Christina Gao writes for the Harvard Crimson about her thoughts on the judging: http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2014/2/26/on-thin-ice/
The Judging Controversy Thread
- Thread starter Andre Smith
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Interesting read. I also read the NYT article "Adelina Sotnikova's Upset Victory is Hard to Figure". An interesting point made by the writer:
"The governing body, with its judging ranks tarnished by questionable officials and its scoring system favoring math whizzes over artists, is killing its own sport."
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- Feb 17, 2010
The point of the whole thing, over 30 pages, was that between 6 and 7 judges likely favored Adelina. Not 2. That debunks any myth that fewer than 4 judges could have favored her, and that the number is very likely 7 statistically. By statistically, I mean statistical likelihood.
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This is not a contest weighing the likelihood of 6-7 versus 2 versus 4.
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- Feb 17, 2010
No but there's a lot of myth debunking to do here. You accept most judges favored Adelina but many others don't.
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Her programs in Sochi or as skaters in general?
Hmm... Everybody is talking that a judge hugging winner is not a right thing (especially when was suspected by home cooking) and giving explanation to you..
Okay. For you I can say it. Trust but verify.
In my case suspect then verify, but who cares?
International Skating Union should Open Investigation into Judging right now.
The qualities that count for PCS. I just don't see how Adelina is 7 points better than Gracie.
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Gracie would have been closer had (a) she not fallen and (b) they were in a neutral geographic area where there wasn't home cooking. The whole season I think Adelina has been getting better marks than Gracie though. Adelina's programs, aside from the technical elements, are very intricate and difficult, although apparently not everyone's cup of tea choreographically. Gracie probably does not have as much going on between the elements.
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I don't understand the mentality of posters who can use 'home cooking' as a legitimate reason to explain away strange scores. That's like saying 'If Usain Bolt runs 9.58 in Jamaica, it should be counted as 9.40, but if he runs in Russia, then it should be counted as 9.70, and that's okay, because that's how 'home cooking' works in this sport.'
'Home cooking' is a way the judges cheat, for chrissake!! Are you blind to that?
Christina Gao's take:
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2014/2/26/on-thin-ice/
She carefully avoids siding with either.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2014/2/26/on-thin-ice/
She carefully avoids siding with either.
I don't think drivingmissdaisy was saying it is okay.. nobody is endorsing of it but simply acknowledging that it exists and that thus we have to take the scores with a grain of salt.
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4 out of 9 does not consistute "most"
Gracie most definitely has transitions and intricacy in her program. She and Adelina never faced off at a competition this season prior to the Olympics, but Gracie beat her at 2013 Worlds and 2013 World Team Trophy.
Gracie had a sluggish GP, but got into shape by Nationals, and her PCS has been increasing with consistency (she was lowballed in the team event). I certainly think Gracie is competitive and will continue to be competitive with Adelina in the future, and the margin that separated them at the Olympics will narrow considerably, if not disappear.
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- Aug 8, 2009
So cheating = home cooking exists. I'm glad we agree. I'm glad drivingmissdaisy agrees cheating exists. So the question is, why would anyone be crazy enough to want to legitimate cheating?
Of course scores based on judges cheating have to be taken with a grian of salt. It's a lie, after all.
I feel like something that hasn't really been brought up was Adelina's enthusiasm and Yuna's seeming lack thereof and how that affected the judging. But should it have? I don't think so.
Adelina's skated great and she skated a mostly clean program and it was during the Olympics. She emoted her pleasure after each successful element and at the end of her long program. The home crowd went crazy and judges would have difficulty not letting this affect her score, particularly her PCS. At one point she waved to the judges (I'm not sure if that was part of her choreography because I had not seen her skate this season, but I am sure that is true for many of you as well. Did the judges wave back as if she was a Von Trapp child, we will never know. 9.5-9.75 PCS. Sorry for the digression)
Now to Yuna:
Yuna seemingly did not show much much enthusiasm during or after her skate. If she had, would the judges have thought better of her program or been more impressed by someone they thought was really in the moment? If Yuna showed as much enthusiasm as Adelina did, would the judges or even us fans think she was acting? Quite possibly. Yuna, at this stage of her career, would not act that way after a clean program. Why? Because she has been clean more often than not in the long program in major international competition over the last four years (which is astounding btw) which means it is just a day at the office.
Could Adelina's enthusiasm only help her score? Absolutely. Can Yuna's apparent apathy only hurt her score? Absolutely. Should it? Absolutely not. Why? Because singles figure skating is basically a splatfest, and this includes every skater not named Yuna Kim. So, judges shouldn't hold it against that she can't get excited about every perfectly executed jump or every clean program she does. That would be holding her self- confidence against her which is what I believe occurred in Sochi.
Adelina's skated great and she skated a mostly clean program and it was during the Olympics. She emoted her pleasure after each successful element and at the end of her long program. The home crowd went crazy and judges would have difficulty not letting this affect her score, particularly her PCS. At one point she waved to the judges (I'm not sure if that was part of her choreography because I had not seen her skate this season, but I am sure that is true for many of you as well. Did the judges wave back as if she was a Von Trapp child, we will never know. 9.5-9.75 PCS. Sorry for the digression)
Now to Yuna:
Yuna seemingly did not show much much enthusiasm during or after her skate. If she had, would the judges have thought better of her program or been more impressed by someone they thought was really in the moment? If Yuna showed as much enthusiasm as Adelina did, would the judges or even us fans think she was acting? Quite possibly. Yuna, at this stage of her career, would not act that way after a clean program. Why? Because she has been clean more often than not in the long program in major international competition over the last four years (which is astounding btw) which means it is just a day at the office.
Could Adelina's enthusiasm only help her score? Absolutely. Can Yuna's apparent apathy only hurt her score? Absolutely. Should it? Absolutely not. Why? Because singles figure skating is basically a splatfest, and this includes every skater not named Yuna Kim. So, judges shouldn't hold it against that she can't get excited about every perfectly executed jump or every clean program she does. That would be holding her self- confidence against her which is what I believe occurred in Sochi.
Interesting point. I reckon Yuna tends to not show her emotions until after she finishes the program. Over-excitement during the program can cause loss of concentration - and you really don't want that, especially if you have a few elements to go. Her choice of LP music for this season was to display maturity and with a song that is meant to be dedicated to a late father, it would be inappropriate to show as much energy and happy emotions as Adelina did.
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Wow, are you guys still talking?
Guys, guys, guys, wait a minute! You see, you are saying the Russians screwed Yuna, right? In fact, it was EXACTLY OPPOSITE! Yuna should be thankful to the Russians, because they actually did Yuna a huge favor!
You see, if the Russian media hadn't screwed up Lipnitskaya, then Yulia would have had two clean performances, just like in the Teams, and Yuna would have had not the 2nd place, but 3rd!!! lol
So she should be very very thankful to the Russians. They helped her a lot!! lol
Guys, guys, guys, wait a minute! You see, you are saying the Russians screwed Yuna, right? In fact, it was EXACTLY OPPOSITE! Yuna should be thankful to the Russians, because they actually did Yuna a huge favor!
You see, if the Russian media hadn't screwed up Lipnitskaya, then Yulia would have had two clean performances, just like in the Teams, and Yuna would have had not the 2nd place, but 3rd!!! lol
So she should be very very thankful to the Russians. They helped her a lot!! lol
