since before I can remember and yet lately here I find myself being more and more turned-off by the results.

It's a popularity contest, a pageant of sorts. It's not necessarily based on how you did on that particular night, but what you did that night and several other nights a few months back. That's reputation scoring. It's why a top skater can fall several times and still win; the judges know what they can do and will reward them based on what they've done in the past rather than what they did in that particular competition.

It's also a sport that is dictated by the federations. It's just as easy to prop someone up as it is to hold them down. Just look at Agnes. She got dropped like a hot skillet this year at nationals whereas last nationals (despite falling in both programs) she ended up 3rd. Why? The judges were still holding out hope that she could deliver so they padded her PCS to keep her on the podium. This year they had Gracie coming out of her Frank Carroll transformation as well as Ashley, who had medaled all season long...and then little Polina jumps up on the scene. By that point there was no need to keep Agnes as a "placeholder" skater and she was dumped. If Ashley continues to go downhill, she's next...



It's not right but it's always been that way.

 

[ManyCairns]

Hey, Kwanford Wife! Good to see you back,

To TontoK: You nailed it. This is sport. I don't care what you did yesterday. I don't care what you are going to do tomorrow. Right here, right now!

That is why factored placements are better than carrying points over from the short program. In the present system you can back into the championship by riding a cushion. Boo -- that's not sport. With factored placements, right now you have to make the top three in the short program, then right now win the long.

I see it differently. I don't like factored placements at all. I have no problem with looking at the total competition without factored placements. I see the SP as a different test than the FS, at least in theory. The SP is supposed to demonstrate basic mastery of a skill set. FS offers the chance to highlight your strengths, plus it's a test of conditioning and stamina. I don't see a need to place the skaters in one phase and start all over again in the next. Total score across multiple phases has never hurt 3-Day Eventing, or taken away enthusiasm for any one phase.

If you really want that RIGHT NOW factor, just skate a FS/LP. Like when they got rid of heats in harness racing. Or treat the SP as a qualifier and only the top 6 even get to skate a long. But I don't understand the value of factored placements -- why include the first phase at all if you have to start over again the next phase?


That said, I am in complete agreement with Nationals being the only criterion for selecting World/Olympic teams. But I see that as a different question from/don't equate it at all with factored placements.

 

[caitie]

I mean... I get why people want to say a sport is a sport and the immediate results are the only things that should matter, but let's say Davis and White had choked at nationals. Say they were coming down with the flu but chose to skate for their 6th title and fell all over the ice and came in fourth. Should we not still send them? When Ian Thorpe had a false start at trials, the federation didn't hold to that disqualification; they sent him anyway and he won gold. Now Ashley isn't on their level as Olympic medal winners and reigning world champions, but I think most people recognize that sometimes exceptions need to be made, that there is a bigger picture than just one competition's results and who you send to a once-every-four-years competition probably deserves a longer look than just at one podium's standings. I don't think sending Mirai and Polina over Ashley would have made sense if you look at the larger picture of this season and the quad. We wouldn't have three spots if not for Ashley. She helped make a lot of $$ for the USFSA which in turn helps the skaters at WTT. IDK... I'm glad Ashley is going. It makes more sense to me than to have her stay home based on nationals results. I wish Mirai would have been scored higher than Polina though.

I wish the USFSA would do what Japan does and have more criteria for the second (and third when applicable) spots to make the selection process more transparent and less arbitrary feeling. And Mirai should be going to Worlds like Max and C&J!

 

[Taan]

Mirai Nagasu, Ashley Wagner and the Myth of the Golden Girl
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2014...shley-wagner-and-the-myth-of-the-golden-girl/

Wagner’s flowing blond hair, bellflower-blue eyes and sculpted features mark her as a sporting archetype: She’s the embodiment of the “golden girl” the media has extolled when they’ve waxed poetic about idealized ice queens of the past, from Norway’s Sonja Henie to East Germany’s Katarina Witt, a marketer’s dream who’s already signed up tent-pole sponsors like Nike, Pandora Jewelry and CoverGirl, which assessed her Teutonic beauty as being worthy of serving as one of their global “faces.”

 

[Mathman]

Ashley Wagner is the opposite of the stereotypical ice princess golden girl. She does not have "Teutonic beauty" at all. She's more in the tough cookie, kick 'em in the groin mold -- which, by the way, is the new ideal throughout all women's sports. Go Serena Williams!

 

[ice coverage]

Ashley Wagner is the opposite of the stereotypical ice princess golden girl. She does not have "Teutonic beauty" at all. She's more in the tough cookie, kick 'em in the groin mold -- which, by the way, is the new ideal throughout all women's sports. Go Serena Williams!

But Teutonic simply means "Germanic."

http://www.learnersdictionary.com/definition/teutonic​

So one could be both a Teutonic beauty AND a tough cookie, right?

[Leaving the question of Teutonic aside, I will say that I do find Wagner's beauty to be head-turning. And the non-Teutonic Serena Williams is another beautiful woman, on and off the court.]