The Return of Russia in Men's Figure Skating
- Thread starter Joesitz (RIP)
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Well not officially speaking, Plushenko should be back this 20th at the Japan Open (I still think he shouldn't but oh well). Plushenko now has stated everywhere (but to his credit, it's the journalists that keep asking gim because it seems they don't believe it) that he is coming back, so has Mishin. Pissiev stated that in these weeks, he should get Plushenko's schedule for the upcoming season, training-wise.
Last interview he did was in Kiev where he had a show last week and he said he is doing well and he is finally doing quads on practices. I watched a video of his presentation in Kiev and while he was not doing anything that impressive, he looked better than previous performance.
As for the future of the Russian men, I think (putting Plush aside), Russia should be happy to have Voronov, Dobrin and Lutai. Now even Griazev seems more motivated to get better and get into the fight with the rest. If I'm not wrong, those four are in the very early 20's right? So they should be around at least until 2012 and they could easily stay until 2014 if Russia's biggest hope for that year, Arthur G. doesn't turn out to be ready yet. I don't know much about Griazev anymore but Dobrin and Lutai are very talented skaters, Dobrin reminded me a lot of Abt, but when he moved to Mishin, he sort of became a mix of Abt-Plush, but hey that works for me as well.
I think Voronov have the very "in your face" attitude style, you could see it in the expression of his face while doing his FS. And considering he is been injured all season long (reason why he does not do lutzes or flip) I think he did an amazing job, especially considering you just know how much pressure the fed was putting on him. And in a selfish note, it's always wonderful to finally get to see Urmy again!! Even if it is just on the K&C, thank to him and Weir, I get to see two of my favorite past skaters, Urmy and Viktor.
So I think Russia may start breathing in relief again on the men.
Last interview he did was in Kiev where he had a show last week and he said he is doing well and he is finally doing quads on practices. I watched a video of his presentation in Kiev and while he was not doing anything that impressive, he looked better than previous performance.
As for the future of the Russian men, I think (putting Plush aside), Russia should be happy to have Voronov, Dobrin and Lutai. Now even Griazev seems more motivated to get better and get into the fight with the rest. If I'm not wrong, those four are in the very early 20's right? So they should be around at least until 2012 and they could easily stay until 2014 if Russia's biggest hope for that year, Arthur G. doesn't turn out to be ready yet. I don't know much about Griazev anymore but Dobrin and Lutai are very talented skaters, Dobrin reminded me a lot of Abt, but when he moved to Mishin, he sort of became a mix of Abt-Plush, but hey that works for me as well.
I think Voronov have the very "in your face" attitude style, you could see it in the expression of his face while doing his FS. And considering he is been injured all season long (reason why he does not do lutzes or flip) I think he did an amazing job, especially considering you just know how much pressure the fed was putting on him. And in a selfish note, it's always wonderful to finally get to see Urmy again!! Even if it is just on the K&C, thank to him and Weir, I get to see two of my favorite past skaters, Urmy and Viktor.
So I think Russia may start breathing in relief again on the men.
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
You know - we could, as an academic excercise, try to score Winter and The Man in the Iron Mask based on CoP. My guess is that the marks would be fairly high (yes, even taking into account that neither program was put together for CoP). The jumps in Winter were a quad toe-triple toe, a triple axel and a triple lutz, which would be a 26.50 base value without any of the other elements included and with no positive GOEs. I actually went and checked this
. Does anyone know enough about spin and step levels to calculate the rest? True, and I think he's come to terms with it. But we'll always have 2002.
I for one would hate to see Plushenko return. He would end up winning no matter what. The last few years he got rewarded for doing nothing but the Quad. And even when he messed up he was always held up enough that he would win overall. I would hate for skating to go back to the days when one skater was assured of winning every event he entered no matter what, just because of who he was. Yes he was great at the quad and at the combos but the rest of his skating was not that much better then anyone else but yet he was marked as if it were.
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- Feb 4, 2008
He has but has everyone else?
I was overjoyed when he announced his return and so when he announced that it wasn't possible I was so upset!
Still, he remains the greatest.
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
Well, cheers for YouTube, I guess - so that perfection can live onHe has but has everyone else?
. I remember watching him do Winter at 2002 Europeans and thinking, Plushenko is so getting the silver in SLC . Also, 2002 was the senior debut of Joubert, Lambiel and, if I'm not mistaken, Verner. Is there anything to top all that?Sorry, did he ever won something he shouldn't have?
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- Mar 25, 2008
I think 2004 worlds is debatable: remember, he was second after the SP and had a decent FS but slipped and fell at the end? This was the tail end of 6.0 and some judges gave him a 5.9 or possibly a 6.0 for presentation. I recall the Eurosport guys not being too happy about that mark.
He also came awfully close to winning Europeans that year despite an atrocious free skate and Joubert skating clean with The Matrix. That was actually the last time he lost. I think only Sandhu beat him under CoP at 2003 GPF, and even that was because Plushenko threw in an extra combination and it wasn't counted in his TS.
Following that season, I only saw him skate at 2005 and 2006 Euros and 2006 Olympics, and while he was a deserving winner in all three, the marks he got in Torino 06 were excessive. Honestly by that point I think he could have just shown up and skated laps around the rink.
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At Worlds 2004, he was first after the SP. And for the FS, when it comes to the commentators actually CBC and ABC (and Spanish Eurosport for that matter...yes I know a little fanatic) were absolutely convinced Plushenko deserved to win that despite that fall. And I don't think it was just decent, if I'm not wrong, putting aside that fall, it was the cleanest program he did whole season long (no counting RN). As for the marks, I think the judges trapped themselves. I mean it seems judges agreed he deserved to win, but if you see the other makrs from Joubert, the only way they could place him first on the ordinals was by awarding him those marks. I remember he got 3-4 6.0 for pres but if you see Joubert's marks he got 3-4 5.9 for pres meaning that those 4 judges (whoever they were because it was anonymus), had to put Plush 6.0 to put him on first. While I think he skated really well that day, to me a fall does interrupt a program and I imagine if the marks for the rest would not have been that high, they wouldn't have marked him with a 6.0.
It would have been insane if Plush had won Euros 04, but the marks weren't that close, I think Joubert got 5.8-5.9 for tech while Plush got 5.4-5.7. And yes some of the marks were high but I do wonder if judges were already thinking COP. That season was COP for GP events and 6.0 for the rest and while Plush fell apart, he did made 4-3-2, a 3a-3t-2l and second 3a. I think Ilia ended up 3rd but I don't remember what exactly he did.
Yes, he has been overmarked but I don't think he has ever won something he shouldn't have as Sackie said it.
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
Yeah, he was first throughout the competition. I got it mixed up with 2005 Euros, were Joubert led following the SP. I don't remember who the British Eurosport crew thought should have won in 2004 Worlds, but I do remember them commenting on the presentation mark being a tad high considering Plushenko ended the program on his backside. I hadn't realized the judges were out of options with the second mark. Definitely a good argument for CoP.
As I remember it, it was very close in terms of how many judges had Joubert in first vs. Plushenko in first. My memory (which has been somewhat faulty on the subject
) says one fall and at least two jumps that he downgraded or maybe landed badly? This being pre-CoP I can't look it up in the protocols and my connection is too slow for youtube on this computer*. I certainly won't argue he wasn't a deserving winner throughout 2005 and 2006... just an overmarked one
.* Ok, I had some time and looked it up in the ISU news archive. It was two falls (one on a popped axel), a singled axel (not the one he fell on) and he doubled a Salchow. It doesn't say how many judges had Joubert vs. Plushenko in first. Klimkin missed on some jumps, as it turns out: a quad and both flips.
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And although he ended up withdrawing at 2005 Worlds he had a terrible short and was still kept close in 5th place so he could win with his Quad combo. I didn't say he didn't deserve to win but he should never have been that far out front of the others after the short that they didn't have a chance. Yes he had great jumps and combos but the rest of his skating was very overmarked, IMO!
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- Jan 24, 2004
not sure if it's worth hyping (since "we all heard it before") - but it was reported today that Plushenko submitted his plan for the season to Piseev. So he may be actually back next season!
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Oh joy! Oh rapture! (Stealing an Oscar Wilde line.)
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- Jun 21, 2003
This thread has taken an interesting turn. It started out as "the return of Russia" as a force in men's figure skating. Impressive progress by Voronov (age 20), Dobrin (21), Uspenski (20) and Borodulin (19) auger well for the future.
Somehow we sidled over to "return of Plushenko." That was then, this is now, who will turn out to be the future?
Somehow we sidled over to "return of Plushenko." That was then, this is now, who will turn out to be the future?
He'll have to appear in Japan Open on April 20, first. If he doesn't wd.
We can always turn this thread into another Michelle's shrine, can't we?
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- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
All skating threads are tacitly Michelle Kwan shrines!
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Not trying to be bitchy but for my own interest. the above is about Plushenko.He has but has everyone else?
I was overjoyed when he announced his return and so when he announced that it wasn't possible I was so upset!
Still, he remains the greatest.
When he announced of his return, were you overjoyed for him? or Russia? or both? Personally, I am not one for welcoming come-backs.
Joe
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