The UpFront Loading

[hockeyfan228]

I think the Free Skate may be a lost cause, with the hardest three-four jump elements or a warm-up jump and then most of the hardest three-four jump elements at the beginning of the program. Even with the mini-front-load reprise when the bonus kicks in, those generally aren't the hardest jumps. (Did anyone but Stojko try the quad in the last minute of a program?)

For the Short Program, I would like to see a bonus of one point for every non-jump element done before the first jump, and a bonus of one point for every element between jumps until the last jump, except when there are two of the same elements done in a row (footwork or spins for Men/spins for Ladies), up to four additional points, the value of the easiest triple jump. If other other elements take away energy from the jumps, this adds difficulty, even if the jumps aren't as hard as three front-loaded ones. At least that would distribute the elements.

 

[Mathman]

I think the Free Skate may be a lost cause, with the hardest three-four jump elements or a warm-up jump and then most of the hardest three-four jump elements at the beginning of the program. Even with the mini-front-load reprise when the bonus kicks in, those generally aren't the hardest jumps. (Did anyone but Stojko try the quad in the last minute of a program?)

I think Lambiel is the master of the first half front-load, second half front-load. He doesn't do a quad in the last minute, but he always does his second quad right at the stroke of the start of the bonus period.

Here is Stephane's program from 2008 Worlds. It is in the CoP standard format "4 jumps, rest for two minutes, 4 jumps, footwork & spins to end."

3A
4T+2T
3L
2A
-------------------
4T
3Lz+2T+2T
3S
3F

Last year, for variety, he did (2007 Worlds)

3A
4T+2T+2T
3Lz
2A
-----------------
4T
3Lz+3T
3S
2F+3T

Takahashi at 2008 Worlds did 6 triples after the half-way mark, including a 3A (and also including the 3Lz combo that he didn't get credit for.)

Thanks, GKelly, for the clear explanations of the scoring.

 

[hockeyfan228]

The upside of the double front-load is that it's condusive to a "slow" section between.

I was really impressed by Silna/Matsjuk, the Austrian dance couple, at Worlds. They did a Saturday Night Fever free skate, in which the slow, middle section, to "How Deep Is Your Love" had two lifts and a dance spin, three of the major elements.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

If one really thinks Figure Skating is ballet on ice, one should take another look at ballet. The tour-de-force in ballet is in the Coda which is at the end of the act - Not At The Beginning.

Good choreography in figure skating should show a variety of elements with the mid section as important as the the beginning and ending. There should be a continuous interest leading up to the finale.

I do believe the Quadmen can do a quad at the end of their program, but there is this notion that all the tough jumps should be front loaded and gotten out of the way, and damn the choreography. JMO

Joe

 

[Mathman]

The upside of the double front-load is that it's condusive to a "slow" section between.

Good point, and also Joe's about the rip-roarin' Coda.

Although in figure skating, I think most skaters used a big, spectacular Dorothy Hammel-esque blur spin as the tour-de-force closer. (Except now they can't, because that is only a level 1. )

In some of Michelle Kwan's programs she planned two endings. If she missed her triple-triple at the beginning, then she put in an extra triple toe at the end just to up her jump count (*yawn*). But if she nailed all of her previous jumps, then she ended with a couple of WOWser split jumps into her a closing spin ( )

Anyway, back to the slow-fast-slow program, most concertos are scored like that, with the second movement an adagio. It would be cool for a skater to do a whole concerto, selecting appropriate material from the first, second and third movements, and displaying their virtuoso moves in company with the virtuoso passages of the music. (I nominate both the trumpet concerto and the piano concerto #1 of Johann Nepomuk Hummel. )

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^^^Of course, when we talk about Single Ladies, things are a bit different but those who can 3 Axel and 3x3s will have them up front. It's plain and obvious to get the tough stuff overwith at the beginning. It's so much easier to perform good skating once the toughies are out of the way. It is a Sport and points are important if they can not do these toughies later in the program. CoP doesn't dictate where one should do the toughies.

I thought Mao did a wonderful 3A out of better than simplistic footwork at the beginning of her routine in Tokyo Worlds. In Gotenborg, she went for the long careful preparation but somehow got tripped up.

Dorothy's scratch spin finale was always a winner and Lambiel does it without a head showing. Kudoos to both, but wouldn't it be better if others did a quad or a 3x3 loop before the scratch spin? Is that too difficult for the Sportsperson?

Joe

 

[mskater93]

Very clear you have never skated competitively. Your legs are not fresh near the end of a program (no matter your conditioning level) and to attempt your hardest element(s) right before the end is an invitation to disaster (fall, UR, death, dismemberment). There's also the fact that those elements are going to weigh on your mind throughout until you have completed them which will put a damper on your performance aspect until they're complete.

I know not all skaters are exactly the same in that respect, but speaking from personal experience as a competitor, I would PREFER to get those things out of the way and actually be able to perform. I also tend to breathe better once the toughies are done. Of course, my hard elements are a couple doubles, not 3/3's but still...

 

[gkelly]

In addition to scratch spins, moves like combo spins, quick step sequences, and series of split jumps or jump sequences with single, double, or easier triple jumps have also been popular ways to bring programs to a high-energy climax without the need to muster both explosive muscle power and precision at the same time, as is needed for the hardest jumps.


http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/anatomyandphysiology/a/LT_training.htm

During moderate exercise the lactic acid produced by muscle contractions is low enough for it to be absorbed quickly, but with high-intensity exercise lactic acid is produced faster than the body can absorb it. This lactate threshold is marked by an increased blood concentration of lactic acid, an increase in hydrogen ions and an increased acidity that is thought to and cause fatigue and reduce the power of muscle contractions. At this point the athlete is forced to back off or slow down. Presumably, having a higher lactate threshold means an athlete can continue at a high-intensity effort with a longer time to exhaustion.

Some skaters have a better oxygen capacity than others, and anyone who gets to the elite level will be a much better trained athlete than us ordinary schlubs. But they're still subject to the limits of the human body.

My understanding is that even in the best trained athletes, after 2 minutes or so the lactate is going to start building up in the muscles and limit the ability to perform explosive movements needed for big jumps.

It is also my understanding that ballet performances, esp. classical pas de deux, tend to break up the high-intensity performance into chunks of 1-2 minutes, with bows and breaks for another dancer to perform, giving the dancers' bodies time to recover before the next explosive section.

A skating show with several performers could be structured that way, with short breaks to allow the skaters' muscles to recover and be fresh to perform big jumps as a finale.

For a freeskating competition in which each skater tries to showcase as many difficult skills in one a 4+-minute program without stopping (stops or rests gliding on two feet are considered to make the program easier and also cut down on the time available for showing skating content), the distribution of the difficult elements has to be built around the aerobic capacity of the skater performing the program.

 

[Mathman]

^

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

By all means, let us keep figure skating as easy as possible. It's the performance at the end of the program that counts, and not the beginning.

Joe