The Judging Controversy Thread

[capcomeback]

As I recall the incident, this was in a phone call to Marina Anissina's mother, right? At the time it seemed like "The Taiwanese" (Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov) was just a small-time hood trying to cut himself in on the action and did not have any actual contacts or influence with anyone. (He had been accused in the past of minor drug dealing and, interestingly, of "conspiring to fix beauty pageants." ) IIRC the US wanted to catch him for other things (hence the wiretap), and saw the Olympic judging controversy as a way to put pressure on Italian authorities to hand him over. Instead, he sneaked off to Russia and nothing more came of it.

According to the story you linked to earlier in this thread, Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov has moved up the food chain in crime or the FBI is lying about the guy (which has never happened before right, lol). Regardless of whether he was a "real" player in all of this and that we'll never really know what happened, it certainly smells bad enough.

 

[usethis2]

Another tit bit in this scandal: In a thread now closed, Blades of Passion discovered the following:

Sotnikova was given a base value of 61.43, so if she was given +3 GOE on every element it would mean 22.8 extra points, putting her technical total at 84.23. Highest PCS possible for a female skater is 80, so the highest she could possibly be scored is 164.23 points.

One of the judges scored Sotnikova at 157.93 points.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...-2014-Sochi-LP&p=885637&viewfull=1#post885637

Everyone is entitled to her/his opinion on this fact.

 

[OS]

So in the interest of true ISU/IOC way, at the next PyeongChang Olympics 2018 I guess we will get a Korean Technical Controller, a Chinese and a Singaporean technical specialist. Nine judges from Korea, North Korea, China, Taipei, Hongkong, USA, Canada, France, Great Britain. Swap out for Brazil, Philippines, South Africa, and another Korean who officiate abroad like Thailand.

As long as they ensure one of the Korean skaters rank within top 9 at worlds over the next 4 years, no need to medal at major event. Make sure at least one or ideally two Korean judges accompany the anointed one to every single competitions through out the season to inflate her PCS and GOEs.

The annointed one will get the gold even if they falter while others world champions go perfect!! Sounds like a plan!

Oiiii!! KOC are you reading this?!! Be patient, you tooooo can still get the gold 'as long as you wait long enough' great tip straight from the Russian Grand Dame Tarasova.

 

[Meoima]

So in the interest of true ISU/IOC way, at the next PyeongChang Olympics 2018 I guess we will get a Korean Technical Controller, a Chinese and a Singaporean technical specialist. Nine judges from Korea, North Korea, China, Taipei, Hongkong, USA, Canada, France, Great Britain. Swap out for Brazil, Philippines, South Africa, and another Korean who officiate abroad like Thailand.

As long as they ensure one of the Korean skaters rank within top 9 at worlds over the next 4 years, no need to medal at major event. Make sure at least one or ideally two the Korean judges accompany the anointed one to every single competitions through out the season to inflate her PCS and GOEs.

The annointed one will get the gold even if they faltered while others world champions go perfect!! Sounds like a plan!

Oiiii!! KOC are you reading this?!! Be patient, you tooooo can still get the gold 'as long as you wait long enough' great tip straight from the Russian Grand Dame Tarasova.

Well, they need an equivalent of the infamous Godmother Tarasova. And I don't hope for that. Kinda scary. I hope for good skating (crying, to think that the horrendous men event at Sochi is, in fact, the fairest, along with the pair event) not for another political event again.

 

[bebevia]

Here's the latest on this character (January 26, 2014).

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/russi...ccused-olympic-judge-bribes/story?id=22233093

I honestly think he fled with name advantage: Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov? Just trying to figure out his name would've given him enough to get on the next overseas flight. Alla Shekhovtseva has a less complicated name, but she stayed in Russia, and her name was still enough to make a domestic flight.

 

[OS]

Summary of quotes on the controversy

http://www.scribd.com/doc/212801054/Quotes

 

[SkateToronto]

Summary of quotes on the controversy

http://www.scribd.com/doc/212801054/Quotes

Why didn't you include the quotes from anyone who said Adelina deserved her gold?

 

[OS]

Why didn't you include the quotes from anyone who said Adelina deserved her gold?

Feel free to add your own

 

[Anna K.]

Summary of quotes on the controversy

http://www.scribd.com/doc/212801054/Quotes

"Is that borscht because I smell some Russian homecooking"

 

[CarneAsada]

"Is that borscht because I smell some Russian homecooking"

I remember reading in the National Geographic about an old Russian woman living in Crimea who said "this is Russian borscht. The good kind, not the Ukrainian kind." After the quote the article said "Though ____ might disagree, borscht is Ukrainian. And though she might disagree, Crimea is as well." Makes me wonder if she's still alive to celebrate the recent events, as well as Sotnikova's gold.

 

[Anna K.]

...and jokes about race and nationality prove to be not funny in multi-cultural forums again

 

[CarneAsada]

I enjoy ruining good jokes with pedantry.

 

[capcomeback]

Why didn't you include the quotes from anyone who said Adelina deserved her gold?

Most of those quotes need to be translated from Russian.

Seriously, aside from Russians and several American commentators (Tara, Scott and Johnny) and Elvis Stoyko from Canada, very few people in the skating world have supported the results from the Ladies SP and/or FS. The folks following it on twitter were even predicting that there was "russiaflation" going on before Adelina even skated (following the marks that were given Julia). It's a shame. Adelina gave the skate of her life (up until now at least), but most experts seem to believe that it wasn't good enough for gold.

What drives me crazy are the NBC analysts. I'll give Johnny credit for at least stating that Adelina's component scores were "very generously scored"). After listening to Scott and Sandra explain to the audience after Adelina's performance that she was a "technical skater" and should receive very high marks for that, and nowhere near the artistic skater that Carolina Kostner was, they made no comment when Adelina's PCS was only about a point lower than her huge TES. With the benefit of slow motion, we can see the flutz and UR, that they claimed was fully rotated, so I won't fault them for that, but failing to comment on Adelina's surprisingly high PCS, was a failure on their part as analysts (especially when they chose to mention it before here score was posted).

My growing opinion is that regardless of whether people felt that Adelina should have won, virtually nobody (except for extremely partisan idiots) agreed with Adelina's score (especially on PCS).

 

[Anna K.]

My growing opinion is that regardless of whether people felt that Adelina should have won, virtually nobody (except for extremely partisan idiots) agreed with Adelina's score (especially on PCS).

How many people actually care about Olympic scores? I'd bet the most of them only care about medals

 

[pangtongfan]

How many people actually care about Olympic scores? I'd bet the most of them only care about medals

In a judged sport where points are given out everyone cares about the scores. People are still talking why Maroney's vault in team finals did not get a 10 or even close to it, even after U.S deservedly won team gold by about 5 falls worth of points over Russia.

 

[usethis2]

I've just looked at the protocol again (to check Mao's), and one judge gave Yuna following PCS.

8.50
7.75
8.75
8.25
8.75

In comparison there are at least 4 judges who gave Adelina 9.25~9.75 all around. Those judges are also the ones gave nearly indiscriminate +3 GOEs to her elements. (if the GOE column and PCS column correspond) It is an insanity.

 

[jaylee]

The GOE column and PCS columns do not correspond.

 

[capcomeback]

The GOE column and PCS columns do not correspond.

No, but it is reasonable supposition to extrapolate which judges who heaped love on Adelina were in both TES for GOE and the Component scores.

As I mentioned in another post, it was amazing to hear Scott H and Sandra B heap technical praise on Adelina but mildly damn her artistic/component ability as a skater in comparison to Carolina Kostner. Then fail to comment on it when Adleina's TES and PCS totals were practically identical (approximately a point apart). Also not to point out that they disagreed with the judges on PCS when they had just mentioned the gulf between the two skaters in this area (considering Adelina's scores were higher than Carolina in PCS).

It appears that a number of judges somewhat rightfully reward Adelina with high technical marks on some elements (based upon the Tech Panel's obvious drop of the ball on a few elements and a couple of judges being ridiculous with GOEs), but in addition to GOE inflation (and I don't believe all her jumps and all of her spins were "3" quality), people have a right to question the Component marks.

 

[Vanshilar]

How many people actually care about Olympic scores? I'd bet the most of them only care about medals

I'm still peeved at Nemov's horizontal bar scoring and re-scoring results at the 2004 Olympics. My then-gymnastics coach was peeved by it as well (and I assume still is).

 

[Anna K.]

How many people actually care about Olympic scores? I'd bet the most of them only care about medals

I obviously posted this in the wrong forum.