The Judging Controversy Thread
- Thread starter Andre Smith
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I find ALL I-spins ugly but if you have to do it, achieving a completely vertical body line, in my opinion, is more aesthetically pleasing, then a sort-of Y spin where skaters try to do an I-spin but it's clear they don't have the flexibility to achieve a complete I-line.And to my taste, contortionist gymnastic positions are not pleasing at all. Frankly I would watch Yuna or Mao do the I-spin any day over Yulia, just because their sophisticated figures make it very pleasing to the eye, even without the crazy extension. Yulia's spin is all about sheer flexibility, whereas the camel spin Yuna does requires insane balance on the blade. Since this is figure skating and not gymnastics, I'll take the latter any day.
To people who say that Sot or Lip's program are technically stronger than Yuna’s, please read this : http://jwong224.blogspot.kr/
For those who argued that Adelina’s programs are technically stronger than Yuna’s, score analysis shows that the combined BV of her programs are only 2.94 points higher than Yuna’s. This gap includes the inexplicable downgrades of Yuna’s step sequence elements from level 4 to level 3 by the Russian technical controller in both of her programs. These downgrades caused her BV to be reduced by a total of 1.2 points. The gap could have been reduced to at most 1.74 points without even needing to go into another argument about how Adelina's step sequences were all graded level 4 though they were obvious inferior to Yuna’s.
For those who argued that Adelina’s programs are technically stronger than Yuna’s, score analysis shows that the combined BV of her programs are only 2.94 points higher than Yuna’s. This gap includes the inexplicable downgrades of Yuna’s step sequence elements from level 4 to level 3 by the Russian technical controller in both of her programs. These downgrades caused her BV to be reduced by a total of 1.2 points. The gap could have been reduced to at most 1.74 points without even needing to go into another argument about how Adelina's step sequences were all graded level 4 though they were obvious inferior to Yuna’s.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
Who is saying this about the programs? Could you possibly repost an example. I think Yuna's program was exquisite btw
In this : http://jwong224.blogspot.kr/
As for the free skate, Yuna skated to a tango piece "Adios Nonino". This program is very challenging because it requires many movements and diverse emotions with no rest point in any part of the program in order keep up with the fast tempo of the music. Her performance was again flawless and phenomenal. It looks effortless though it is very difficult and energy demanding. On the other hand, Adelina had several obvious mistakes such as a two-foot landing and a step-out during a combination jump. She also had a wrong entry into her first jumping pass, the triple lutz-triple toe, which the mistake is commonly referred as the “wrong edge”. Surprisingly, the Russian technical controller did not address this mistake and no point was deducted as a result. Nevertheless, Adelina's GOE is almost 2 points higher than Yuna’s while the PCS again puts them in a virtual tie. Some argued that Adelina brought a lot of energy on the ice and had great connection with the audience. However, waving to the audience and to the judges during the program should not contribute to adding any points to the artistry score.
One of the major differences between these two skaters is that Yuna makes her difficult program looks effortless while Adelina obviously makes hers looks exhausting. Besides, Yuna has demonstrated that her quality of skating, jumping technique, poise and elegance are a class of her own. She is a complete skater with rare qualities which many skating fans have nicknamed her “Queen Yuna“. Also, she is already considered as a figure skating legend at the time when she won the gold at the last Vancouver Olympics in 2010. In general, Adelina is a great skater with a lot of potential. She skated very well and delivered two brilliant programs to her home crowd at Sochi. However, the executions of her performances show she is not in the same caliber as Yuna. Skating legends such as Kurt Browning (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHrgxY7S-Bo) and Katarina Witt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV4sfY2ou_I) have already explained their differences very professionally which you could review them by following the links.
Without going into the argument whether Yuna Kim was underscored in both her Short Program and Free Skate, it is clear that Adelina Sotnikova was extremely over scored. Though figure skating is a subjective sport, the results are completely outrageous. Sonia Bianchetti Garbato, a former Olympic figure skating judge and a top-ranked skating official, has described the judging at the ladies’ event as “disgraceful and again an embarrassment for the sport”. She pointed out that “In no way could Adelina Sotnikova be placed ahead of Yuna Kim and perhaps also Carolina Kostner.” Sonia clearly stated that “no fair judge with a minimum of competence on how to evaluate the Program Components could have awarded to Adelina higher marks in choreography, performance/execution, and interpretation of music.” Her analysis regarding the judging scandal can be viewed in the following link: http://www.soniabianchetti.com/writings_sochi2014.html.
As for the free skate, Yuna skated to a tango piece "Adios Nonino". This program is very challenging because it requires many movements and diverse emotions with no rest point in any part of the program in order keep up with the fast tempo of the music. Her performance was again flawless and phenomenal. It looks effortless though it is very difficult and energy demanding. On the other hand, Adelina had several obvious mistakes such as a two-foot landing and a step-out during a combination jump. She also had a wrong entry into her first jumping pass, the triple lutz-triple toe, which the mistake is commonly referred as the “wrong edge”. Surprisingly, the Russian technical controller did not address this mistake and no point was deducted as a result. Nevertheless, Adelina's GOE is almost 2 points higher than Yuna’s while the PCS again puts them in a virtual tie. Some argued that Adelina brought a lot of energy on the ice and had great connection with the audience. However, waving to the audience and to the judges during the program should not contribute to adding any points to the artistry score.
One of the major differences between these two skaters is that Yuna makes her difficult program looks effortless while Adelina obviously makes hers looks exhausting. Besides, Yuna has demonstrated that her quality of skating, jumping technique, poise and elegance are a class of her own. She is a complete skater with rare qualities which many skating fans have nicknamed her “Queen Yuna“. Also, she is already considered as a figure skating legend at the time when she won the gold at the last Vancouver Olympics in 2010. In general, Adelina is a great skater with a lot of potential. She skated very well and delivered two brilliant programs to her home crowd at Sochi. However, the executions of her performances show she is not in the same caliber as Yuna. Skating legends such as Kurt Browning (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHrgxY7S-Bo) and Katarina Witt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV4sfY2ou_I) have already explained their differences very professionally which you could review them by following the links.
Without going into the argument whether Yuna Kim was underscored in both her Short Program and Free Skate, it is clear that Adelina Sotnikova was extremely over scored. Though figure skating is a subjective sport, the results are completely outrageous. Sonia Bianchetti Garbato, a former Olympic figure skating judge and a top-ranked skating official, has described the judging at the ladies’ event as “disgraceful and again an embarrassment for the sport”. She pointed out that “In no way could Adelina Sotnikova be placed ahead of Yuna Kim and perhaps also Carolina Kostner.” Sonia clearly stated that “no fair judge with a minimum of competence on how to evaluate the Program Components could have awarded to Adelina higher marks in choreography, performance/execution, and interpretation of music.” Her analysis regarding the judging scandal can be viewed in the following link: http://www.soniabianchetti.com/writings_sochi2014.html.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
I meant..who was saying that Yuna's programs are inferior? You started off by saying for those of you claiming Sot and Lip had technically stronger programs. Can you please post who is saying that? Jwong is too one sided for me sorry. The truth is somewhere in the middle of that opinion piece/blog IMHO. I prefer fair analysis.....just like my judging.
The whole being a legend part made me
l so thanks for that. 
The whole being a legend part made me
l so thanks for that. What is one sided? She is Canadian figureskating blogger. even if JoannaWong isn't famous sports columnist, she said objectively.
The gap at most i.44 or 1.74 points could be no problem, if judges would give right GOE points of Sot's Flutz, two-feet landing, under-rotated 3toe
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
1)
She just basically disqualified herself. That is choreography and worthy of points to the PCS. While I agree its silly choreo its no more silly than Caro's wiggling hips or Plushenko mean mugging is it. Not my thing but choreo non the less.
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She just basically disqualified herself. That is choreography and worthy of points to the PCS. While I agree its silly choreo its no more silly than Caro's wiggling hips or Plushenko mean mugging is it. Not my thing but choreo non the less.
2)
one sided OPINION
3)
Using her own logic please explain how this is reflected in the PCS. I've never seen a exhausting looking program deduction.
4)
Kinda shows bias. I'm inclined to agree here as a fan of Kim Yuna but it seems silly to put that into a "fair" statement. She really never shows Adelina the same respect exactly. Maybe a forced "well she skated her programs well at home" kinda thing. But she's not a legend or worthy of equal consideration.
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- Dec 29, 2013
^while I agree!! It can't be reflected in the scores this way really. They all still have to perform. I mean legends are beatable. I just don't dig on opinions that cloud and undermine the facts. Is that a more fair way to say it. I personally score the whole thing as a toss up. I can see three victory stories. I just don't think that is a ridiculous thing to say.
2) one sided OPINION[/QUOTE]
In your theory, all is one sided. but many legendary figure skating members like DickButton, Sonia Bianchetti, Kurt Browning, Katarina Witt, Robin Cousins, Boitano and many judges and tech panels http://www.insideskating.net/2014/0...-people-deserve-to-know-if-a-mistake-was-made say Sochi judging Scandal
In your theory, all is one sided. but many legendary figure skating members like DickButton, Sonia Bianchetti, Kurt Browning, Katarina Witt, Robin Cousins, Boitano and many judges and tech panels http://www.insideskating.net/2014/0...-people-deserve-to-know-if-a-mistake-was-made say Sochi judging Scandal
I have to say I am slightly disappointed because you chose not to answer my main points, intentionally or not.
I have given that Yulia's upright spins are superior to Yuna's. She is faster (more RPM as you say), does more revolutions, and does Biellmann which Yuna no longer does. Those are things that I have already conceded in my previous posts. And by your own admission, one could say Yuna's unique camel and Yulia's unique Biellmann are a wash depending on the beholders.
Then you simply avoided my main contention only to repeat what we already agree on. (with so many words.. ) I don't presume to know why, but I won't pursue your opinion on this topic any further.
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- Mar 26, 2014
Sorry, but I have little to say. The first 2 rotation series in SP I already compared. I see no Yuns's advantages in the camel - both of them perform quite well - but it is standard. I understand, that your main question related to the third series of SP (I might later compare side by side their FS rotations). Well, I see better stretch in the sit position for Yulia, very convincing broken-leg spin, higher speed, and no off-balance. The only her drawback was the off-center move. But it only started with the i-spin. I could assume that the reason is the very high speed of rotation (well above 2 per second, I guess) which is much more difficult to control than all other spins. And in the world she sort of overcame this.
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- Dec 29, 2013
Look, I'm not saying Adelina should have won or anything along those lines. I was simply under the impression that you were claiming that me or some fellow posters had been claiming that Adelina and Yulia had technically more impressive programs. You can see why when you look at your post below.
So I was merely trying to figure out who was saying that Yuna's program wasn't as difficult. Somehow you got me disputing some blog when I was instead trying to discuss the judging and ways to address and improve it. To be clear....Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Right or wrong when people say things like "embarrassing" and "outrageous" then I tend to tune them out and instead look for a more reasonable source that isn't so over the top. I really don't see anything offensive by that. That is my one sided opinion.
The only reason I even started posting over here again was because I kept seeing posts go by on the "what's new section" which shows all new posts. Some of them were making quite outlandish claims against Putin and using completely baseless claims against him and Russians. I also noticed Yulia's spins were being brought in which is something I'm quite familiar with. Some days I am much more irritable than others...,I was quite irritable yesterday and apologize if I've upset you in any way. Sorry.
I know difference between You & I, as I knows about figure skating
technical difficulties is not BV, but real execution
accoridng to technical score,Sotnikova's long program's BV is difficult than Yuna Kim. But she didn't do it well. - Unstable landing(Two-feet landing), Flutz jump(cheating lutz jump by using inside edge(must be judged Wrong edge), Under-rotation, step-level..
Then Yuna Kim's short program was more difficult than Sotnikova . And the score was almost same. How do you explain this based on your 'difficult program' theory? Yuna Kim didn't make a mistake. (long&short program) And what about Mao Asada? She did 3A and triple combo in her FS) Should she won the free program? No,
Figure skating is not Jumping competetion. In terms of jumps, the russian's technic is coarse though.
The one thing you have to know is that a lot of successive gold medalist won the competition without many jumps than silver medalist. The Important thing is not the quantity but the quality of jump!
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- Dec 29, 2013
PHP:
Gee, maybe you should write your own rulebook and decide which things would be important in your brand new sport.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
Fabricated articles from New York Times
This articles was fabricated and manipulated to justify the victory of Sotnikova over Yuna Kim. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/02/20/sports/olympics/womens-figure-skating.html
However, the article is flawed in several ways.
1. Their comparison of base value should not be including Goe.
2. They distorted the composition picture to make Sotnikova a better skater.
3. They don't discuss other technical aspects such as wrong edges, under-rotation, two-footed landing, transitions, step sequence, ice coverage, choreography, interpretation, and etc.
If you're curious about composite images, please see these videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhWmXsE2k1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBiKiV60ja8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOXQWv0nCaY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVvRd4WSVRQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDpmXzsLo_w
What do you guys think of this? Why would NYT as well as NBC do such a fraudulent things like this?
This articles was fabricated and manipulated to justify the victory of Sotnikova over Yuna Kim. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/02/20/sports/olympics/womens-figure-skating.html
However, the article is flawed in several ways.
1. Their comparison of base value should not be including Goe.
2. They distorted the composition picture to make Sotnikova a better skater.
3. They don't discuss other technical aspects such as wrong edges, under-rotation, two-footed landing, transitions, step sequence, ice coverage, choreography, interpretation, and etc.
If you're curious about composite images, please see these videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhWmXsE2k1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBiKiV60ja8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOXQWv0nCaY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVvRd4WSVRQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDpmXzsLo_w
What do you guys think of this? Why would NYT as well as NBC do such a fraudulent things like this?
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- Dec 29, 2013
We really needed a thread where we can discuss Adelina vs Yuna. It is what GS has been lacking. :disapp:
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2014
