The nuts and bolts of skating: What does it really cost to skate?

[Nigel]

While perusing a number of threads both here on GS and over at FSU, with fans expectations/hopes/dreams of seeing changes (ie addressing a broad variety of changes, from new coaches, to fixing techniques, to working with sports psychs to help with the gitters, to new costumes/music/programs) in their favorite teams/skaters, it got me to wondering if we, as casual or uber fans, understand what it costs for a skater and their family to go down the road of competitive ice skating. Some federations support their teams/skaters at a fairly low level and others at much higher levels (Japanese for instance), and as a result, the families absorb a huge % of the costs. Patrick Chan's family organizes fund raising events in Canada to help support the costs of his training for instance.

I realize that over the years there have been a few attempts to address some of the costs on the discussion boards, but have any of the federations ever produced some sort of guideline on what "reasonable" costs would be over the years of skating, ie...Learn to Skate, beginner with a couple of private lessons a week, to perhaps a competitor at the beginning levels of USFS doing regional/sectional and then maybe Jr National events; then on to the higher levels....novice/jr/sr....then to the upper echelon of skating...the international circuits, including JGP and SGP/Sr championship levels. Trying to keep all of this in perspective, with the world economy what it is, and no big ray of sunshine expected anytime soon (not trying to be a downer Dan here on the status of the world economy)...but, with $$ being pretty tight these days, and families adjusting their financial priorities, do coaches really expect to have a skater do 1-2 lessons a day with them? Can skaters really afford to get new programs/new costumes every season? I suspect that the fans/judges will want to see something new each season, but can the families afford to keep their kids in the sport? I can recall of skaters leaving the sport bc their families just did not have the $$ to support the "dream". And, with the lack of sponsorship $$ to other than a very few of the elite skaters (Yuna, Evan, Mao, Miki....not sure if the top dance teams ie Tessa/Scott and Meryl/Charlie or pairs teams have any high level of sponsorhip outside of their federations)....or even to many of the federations....makes us wonder what will become of the sport and of the athletes who love skating.

 

[gkelly]

There's an article from 2004 linked near the bottom of this page called "What Does It Cost to Skate Competitively?" that might shed some light in general terms for skaters working their way up in the US.

 

[Layfan]

Patrick Chan's family organizes fund raising events in Canada to help support the costs of his training for instance.

Still? I would have thought that after winning a world championship and all the shows he gets to do he'd be okay with funding. On the other hand, it's not a great environment out there for endorsements and I don't know what his situation is with that.

 

[silverpond]

I cannot provide a specific annual amount of cash that is required to fund competitive figure skating, but with the cost of coaching, ice time, choreographers, ballet, costumes, music, travel, publicity photo shoots, etc. - the bill has to be astronomical for most families.

Recall seeing an "up close and personal" on Killy and Peter Carruthers, the US pairs champions who won the silver at the 1984 Olympics. They said (sic) "Our parents drove an old car with over 200,000 miles. We ate plenty of spaghetti and other inexpensive meals."

Another "up close and personal" on the late Christopher Bowman, the US men's champion in 1989 and 1992, showed him eating dinner with his family in a kitchen setting. The furnishing were very sparse, and there was a light bulb falling from the ceiling.

The USFSA initiated the Memorial Fund for the dual purposes of (1) honoring the 1961 US World Team that was lost in a tragic airplane crash enroute to that year's World Championships and (2) to provide funds for promising young American skaters to pursue their dream of becoming top competitive figure skaters.

Some countries, such as the former East Germany, paid all expenses for their top skaters. The families did not need to meet the expenses; however, the GDR kept a close tab on their skaters, and these young athletes were expected to do well - win medals, etc.

 

[leafygreens]

I skate about 4-5 hours a week and take one twenty minute lesson a week, and it costs me about $300 a month to skate. I struggle to pay for that. I don't know how the elite skaters do it. Oh not counting club fees/competitions.

 

[silverpond]

Some of the skaters have sponsors who pay the expenses. I do not know her name, but I believe that a lady from Princeton, NJ helped to finance the training expenses for both Nancy Kerrigan and Paul Wylie.

In the "good old days", competitive figure skaters were required to be amateurs and not accept any cash or gifts for their training and/or results. The top eligible skaters today can earn sizeable funds for guest appearances, shows, and other 'pro' endeavors. Once a skater reaches the top level, the opportunity is there to earn a handsome living - and repay all of the accumulated bills from the years they were climbing to the top.

 

[Nigel]

There's an article from 2004 linked near the bottom of this page called "What Does It Cost to Skate Competitively?" that might shed some light in general terms for skaters working their way up in the US.

I suspect the $$ quotes for the early years are still accurate. But, I think the costs sincre 2004 have gone up, esp for the higher level skaters. Time to update that article.
As an aside....does the USFS parents goup still exist? Do these type of articles still get written/published by USFS?

 

[gkelly]

As an aside....does the USFS parents goup still exist? Do these type of articles still get written/published by USFS?

The parents committee definitely still exists: http://www.usfigureskating.org/Story.asp?type=leadership&id=949

I haven't been reading my Skating magazine religiously enough to keep track of whether they're publishing parent-oriented articles on a regular basis. It looks like the latest ones linked on that Club Parents page are from 2009.

 

[silver.blades]

I know that for a test level skater skating 3-4 hours taking 2 lessons a week and testing 3-4 times a year in Canada runs about $4000. That doesn't include the cost of skates or costumes as test skaters don't usually buy them every year. I'm not sure about competitive skaters, but my friend who is pre-novice pays about $3000 in ice fees every year and about another couple hundred for off ice training. I'd guess that her coaching fees run about $4200 add in choreography fees, costume fees, test fees, competition fees and equipment care skating costs her at least $10,000 a year and most likely a little bit more. I know my club subsidizes skater who play music, PA or work in the office by reducing their fees based on how much they work and I'm sure that other clubs do the same.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Still? I would have thought that after winning a world championship and all the shows he gets to do he'd be okay with funding. On the other hand, it's not a great environment out there for endorsements and I don't know what his situation is with that.

Patrick Chan's bill is approximately $150,000, according to the Toronto Star

The technical side required a large support crew and a coaching investment of 150,000 Canadian dollars, about $158,000, according to a report in The Toronto Star.

(src)

The "Own the Podium" program that Canada was doing is continuing to fund athletes. I believe the disbursement to SC was $750,000 (Chan is an athlete that's intended to support, as well as Reynolds, Phaneuf, Virtue/Moir, and several others. I'll have to find the link, though).

At this point, I'd be surprised if SC wasn't funding a large portion of Chan and V/M's costs, at the very least.

 

[Violet Bliss]

A rising Junior such as Joshua Farris requires $70K a year.

World Champ Patrick Chan's expenses run about $150K. He talks about training costs in this interview (in English) in China. The Canadian Chinese community organizes a fundraising gala for him each year which happens to be today (Sept 9) this year, with tickets going for $130 each, and $10,000 for the tilte sponsor. I wish he wouldn't promote McDonald's but it's his only commercial sponsor right now, and they are only a Silver sponsor at the Gala. #Cheap. As a top skater, he earns prizes and does shows, which really cut into his training this year since he did them in China and then Korea, staying with relatives in Singapore in between. The Japanese skaters can at least do shows mostly at home.

Whether they are shows or sponsorships, it's work and time consuming. A sponsored athlete has to help promote the commerce or the causes of the supporters, making appearances and speeches of appreciations. As a role model, a successful athlete like Patrick also performs community services to give back to the sport and the society. Donations and support go both ways. Training in the US also involves a lot of traveling back and forth for Patrick to fulfil his many duties. Patrick's frugalness is almost legendary in China as they love to tell the story of how he once dragged his luggage on a bus and ran to attend a press conference instead of taking a taxi. He was late and when Slipchuck asked why he had not text him, Patrick said that would cost 60 cents. I don't know if he's still so frugal but he does appear in a few same t-shirts repeatedly and internationally.

There are expenses besides for ice time, coaches for both training and competition accompaniment, choreographer, physiotherapist, trainer, dietician, other specialists, and of couse costumes and equipments. The costs of being an elite skater go up with the ranking, though winnings bring in prize money. Honestly, skating prizes are meagre for such an expensive sport. So often a skater atually has to pay a fee to participate in a competition. :sheesh:

Last year, Patrick skipped 4CC to prepare for Worlds and to earn prize money from the National Team event after. Well, he lost both income chances.

Nam Nguyen's family too finds it increasingly hard to nurture his talents and they are seeking sponsors. Maybe Canadian Vietnamese community would do the same for Nam as the Chinese do for Patrick. For all the criticism of Joanne Mcleod and advice to leave her, I suspect most BC skaters can't afford to train elsewhere.

I wish the general public would be more generous and financially supportive of their world class athletes who bring national pride, not just during the Olympics.

I often wish instead of stuffies and flowers, fans will channel cash to their favorite skaters.

IP, I posted about the Athlete Assistance Program in Canada and how much it paid out last year.

 

[OS]

Does anyone know how much ISU make out of each events? Not to accuse anyone of anything, but I have always wondered.

Unlike Tennis (Multiple matches, 2 or 4 at a time that last 2-3 hours, 4-6 rounds) or Football matches (Multiple teams, min 3 hour matches, 4-6), there are limited air time per event, and audience attendance numbers (2 events per competition per category, 4 categories, total 7 minutes + warm up time).

Something like this is similar to swimming, diving, or track and field events (Although there can be multiple events going on at the same time, and they are events easily affordable and relate-able by the general public.

I am surprised Skating hasn't been packaged more sexily as a sport. Even it has some cheese factor, but things can always been improved. It is a beautiful and cultured sport, there's so much to love: refined athleticism, insane technical prowess, that touches on musicality, costumes/fashion, make up, dance etc, things we don't associate with sport but the theater. Perhaps they should get some fashion designer to push up the market value, like what Ralph Lauren did for Polo. Get it featured on Vogue ... expand the industry, spearhead a bigger momentum to attract public interest. Or have more one off events to raise the profile of the sport, like bridging into other field to gain additional audiences/interest. E.g How would the Royal Ballet choreographer able to help to shape a skating program and vice versa? Or film composer produce for different programs, athletes? Or fashion/industrial designers produce different costume etc? Put these in a show or exhibition, non traditional skating fans will come. I am not saying the above are the right sort of approaches, but the business side of the sport need to be revitalized somehow.

Otherwise it will continue to be an expensive 'noble' sport no one can afford it or frankly cared. It will continue to involve participants from well funded/powerful federations (hence political /negative public connotation) , and the very lucky few that has an amazingly supportive parents/network to help them but at great risks and costs.

 

[leafygreens]

In the "good old days", competitive figure skaters were required to be amateurs and not accept any cash or gifts for their training and/or results. The top eligible skaters today can earn sizeable funds for guest appearances, shows, and other 'pro' endeavors. Once a skater reaches the top level, the opportunity is there to earn a handsome living - and repay all of the accumulated bills from the years they were climbing to the top.

I'm so glad this is not a rule anymore. It is unfair to tell a skater that "You do not have the right to have a job and earn a living" while competing. As rare as modeling and performing jobs are, they're still a job and put food on the table. It is just too arbitrary to tell a skater that you can have a job as long as it's a secretary where you have to work 9-5 and have no time to train, but you can't have a skating job where you get paid for an appearance or paid to model. Because of these rules you had some skaters who are out there on their own and unable to afford training, competing against skaters born and bred in a communist regime where everything is provided.

 

[just wondering]

* * *
I am surprised Skating hasn't been packaged more sexily as a sport. Even it has some cheese factor, but things can always been improved. It is a beautiful and cultured sport, there's so much to love: refined athleticism, insane technical prowess, that touches on musicality, costumes/fashion, make up, dance etc, things we don't associate with sport but the theater. Perhaps they should get some fashion designer to push up the market value, like what Ralph Lauren did for Polo. Get it featured on Vogue ... expand the industry, spearhead a bigger momentum to attract public interest. Or have more one off events to raise the profile of the sport, like bridging into other field to gain additional audiences/interest. E.g How would the Royal Ballet choreographer able to help to shape a skating program and vice versa? Or film composer produce for different programs, athletes? Or fashion/industrial designers produce different costume etc? Put these in a show or exhibition, non traditional skating fans will come. I am not saying the above are the right sort of approaches, but the business side of the sport need to be revitalized somehow.

Otherwise it will continue to be an expensive 'noble' sport no one can afford it or frankly cared. It will continue to involve participants from well funded/powerful federations (hence political /negative public connotation) , and the very lucky few that has an amazingly supportive parents/network to help them but at great risks and costs.

I have had similar marketing thoughts (so of course I think yours are brilliant ) But, seriously, the marketing of skating is very dated and not at all in keeping with trends of cross-pollination of industries and interests. So much upside to testing these avenues of promotion. I hope someone is thinking along those line, because skating seems like a relatively easy product to market.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I know right! Skating is one of the most expensive sports out there. I don't know how so many families do it, and i am talking about the families who pay for the daughter/son to skate 3 hours + a day, with an hour's worth of instruction, competition costumes, fees, traveling....for years and years as the skater moves through the ranks, usually to lose interest or get injured or realize that they never will make it past the middle of the pack. At least Chan and Mirai and the others have a legitimate shot at a few moments of glory for all that expense, that is something that most skaters can't say.

 

[Violet Bliss]

The performance aspect of figure skating may be easy to market relative to many sports but its athletic and esthetic aspects require copious amount of time, hard work, and cash to attain. The athletism is necessary to keep the sport in the Olympics and its Olympic inclusion is necessary for the exposure and marketing opportunities. As it is, only the top skaters - mostly the Worlds and Olympics champions - have drawing power and get invited to perform in shows. Meanwhile, competing skaters struggle to finance their training for most of their lives before achieving the probable but often eluding glory and titles.

Also, sexing up and glamorizing figure skating in its marketing may incure some backlash against its sport status, as there are already enough pageantry accusations even among its fans.

The wonderful and unique combination of athletism and artistry of figure skating presents also a challenge and a delicate balance for its image and marketing.

 

[Nigel]

The performance aspect of figure skating may be easy to market relative to many sports but its athletic and esthetic aspects require copious amount of time, hard work, and cash to attain. The athletism is necessary to keep the sport in the Olympics and its Olympic inclusion is necessary for the exposure and marketing opportunities. As it is, only the top skaters - mostly the Worlds and Olympics champions - have drawing power and get invited to perform in shows. Meanwhile, competing skaters struggle to finance their training for most of their lives before achieving the probable but often eluding glory and titles.

Also, sexing up and glamorizing figure skating in its marketing may incure some backlash against its sport status, as there are already enough pageantry accusations even among its fans.

The wonderful and unique combination of athletism and artistry of figure skating presents also a challenge and a delicate balance for its image and marketing.

Well, lets face it....the old tried and true doesn't seem to be working anymore.
If we all had the chance to sit down with the Marketing directors at the ISU (anyone know who that is?), USA (Ramsey Baker), Canada (is Debbie Wilkes still the Dir of Marketing), etc and could do a focus panel with these folks, what would our objectives be? How would we approach marketing a sport that has definitely struggled in the last 10 years or so (not to rehash the 'whack' heard around the world or the IJS judging issues)....but to present concrete ideas to the folks who make the decisions. While reading the NYTimes this morning, a number of corporate groups have gone outside their normal marketing strategies.....
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2011/09/11/business/20110911-college.html
and mind you, not that I endorse this marketing strategy on college campuses, but it did get us to talking this morning over brunch....as a group of us with college age kids looked at the strategy....marketing towards some of their current clients, but on a different platform than in the past.
Another sport has taken a bold step...membership into their association for free for new members...under age 10.
http://membership.usta.com/content....ree&utm_medium=left-promo&utm_source=usta-com
Get the kids interested at minimal cost (and perhaps the parents as well)...with minimal expenditures, an approach at opening up the membership base...new blood!

What does skating need to do?

 

[gkelly]

Here are a few questions to help focus the discussion:

1) What do you think the "problem" is that needs to be solved?

2) Are you looking at this from the perspective of US Figure Skating marketing skating in the US, or the ISU marketing skating internationally?

3) Are you considering changing the way the sport is practiced or just how the elite level of the existing sport is marketed to audiences?

4) Are you focused more on marketing to audiences or to (potential) participants?

 

[Violet Bliss]

Successful marketing and even popularity of the sport does not necessarily solve the financial problems of training, especially for the not yet successful, i.e. the majority of skaters. Even if the top skaters may earn good incomes from shows, they will come late in their competitive careers and after, if they choose to have a professional skating career.

So much funding is needed before any earning opportunities, which are only available to some. A handful of skating stars get invited to perform in various parts of the world. Even in Japan today, how many skating rock stars are there?

Successful marketing may create popularity and commercial endorsements. But again they will come only to a handful of ultra successful skaters, most likely only if they are from a wealthy nation with rich corporations. It's still a winner-takes-all system.

What need to addressed is fundamental grass root financing and assistance of young talents so they can afford to stay in the sports. What is the total cost before someone reaches national senior competition level? Then the costs only escalate from there.

The capitalist and market systems are not conducive to private commercial money going to the sport rather than a few individuals. What is needed is money for the sport and all participants or at least the promising talents, not just income opportunities for a few.

 

[aftertherain]

I wish the general public would be more generous and financially supportive of their world class athletes who bring national pride, not just during the Olympics.

I often wish instead of stuffies and flowers, fans will channel cash to their favorite skaters.

I just pictured fans throwing red envelopes out onto the ice after every one of Chan's performances.