Wow, reading that article (http://mydearkorea.blogspot.ca/2014/02/sochi-figure-skating-scandal.html) I did not know Yuna received lower GOE than Adelina in the SP. Were judges insane?
The Judging Controversy Thread
- Thread starter Andre Smith
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2014
I was too lazy to post something until now, lol.
Out of those who strongly disagree with the placements, it seems that most of you believe the results were fixed. But isn't it possible that the judges simply made an error in judgment? After all, everyone makes mistakes from time to time...
Out of those who strongly disagree with the placements, it seems that most of you believe the results were fixed. But isn't it possible that the judges simply made an error in judgment? After all, everyone makes mistakes from time to time...
Because a Korean skated for Russia and won 3 gold and a bronze.
That's a lot of mistakes aligning together.
There are several reasons which I will summarize for you, Toxic, so you don't have to read the entire thread. I don't know if these are true, rumors, gossip, or whatever, but this is what people are saying.
1. The subjective scores went up a lot more for Russian skaters than others. The same program was getting a lot more for choreography and the music categories than before.
2. The Russian crowd was yelling and carrying on as they were reviewing Yuna's scores, perhaps intimidating the judges a bit to lowball her (my belief).
3. The Russian judge was banned for cheating years ago and came back.
4. Both the tech people were Russian, although one was pretending to be Finnish
5. Nitpick inequality as mentioned above, with the Russians benefitting
1. The subjective scores went up a lot more for Russian skaters than others. The same program was getting a lot more for choreography and the music categories than before.
2. The Russian crowd was yelling and carrying on as they were reviewing Yuna's scores, perhaps intimidating the judges a bit to lowball her (my belief).
3. The Russian judge was banned for cheating years ago and came back.
4. Both the tech people were Russian, although one was pretending to be Finnish
5. Nitpick inequality as mentioned above, with the Russians benefitting
After the team games scoring, after the SP scroing, and finally the FS scoring - I don't think anyone is under such delusion. Even those who defend the standings bring out "exigent" factors for inflated scores. (Adelina had the audience! She gave it all! She went for it! Putin spent 50 billions!)
Yulia received higher scores in individuals with 2 very flawed programs (generously speaking), more than what she got for her clean-ish programs in team games. She broke 200+ totals with 3 falls. Her PCS is higher than Mao's. Only the most deluded can NOT see the fix.
The tech team was sure to gig the US skaters Gold and Wagner for lipping and flutzing, but Sotnikova got NO edge calls for her Olympic FS. That's quite unusual, considering that over the past three seasons, for the 19 lutzes she's landed, she's received 16 edge calls. The occasions when she did not get an edge call were when the Technical controller or tech caller were (guess what) Russian.
So you are saying that every time a non-Russian tech panel scored, Adelina got an unfair edge call.
Not about every time (though close to every time she got "e" on her 3Lz), but this time she did not get the edge call, despite clear evidence to the contrary.
Same goes for her step sequences.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2009
I have and will continue to watch figure skating but I'll never believe the judges. They're on a payroll as are majority of tv commentators. I don't think I'm in the minority here. The world knows the judging is fake. Figure skating ought to be kicked off the Olympics because it's not a sport.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2010
Exactly. It is up to everyone to decide for themselves who are the best skaters (which is not always the same as who deserves to win competitions even if judging were completely fair). The judges have no value.
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2011
Ditto. That organization has done nothing to show that they take these allegations seriously. Quite the opposite. When the original rumours came out from L'Equipe they should have made darned sure that the judging was inscrutable. But no, the judging in the team competition was a complete farce, and it didn't get any better from there. Then they respond to the allegations from the ladies event with a dismissive PR statement. They don't give a crap.
I've said this before (not sure if anyone reads my posts!), but I think the corruption in this organization is systemic. If they support corruption and unfair practices (or at least look the other way) then no amount of little changes to the system are going to change that. There needs to be wholesale organizational change.
pangtongfan said:
Excellent ideas! And once they've gotten rid of all the corrupt old guard, there should be a demonstrated commitment to fairness in judging. No more tolerance for behind the scenes politiking, home-team bias, deliberate holding up of some skaters over others, and any other unfair practices. Perhaps they could replace the closed-door judges meetings with an open meeting with a representative council made up of judges, coaches, elected athlete representatives and other represenatives. Meetings could be public, and any athletes, coaches, or federation representatives could bring forward points for discussion. Maybe the IOC should also have a council to oversee fairness in judged sport.
Bravo post!
No doubt there are even good people in the higher echelons of skating who are just so used to the corruption they go along with it and think everyone else should to. "Part of the game" or whatever.
What skating needs is to completely clean house and get rid of all the cheaters. Heading into these Olympics, I was really hyped for the figure skating events, among others, and trying to get other people involved. Some of them argued that figure skating has judges so it's not a real sport, and my response was that other sports have referees who make subjective penalty calls, it's no different. Eventually, some people were willing to give figure skating a shot at these Olympics. Then the farce happened, and now unanimously they all think figure skating is a total joke. A complete and total joke.
Nobody cares about this sport because it's corrupt. I used to think it was because of a lack of stars. Some people thought it was because of the decline in artistry during CoP. Lots of different reasons.
The real reason nobody cares is because of the corruption and cheating, no accountability. They all go "lol figure skating, what the hell do you expect?'
It's not only the top skaters involved with this corrupt judging system. What about the skaters in the first two groups to skate? They are lost in the shuffle and forgotten about. They haven't got a snowballs chance in hell to get the higher marks to get to the top, no matter how good they are.
ISU COMMUNICATION #1821
ISU Communication #1821 shows the entries/participation of single, pair skating and ice dance qualified entries based on the results of last season’s world championships. The communication also stipulates which member countries may send judges according to a draw held at the Nelbelhorn Trophy in September 2013. The panels of judges for the Team Event will consist of maximum 9 ISU Judges per segment of different ISU members. Only Judges who are also drawn and present on site of the OWG to judge the individual OWG competitions shall officiate in the Figure Skating Team Event. Judges from the Team Event were drawn from the same pool as for the individual OWG competition, meaning that the draw was not limited to a pool of Judges from those Members who had qualified for the Team Event.
PAIRS and ICE DANCE– 9 Judges out of the 13 Judges are drawn for the Pairs/Dance Panels
MEN – 5 Judges out of the 9 Judges are drawn from the Men panel plus 4 judges out of the 9 Judges from the Pair Panel compose the Men Panel.
LADIES - 5 Judges out of the 9 Judges are drawn from the Ladies panel plus 4 judges out of the 9 Judges from the Pair Panel compose the Ladies Panel
AUS 1 Judge in Ice Dance and 1 judge in Ice Dance Team Event (Total 1)
AUT 1 judge in Men (Total 1)
AZE 1 judge in Ice Dance (Total 1)
BEL 1 judge in Men (Total 1)
BUL 1 judge in Pairs and 1 judge in Pairs Team Event & Men Team Event (Total 1)
CAN 1 judge in Ladies, Paris, & Dance & in Men & Pairs Team Event (Total 3)
CHN 1 judge in Men, Pairs and Ice Dance, & 1 judge in Ladies, Pairs & Dance team Event (Total 3)
CZE 1 judge in Men (Total 1)
EST 1 judge in Ladies, Men & Pairs, & 1 judge in Ladies & Pairs Team Event (Total 3)
FRA 1 judge in Men, Ladies, Pairs, Ice Dance (Total 4)
GBR 1 judge in Ladies, Pairs & Ice Dance & all 4 team events (Total 3)
ISR 1 judge in Pairs & in Ladies, Pairs Team Event (Total 1)
ITA 1 judge in Ladies, Pairs & Dance & 1 in Dance Team Event (Total 3)
JPN 1 judge In Ladies, Men & Dance & Ladies, Men, Dance Team Event (Total 3)
KOR 1 judge in Ladies (Total 1)
LTU 1 judge in Ice Dance & in Dance Team Event (Total 1)
POL 1 judge in Pairs (Total 1)
RUS I judge each in Ladies, Men, Pairs & Dance and team events (Total 4)
SVK 1 judge in Ladies (Total 1)
ESP 1 judge in Men (Total 1)
SWE 1 judge in Ladies & Men and Ladies/Men Team Events (Total 2)
UKR 1 judge in Ladies, Pairs, Ice Dance & Ladies, Pairs, Ice Dance Team event (Total 3)
USA 1 judge in Ladies, Men, Pairs & Dance & 1 judge in Pairs and Dance Team Event (Total 4)
UZB 1 judge in Men & in Men Team event (Total 1)
Each Federation Member PICKS a judge for each of their slotted event(s).
The panel for each event is drawn from the list of judges available for that event 30 minutes prior to each event.
(Note: In Ice Dance, none of the members of the Tech Panel were from Member Countries that had skaters who placed in the top 5 at the previous World Championships.)
ISU Communication #1821 shows the entries/participation of single, pair skating and ice dance qualified entries based on the results of last season’s world championships. The communication also stipulates which member countries may send judges according to a draw held at the Nelbelhorn Trophy in September 2013. The panels of judges for the Team Event will consist of maximum 9 ISU Judges per segment of different ISU members. Only Judges who are also drawn and present on site of the OWG to judge the individual OWG competitions shall officiate in the Figure Skating Team Event. Judges from the Team Event were drawn from the same pool as for the individual OWG competition, meaning that the draw was not limited to a pool of Judges from those Members who had qualified for the Team Event.
PAIRS and ICE DANCE– 9 Judges out of the 13 Judges are drawn for the Pairs/Dance Panels
MEN – 5 Judges out of the 9 Judges are drawn from the Men panel plus 4 judges out of the 9 Judges from the Pair Panel compose the Men Panel.
LADIES - 5 Judges out of the 9 Judges are drawn from the Ladies panel plus 4 judges out of the 9 Judges from the Pair Panel compose the Ladies Panel
AUS 1 Judge in Ice Dance and 1 judge in Ice Dance Team Event (Total 1)
AUT 1 judge in Men (Total 1)
AZE 1 judge in Ice Dance (Total 1)
BEL 1 judge in Men (Total 1)
BUL 1 judge in Pairs and 1 judge in Pairs Team Event & Men Team Event (Total 1)
CAN 1 judge in Ladies, Paris, & Dance & in Men & Pairs Team Event (Total 3)
CHN 1 judge in Men, Pairs and Ice Dance, & 1 judge in Ladies, Pairs & Dance team Event (Total 3)
CZE 1 judge in Men (Total 1)
EST 1 judge in Ladies, Men & Pairs, & 1 judge in Ladies & Pairs Team Event (Total 3)
FRA 1 judge in Men, Ladies, Pairs, Ice Dance (Total 4)
GBR 1 judge in Ladies, Pairs & Ice Dance & all 4 team events (Total 3)
ISR 1 judge in Pairs & in Ladies, Pairs Team Event (Total 1)
ITA 1 judge in Ladies, Pairs & Dance & 1 in Dance Team Event (Total 3)
JPN 1 judge In Ladies, Men & Dance & Ladies, Men, Dance Team Event (Total 3)
KOR 1 judge in Ladies (Total 1)
LTU 1 judge in Ice Dance & in Dance Team Event (Total 1)
POL 1 judge in Pairs (Total 1)
RUS I judge each in Ladies, Men, Pairs & Dance and team events (Total 4)
SVK 1 judge in Ladies (Total 1)
ESP 1 judge in Men (Total 1)
SWE 1 judge in Ladies & Men and Ladies/Men Team Events (Total 2)
UKR 1 judge in Ladies, Pairs, Ice Dance & Ladies, Pairs, Ice Dance Team event (Total 3)
USA 1 judge in Ladies, Men, Pairs & Dance & 1 judge in Pairs and Dance Team Event (Total 4)
UZB 1 judge in Men & in Men Team event (Total 1)
Each Federation Member PICKS a judge for each of their slotted event(s).
The panel for each event is drawn from the list of judges available for that event 30 minutes prior to each event.
(Note: In Ice Dance, none of the members of the Tech Panel were from Member Countries that had skaters who placed in the top 5 at the previous World Championships.)
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2010
All great suggestions. Another I would have is judges are required to attend press conferences and directly answer the media and their questions.
This I did not know. Sigh.
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2011
Thank you! I've enjoyed reading your posts as well
I was thinking the same thing. Either that or they're afraid of the consequences of speaking up. If you want to stay involved in the sport you'd better play along. Skating could really use someone like Beckie Scott - an athlete who was willing to speak up and fight against cheating in her sport. But nobody is going to do that, because if they do they'll just be branded a sore loser and will be on the wrong side of the rigged judging in the future.
I'm starting to think that the IOC needs to have more oversight of judged sports at the Olympics. They have a representative judge swear to judge fairly at the opening ceremonies and then what? It's up to the individual sport governing bodies to make sure that's carried out? They're diligent about doping. They even got involved in things like the Beijing 2008 gymnastics age controversy.
