The Judging Controversy Thread
- Thread starter Andre Smith
- Start date
I don't even know if Plushenko would stand behind this travesty.
The Russian crowd at the stadium today, and Putin whose money bought the gold medal.
I understand your frustration and I don't want to come across as aggressive but the judging is not going to improve if instead of trying to pin point the problems in order to then try to find the solutions, everything will be blamed on 'corrupt judges.' It's a very easy answer. The big bad villain in the corner who is responsible for all the wrong results. The only reaction from the ISU establishment to that is going to be defensive, though. Furthermore it is a very serious allegation to make if you don't have any proof to back it up.
Reposting (plus editing/expanding a little a bit) from the Ladies SP thread:
The fact Sotnikova got PCS that high, higher than Kostner's and almost as high as Kim's is absolutely ridiculous. She has poor posture, carriage and lines, both of her programs had very little relation to the music in terms of style or character and her timing was mostly off. Her basic skating is pretty good but it's not great and it's not at the level of some of the other top skaters either.
Her technical elements were extremely impressive in both programs and a few quibbles aside, her high TES scores - in relation to the other skaters at least - were largely justified. But the PCS were not.
As compelling as the 'Russians bribed everybody' discourse is, cultural, social and psychological processes are usually more complex than that. I've been thinking about the possible reasons for the result going this way and the possible factors I could think of were:
Sotnikova genuinely skated well technically in both programs and bolstered by the huge support of the audience, the judges simply went with her on the PCS as well. Anchoring, plain and simple. An overall positive impression got carried over to all of the marks.
Secondly, not all of the judges had ballet or dance training and even if they did as skaters, they might not know much about it in terms of looking from the outside. So if a skater is totally off-time and/or their posture is weak, they might not even notice that.
Thirdly, if you ever try to judge a program in real time, you will notice that when the program is over, you have spent pretty much the entire time thinking about the GOE of the technical elements. The music finished and you probably don't even remember much about what happened in between. Which is why panels should be split into GOE and PCS judges, IMO.
A system for marking PCS still doesn't exist and the criteria are pretty vague. And time is very limited. So given all of these constraints, it's understandable the judges simply go with their gut feeling and don't give PCS marks much thought. How? When?
Finally, the looming shadow of the corridor means you are likely to mark how you expect the others to and will try to keep all of your marks 'in line' without obvious outliers.
Reposting (plus editing/expanding a little a bit) from the Ladies SP thread:
The fact Sotnikova got PCS that high, higher than Kostner's and almost as high as Kim's is absolutely ridiculous. She has poor posture, carriage and lines, both of her programs had very little relation to the music in terms of style or character and her timing was mostly off. Her basic skating is pretty good but it's not great and it's not at the level of some of the other top skaters either.
Her technical elements were extremely impressive in both programs and a few quibbles aside, her high TES scores - in relation to the other skaters at least - were largely justified. But the PCS were not.
As compelling as the 'Russians bribed everybody' discourse is, cultural, social and psychological processes are usually more complex than that. I've been thinking about the possible reasons for the result going this way and the possible factors I could think of were:
Sotnikova genuinely skated well technically in both programs and bolstered by the huge support of the audience, the judges simply went with her on the PCS as well. Anchoring, plain and simple. An overall positive impression got carried over to all of the marks.
Secondly, not all of the judges had ballet or dance training and even if they did as skaters, they might not know much about it in terms of looking from the outside. So if a skater is totally off-time and/or their posture is weak, they might not even notice that.
Thirdly, if you ever try to judge a program in real time, you will notice that when the program is over, you have spent pretty much the entire time thinking about the GOE of the technical elements. The music finished and you probably don't even remember much about what happened in between. Which is why panels should be split into GOE and PCS judges, IMO.
A system for marking PCS still doesn't exist and the criteria are pretty vague. And time is very limited. So given all of these constraints, it's understandable the judges simply go with their gut feeling and don't give PCS marks much thought. How? When?
Finally, the looming shadow of the corridor means you are likely to mark how you expect the others to and will try to keep all of your marks 'in line' without obvious outliers.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2012
It seems the FS fans started the fight again than in Vancouver after the men competition..
Although it's heartbreaking that some of the veterans were ripped off, I'm more, deeply, sad about how the Olympics are heading into. Olympics is losing its spirit. It has been turned from pure competition to money and politics. I had this feeling even before Yuna skated that even if she's clean, the best she'll receive is silver, and I was right. I was not happy, but I was not mad either because it was bound to happen. Russians will be happy, but I know the rest of the world knows who the real winner is, and it's not Adelina.
My heart today though, goes to Mao. Her tears at the end reminded me how difficult and stressful this sport can be. She did make mistakes in the SP, but her FS was delightful to watch, and she too, will be remembered as one of the "greats" in my minds. It was really nice to see her 3A getting ratified.
Yuna done what she can do best, and she delivered. If she's happy with her performance, I, too, will be happy.
My heart today though, goes to Mao. Her tears at the end reminded me how difficult and stressful this sport can be. She did make mistakes in the SP, but her FS was delightful to watch, and she too, will be remembered as one of the "greats" in my minds. It was really nice to see her 3A getting ratified.
Yuna done what she can do best, and she delivered. If she's happy with her performance, I, too, will be happy.
Christine Brennan says headline will be "Worse than Salt Lake 2002"
Christine Brennan writes figure skating for USA Today, and is a commentator on ABC and National Public Radio.
She tweeted:
"headline is that this is worse than Salt Lake City. Terrible decision."
Also she said Ashley Wagner made a statement, that she was speechless about the results and anonymous judging must be eliminated.
Christine Brennan writes figure skating for USA Today, and is a commentator on ABC and National Public Radio.
She tweeted:
"headline is that this is worse than Salt Lake City. Terrible decision."
Also she said Ashley Wagner made a statement, that she was speechless about the results and anonymous judging must be eliminated.
Don't forget Mao.
I haven't seen the skates yet and I just very may disagree with the judging itself/result....but I definitely don't agree with Adelina getting all this vitriol. She's a sweet girl and great person.
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
Scoring is the least of it.
Billions gone where during the construction
Undocumented disposal of hazardous/construction waste
Environmental damage to Sochi area
Unpaid foreign workers deported before being paid
Shoddy construction
Unfinished hotel rooms
Yellow water
LGBT forced back into the closet
Pussy Riot attacked by their own fellow Russians (who were hired as protection for the Games)
All protest relegated to areas miles away from the foreign press in Sochi
Audiences who have now given vivid new meanings to the words/phrases "partisan" and "unsportsman-like behavior"
Unfair scoring is the least of it.
Billions gone where during the construction
Undocumented disposal of hazardous/construction waste
Environmental damage to Sochi area
Unpaid foreign workers deported before being paid
Shoddy construction
Unfinished hotel rooms
Yellow water
LGBT forced back into the closet
Pussy Riot attacked by their own fellow Russians (who were hired as protection for the Games)
All protest relegated to areas miles away from the foreign press in Sochi
Audiences who have now given vivid new meanings to the words/phrases "partisan" and "unsportsman-like behavior"
Unfair scoring is the least of it.
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2013
YES, here I am! You can say anything, her programm was more difficult than Caro and Yuna. Yuna's spins were slow and,well, the programm was not particularly special. Caro, well, easier jumps, spins weaker, and,again, a might be one of the minority who hates her Bolero...
You go girl!
You go girl!
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
To me she earned it. She had a huge edge in BV, spin GOE, and overall TES. Adelina's PCS was high but she would have won with Caro's, Mao's or Julia's PCS also. Yuna never needed 7 triples because no one decent ever did that many before. Tonight someone did, with superior spins.
- Joined
- May 7, 2008
I would never blame a skater for bad judging, it's not their fault, but there has to be some accountability on this issue.
I agree. Adelina won on technical score. The judges are no less decent than viewers, or forumers.
BTW, COP was not invented by russians.
