wow, they drop the scores and yet judging still sucks this bad?
The Judging Controversy Thread
- Thread starter Andre Smith
- Start date
wow, they drop the scores and yet judging still sucks this bad?
Agreed. Screw anonymous judging.
And how about banning suspended judges from the judging panel? Especially for big events like the Olympics or Worlds.
Also, they should integrate the aspect of independence - no close relatives/connections of national Federations should be on the panel too.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2009
I think Kanako should take a break from skating competitively for two years at least (and practice in the mean time). Mao should only do shows. And Daisuke as well.
Yuzuru has a fan base in Japan but it will not be like how Mao and Daisuke could draw a crowd. Anyway, Yuzuru being Brian Orser's pupil, maybe Canada can kind of adopt him.
Then Japan won't be able to hold skating events with packed crowds, and then maybe the Skating Federations will lose interest in trying to play God, because they won't be able to make money any more. Oh, wait. I guess Putin must have paid the Feds enough to keep them financially viable for a year or two.
Yuzuru has a fan base in Japan but it will not be like how Mao and Daisuke could draw a crowd. Anyway, Yuzuru being Brian Orser's pupil, maybe Canada can kind of adopt him.
Then Japan won't be able to hold skating events with packed crowds, and then maybe the Skating Federations will lose interest in trying to play God, because they won't be able to make money any more. Oh, wait. I guess Putin must have paid the Feds enough to keep them financially viable for a year or two.
Thank you I signed it
:thumbsup:
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Environment affects behavior far more than most people would care to admit (heck, something as simple as seeing a backpack vs. a brief case in a room has been shown to affect behavior.) So I'm sure that hearing the cheers of the crowd resulting in judges perceiving the skate as better than it was.
And, I suspect that the fact that the crowds in Sochi were particularly partisan is a large reason why the hometown bias was far stronger here than in past competitions.
My sense is that we saw fairer judging in the men's event than in other disciplines, and that's probably because there were no Russians skating. Also, especially during the SP, most of the people who were there for Plushenko instead of for figure skating left, so there was a much higher proportion of people who actually appreciated figure skating.
I don't see an easy solution. In theory, it would be great if you could isolate the judges from the cheering crowds, but since the judges need to be there in person to assess things like speed and height of jumps, that's not really possible. Though I do like Ziggy's suggestion of having a separate panel judging PCS. That way, they would be paying attention to those components and be a little less likely to be subconsciously influenced by extraneous factors like the crowd.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2010
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
I'm not trying to start anything because I don't care who won the ladies program...
However, I find it funny that when it was ice dance, people complained because the "favorites" for gold took gold and the favorites for silver took silver. When that happened, people were in outrage because the "predetermined" favorites and rankings took what they were predicted to take. BUT, now that there's an upset in women's, people are mad because non-favorites got better scores and higher rankings than many "favorites."
- I get people's outrage....inflated and deflated scores everywhere. What's new? It's the Olympics. I'm not condoning what's taken place, but I also am not loving that I feel like people become so emotionally motivated due to their own favoritism that they're blinded by the possibility that maybe the medalists are in the right positions (regardless of potentially inflated or deflated scores)....but again, maybe they're not?
That being said, I agree that some smelly stuff has happened. I don't get how a corrupt judge was able to judge this event. I don't get how someone who has such strong close ties to Russia and skating was able to judge... It is b.s. without a doubt.
However, I don't agree that anyone was in with Russia on a fix. Personally, I think had Russia had a dance team or men's single they could've swindled into first place, they probably would've - after all, didn't you know? This is "Putin's Olympics."
However, I find it funny that when it was ice dance, people complained because the "favorites" for gold took gold and the favorites for silver took silver. When that happened, people were in outrage because the "predetermined" favorites and rankings took what they were predicted to take. BUT, now that there's an upset in women's, people are mad because non-favorites got better scores and higher rankings than many "favorites."
- I get people's outrage....inflated and deflated scores everywhere. What's new? It's the Olympics. I'm not condoning what's taken place, but I also am not loving that I feel like people become so emotionally motivated due to their own favoritism that they're blinded by the possibility that maybe the medalists are in the right positions (regardless of potentially inflated or deflated scores)....but again, maybe they're not?
That being said, I agree that some smelly stuff has happened. I don't get how a corrupt judge was able to judge this event. I don't get how someone who has such strong close ties to Russia and skating was able to judge... It is b.s. without a doubt.
However, I don't agree that anyone was in with Russia on a fix. Personally, I think had Russia had a dance team or men's single they could've swindled into first place, they probably would've - after all, didn't you know? This is "Putin's Olympics."
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2011
I agree with the conservative GOE on most jumps because there really were some scratchy landings (the 3-3 is an exception though). On the other hand, the < marks were undeserved, the PCS were laughable, and the GOEs on the spins and the step/choreo sequence were low. Granted, all of it was criminal in relation to Adelina; if she were to be scored fairly relative to Adelina she'd get straight 10s for PCS, no edge call, and +GOE on all her jumps.
I see your irony
I think most people aren't as upset about the actual placements as they are about the transparency when it comes to the scores. I think the call to action is more to demand accountability rather than to promote their own agenda when it comes to personal favorites. Alot of people don't disagree with the placements, it's just that there was a clear bias towards the Russians in the scores and people want to know how and why the judges came to that decision. As opposed to something like "I want to know why skater x didn't place over a skater that 'fill in the blank". I think most people are coming from the standpoint of " How are these scores justified for every skater involved in order to have the most fair and agreeable outcome"
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Here's the problem. Every judge is a member of and supported by his own national federation. (Not necessarily married to the chairman, but still.
) That means that the judge from, say, Finland, is part of the Finnish Olympic team just like the Finnish skaters are. It is the duty (it's right there in the by-laws) of the Finnish Figure Skating Federation to secure the most medals and the highest possible placements for Finnish skaters. So...What really needs to happen is the creation of an independent body of judges , like baseball has the Major League Umpires Association, etc. The problem is, judges don't get paid and there just aren't any with no national federation ties.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2010
A Russian lady became the heavy favorite for the ladies gold and every gold in Sochi the moment the Team Event complete with ridiculous Russian scores for every single performance completed. So the favorite did win. The only event they werent favored to win after the Team was the Dance and they would have probably bought them a gold there too except they remember what NBC did the last time they screwed over a North American in a 2 person event. Even Oldshenko was now the gold favorite ahead of Chan and Hanyu before his WD, thus missing out on his purchased 3rd Olympic Gold and 5th Olympic medal.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
I see your irony
I think most people aren't as upset about the actual placements as they are about the transparency when it comes to the scores. I think the call to action is more to demand accountability rather than to promote their own agenda when it comes to personal favorites. Alot of people don't disagree with the placements, it's just that there was a clear bias towards the Russians in the scores and people want to know how and why the judges came to that decision. As opposed to something like "I want to know why skater x didn't place over a skater that 'fill in the blank". I think most people are coming from the standpoint of " How are these scores justified for every skater involved in order to have the most fair and agreeable outcome"
Fair enough!
I see what you're saying. I think this Olympics had a lot of crazy scores tbh. With how things were scored (some so high), it makes me wonder how they're really going to be able to keep the current scoring process the same.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
Silver is the new Gold
I think this deserves a thread on it is own but probably the powers will be will stick in some obscure place but here goes. Conspiracy or whatever I can see that all the silver medallists at Sochi has reasonable and plausible grounds to be given gold. But it i a judged sport. I am not saying that this was a conspiracy because not all the judges were from one nationality or controlled by one nation in each event. However, objectively if you can be objective all four or five if you include team silver medallistis imho could be legitimate Oly champions. Kim, Chan and Virtue and Moir all could have been scored much higher in pcs (which affect or should affect their tes as transitions and such influence the Grades of Execution) and could have narowed the gap or even won OGM. Yes, it is a judge sport so there is room to support the Gold medallists of course but I am just saying look at these medallists and a good and reasonable argument can be made. As for S and K in pairs they skated crisply, cleanly and with far greater conviction, speed and flow than we have ever seen them . They didn't make an error unlike V and T and could have won gold. I am not saying this is scandalous but all four silver medallists were in the realm of reality and possibility or with in an acceptable range that they could have been deemed gold medallists. So we don't have to say conspiracy but within the scope of marks or scoring while it can be seen while they got silver it could be seen as gold too. Not a conspiracy but just a different viewpoint. I am not sure everythign is so evil and diabolical and unfair as everyone says. It happens in a judged activity.
I think this deserves a thread on it is own but probably the powers will be will stick in some obscure place but here goes. Conspiracy or whatever I can see that all the silver medallists at Sochi has reasonable and plausible grounds to be given gold. But it i a judged sport. I am not saying that this was a conspiracy because not all the judges were from one nationality or controlled by one nation in each event. However, objectively if you can be objective all four or five if you include team silver medallistis imho could be legitimate Oly champions. Kim, Chan and Virtue and Moir all could have been scored much higher in pcs (which affect or should affect their tes as transitions and such influence the Grades of Execution) and could have narowed the gap or even won OGM. Yes, it is a judge sport so there is room to support the Gold medallists of course but I am just saying look at these medallists and a good and reasonable argument can be made. As for S and K in pairs they skated crisply, cleanly and with far greater conviction, speed and flow than we have ever seen them . They didn't make an error unlike V and T and could have won gold. I am not saying this is scandalous but all four silver medallists were in the realm of reality and possibility or with in an acceptable range that they could have been deemed gold medallists. So we don't have to say conspiracy but within the scope of marks or scoring while it can be seen while they got silver it could be seen as gold too. Not a conspiracy but just a different viewpoint. I am not sure everythign is so evil and diabolical and unfair as everyone says. It happens in a judged activity.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
Valid point! But it wasn't the same Russian "favorite" who won...
Yup. The scores Russians received are unprecedented in many ways. Tech panel's transparent manipulation is also full on display.
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...-Sequence-Levels-on-Kim-Sotnikova-amp-Kostner
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...-Sequence-Levels-on-Kim-Sotnikova-amp-Kostner
Because Russian Federation dumped Yulia after her disastrous SP. But she was kept close enough for the podium just in case. In any case, had she not fallen in SP she might have been on the podium next to Adelina.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2014
Exactly! Many of the skaters in the women's competition got scores that seem too high as compared to their previous best score. The entire thing is ridiculous on that front. It makes me think though that the skating federations want/already know they're going to be implementing scoring changes. I feel like this is a very easy lead-in for just that....
