The state of U.S. Figure Skating

[fairly4]

mathman you are right michelles fault for skating so well, fighting for it most of the time.
no -not really but i wouldn't be surprised if alot of fans, skaters, and others in skating community thinks so.
they gave lip service to michelle-alot and nailed her skating alot, but overlooked the faults of all the others.

 

[Mathman]

Alissa had the bigger meltdown...not even close...Mirai actually landed quite a few triples in her 2010 worlds performances....and her LP performance had a huge 2a/3t, and she only had one fall.

I think everyone agrees that Alissa's skating performance was abysmal beyond record. What I don't go along with is the segue to..."therefore Alissa is an evil person."

 

[Olympia]

People were slamming Sasha after the 2006 Olympics? I was so relieved! I had been terrified that she'd crumble completely. When she picked herself up after the second stumble and kept skating, I was thrilled. And then she won a silver! I was jubilant. Maybe I'm just peculiar, or maybe I was still in shock because Michelle had to withdraw. I also had the fabulous consolation prize of Shizuka winning the gold, so maybe this made my brain lose calibration about Sasha.

Two people I feel really sorry for are Jason and Yuka. Whether there's something in their training methods or just sheer bad luck, three of their skaters did badly at Worlds this year. It's a devastating occurrence for coaches at the best of times, and these are not the best of times. I guess this is the risk you take when you choose to coach head cases, but golly, their methods worked last year. I don't imagine anyone at that rink has gotten any sleep since, say, Friday.

 

[R.D.]

Once again, this is not a "bad performance" or a "bad day," it is a nightmare performance of historic proportions, the nadir of US skating. Phil Hersh has certainly made that case to the readers of the Chicago Tribune.

And for once, he's right. Perhaps luckily for Czisny, no one in the US even cares about skating any more to give her a really hard time over it, apart from Hersh, local papers and internet forum fans.

It's honestly no use any more to bemoan the past, say Zhang should have gone, Czisny should have been yanked, etc. But what needs to happen is an extensive investigation into USFS' World Team selection procedures and the current trajectory we are on. Does it make sense any longer to simply go with the top 2 or top 3 at Nationals every time? Perhaps Nationals needs to be de-emphasized in importance a little so that our skaters peak at Worlds instead? Should we continue to send the "A-Team" to Four Continents (another opportunity to peak early)? Do we need to implement test skates/monitoring sessions for World team members? And, most importantly, should USFS gain the authority to pull anyone from a World Team that is deemed unfit? Should the entire USFS organization be re-structured so it is in better position to help its skaters?

Questions like these are what we should be asking so that this never happens again.

 

[skfan]

OK--I agree with all of this ^^^

I also really wish that people would stop equating the world of "amateur" figure skating with pro sports. If these skater athletes, at least in the US, were making the kind of money that pro football/baseball players, etc., then I might feel we all have a little more rationale for our complaints and criticism. I don't care about the Super Bowl commercial and yes, they have to view their training as their "job." But the financial support these athletes get from grassroots until they finally reach the top is pitiful. This long road is not a job, but volunteerism out of a passion, and they keep going through hard work, determination, and family support/generosity (or stupidity, depending on how you look at it). These athletes will also not be making much money following their amateur careers either, especially now. I'm actually amazed the US has the talent it does.

does this also not apply to the other non-czisny U.S. ladies? the ones who don't deserve a better shot to make it to worlds, because the U.S. doesn't deserve 3 spots in the minds of some czisny fans here?

another reason she cannot be held responsible: she wasn't paid as much as a pro football player. please, somebody, make a list of all the reasons. i'd find it a more credible list if it starts with #1 'because she's pretty' and *looks* like she needs her gallant knights (equally anonymous here) to protect her.

 

[FlattFan]

Poor Caroline, never given the chance. Other girls are just passing her one by one.

 

[R.D.]

I think everyone agrees that Alissa's skating performance was abysmal beyond record. What I don't go along with is the segue to..."therefore Alissa is an evil person."

Well, maybe not "evil" in that sense, but I do think it's totally fair game to question her judgment, especially when there were healthy, fit and able skaters waiting in line behind her to go- and because of her low finish, not only do we have 2 spots for next year, but apparently the 2nd lady we send now has to do the qualifying round. Her outing here affects the entire program, not just her psyche.

 

[skfan]

I think everyone agrees that Alissa's skating performance was abysmal beyond record. What I don't go along with is the segue to..."therefore Alissa is an evil person."

please find where i said that.

 

[conga]

does this also not apply to the other non-czisny U.S. ladies? the ones who don't deserve a better shot to make it to worlds, because the U.S. doesn't deserve 3 spots in the minds of some czisny fans here?

another reason she cannot be held responsible: she wasn't paid as much as a pro football player. please, somebody, make a list of all the reasons. i'd find it a more credible list if it starts with #1 'because she's pretty' and *looks* like she needs her gallant knights (equally anonymous here) to protect her.

This comment was not meant to be specific to Alissa, but to all skaters who fail to meet the expectations of "fans" who provide correlations that are not equitable.

 

[fairly4]

yes for me it would apply to all U. S. skaters and especially -nationals champs, world medalist.

the u.s is getting lackadaisy in their skating at international events.
i am tired of seeing it. i can understand getting by at gp events. but should up it at 4cc, worlds and after nationals. it becomes a bit more important.

the skaters when skating are fighting for marketability-and future marketablity-where public opinion matters .

 

[skfan]

This comment was not meant to be specific to Alissa, but to all skaters who fail to meet the expectations of "fans" who provide correlations that are not equitable.

how much responsibility does she have, in your opinion?

no doubt in your mind we are not real fans, thus the quotation marks. becuz to be a skating fan, or even a fan of u.s. skating, one must be enamored of czisny? otherwise one's eyes and judgement are surely defective? and we're fair-weather fans, if we can even be called fans without the quotation marks.

 

[Dragonlady]

I was responding to Dragonlady who was appalled at the idea of criticizing Alissa.

There is criticism, and then there is the sort of flat out nastiness and sense of entitlement to kick someone when they're down.

And for the record, I have not deleted any post. And I still firmly believe that skaters should not have been sent to Europe for a competition two weeks before Worlds, regardless of who's idea it was. The USFSA made the assignment, whether the skaters/coaches asked for it or not. The Americans are the only skaters who travelled overseas to this competition and then went to Worlds.

 

[skfan]

There is criticism, and then there is the sort of flat out nastiness and sense of entitlement to kick someone when they're down.

And for the record, I have not deleted any post. And I still firmly believe that skaters should not have been sent to Europe for a competition two weeks before Worlds, regardless of who's idea it was. The USFSA made the assignment, whether the skaters/coaches asked for it or not. The Americans are the only skaters who travelled overseas to this competition and then went to Worlds.

perhaps those who seek to exonerate her write posts that provoke others to provide commentary to the contrary.


i still find it 'nasty' that czisny fans can glibly declare that the u.s. ladies don't need or deserve 3 spots at worlds. how many people did you just dismiss, disregard, here?


to R.D.: you actually believe _something_ will happen, other than the cover-your-butt scenario i proposed, where everybody comes out smelling like roses? i admire your unrelenting faith.

 

[conga]

...But what needs to happen is an extensive investigation into USFS' World Team selection procedures and the current trajectory we are on. Does it make sense any longer to simply go with the top 2 or top 3 at Nationals every time? Perhaps Nationals needs to be de-emphasized in importance a little so that our skaters peak at Worlds instead? Should we continue to send the "A-Team" to Four Continents (another opportunity to peak early)? Do we need to implement test skates/monitoring sessions for World team members? And, most importantly, should USFS gain the authority to pull anyone from a World Team that is deemed unfit? Should the entire USFS organization be re-structured so it is in better position to help its skaters?

Questions like these are what we should be asking so that this never happens again.

These are all excellent points, but my fear is that the process could end up being so unstructured that we will have even more of a selection by whim than we had when a 13th place National finisher jumped over all the others to receive 4CC. What would prevent even more bias being involved and in monitoring sessions and the USFS authority to pull a skater (other than for injury)? How would skaters train for so much unknown?

 

[chuckm]

Alissa is not an evil person. She just lacks what it takes to be a strong competition skater: consistently good jump technique and nerves of steel.

She had no technique whatsoever with her jumps at Worlds. She simply flung herself into the air and then came down on the ice, over and over again. I was surprised that she was given credit for several of the 3-attempts. I didn't see 3 rotations in the air on any of her 'attempts'.

Something was clearly wrong right from the beginning. When she came on the ice, her face was swollen (from crying?) and she looked terrified. On another board, the suggestion was raised that she had had "a bereavement", but there's been no confirmation of that. After she skated, not a word was passed among Jason, Yuka and Alissa.

Alissa should have withdrawn after the SP, where she fell twice. She would have spared herself the embarrassment of the FS. Ashley needed only to place top 10 to keep two places for next year, and that looked pretty good after the SP. Yes, the 2nd US lady would have to do the QR next year, but with Alissa's 22nd place in the FS, that was the outcome anyway.

My guess is Alissa insisted on doing the FS, and one can only wonder why. Perhaps she didn't want to be seen as a quitter. That may have been a misguided decision, but it was not an evil one.

 

[skfan]

Alissa is not an evil person. She just lacks what it takes to be a strong competition skater: consistently good jump technique and nerves of steel.

She had no technique whatsoever with her jumps at Worlds. She simply flung herself into the air and then came down on the ice, over and over again. I was surprised that she was given credit for several of the 3-attempts. I didn't see 3 rotations in the air on any of her 'attempts'.

Something was clearly wrong right from the beginning. When she came on the ice, her face was swollen (from crying?) and she looked terrified. On another board, the suggestion was raised that she had had "a bereavement", but there's been no confirmation of that. After she skated, not a word was passed among Jason, Yuka and Alissa.

Alissa should have withdrawn after the SP, where she fell twice. She would have spared herself the embarrassment of the FS. Ashley needed only to place top 10 to keep two places for next year, and that looked pretty good after the SP. Yes, the 2nd US lady would have to do the QR next year, but with Alissa's 22nd place in the FS, that was the outcome anyway.

My guess is Alissa insisted on doing the FS, and one can only wonder why. Perhaps she didn't want to be seen as a quitter. That may have been a misguided decision, but it was not an evil one.

can someone show me a post where she's been called 'evil' in this thread?

 

[Spun Silver]

Thank you.

 

[brightphoton]

Why do Yuka and Jason get a free pass in this? Of the four single skaters who went to worlds, three of them were from their team (and two were held up at Nationals, red flag #1). They also sent their skaters to Europe 2 weeks before worlds where two skated very poorly and yet didn't withdraw red flag #2. Of all the American skaters at worlds, the only one who didn't skate terribly was the one who wasn't coached by them, red flag #3. How did those two get so much political influence and then let their athletes perform in such a manner? I still call bull when Yuka and Jason say Alissa isn't injured and that Alissa and Jeremy and Rippon are well-trained. I feel like those two are hiding something.

 

[Mathman]

That's very nice, Mathman, and I'm sure you were among (Sashs's) kinder critics. But the mea culpa comes a little late, doesn't it?

True. :ashamed:

When I first started reading figure skating boards I was quite naive. I thought it was all just fun and games. LIke, ha ha, Michigan is going to crush Ohio State. Ohio Skate can't play ball worth a lick, ha ha.

It took me a long time to realize how invested we all are in our favorite guys and gals. It's great for figure skating to have passionate fans, but the flip side is that we can't joke around in cheerleading for one side and displaying our cleverness by taking witty jabs at the other.

The only skater that I ever said anything really bad about (skating-wise) was Irina Slutskaya. True, she did have the colossal nerve to try to beat Michelle Kwan, but now I forgive her for that and I wish I had a couple of those posts back.

please find where i said that (that Alissa is an evil person).

Sorry, I didn't mean to be accusing anyone in particular.

Still, I do not exactly see what this discussion is about. Did Alissa bomb at Worlds? Yes. Was she hiding an injury? We don't know. If so, was she doing it selfishly to deprive other skaters of their rightful due, or nobly because she wanted to do her best no matter what? We don't know.

Should the USFSA take steps to insure that no U.S. skater ever skates badly in international competition again? Well, that sounds like a good idea. Yes, I approve of that.

I am reminded of the time when Sasha did not skate well at U.S. nationals one year. Then it was revealed after the fact that she had stayed up the night before baking cookies. Oh my God! Cookies!!! How selfish and irresponsible of her! I bet she ate them all herself, too. I bet they were chocolate chip, too.

 

[Mrs. P]

Why do Yuka and Jason get a free pass in this? Of the four single skaters who went to worlds, three of them were from their team (and two were held up at Nationals, red flag #1). They also sent their skaters to Europe 2 weeks before worlds where two skated very poorly and yet didn't withdraw red flag #2. Of all the American skaters at worlds, the only one who didn't skate terribly was the one who wasn't coached by them, red flag #3. How did those two get so much political influence and then let their athletes perform in such a manner? I still call bull when Yuka and Jason say Alissa isn't injured and that Alissa and Jeremy and Rippon are well-trained. I feel like those two are hiding something.

But they also coach Valentina Marchei from Italy, who actually did quite well, relatively speaking. She had her highest placement at Worlds ever and helped Italy get 3 spots. (Of course Carolina winning made it much easier, but still she easily could have ended up below 12th.)