This turned out to be a very bad year for Alissa.

[Mathman]

But seriously, Alissa must have expected she'd do poorly at Worlds. Reports were that she was bombing practices, and there was a mention on FSU that she was even in tears after one of her lousy practices..

I think she went into Worlds hoping for the best, like all athletes do.

As for her bad practices at Worlds, it was too late then for her to withdraw in despair. What would we have thought of her if she had said, "oh dear, I had a bad practice, I guess I should quit."

Next year Alissa -- in common with all the other U.S. skaters with Olympic dreams -- will work hard over the summer, tackle the Grand Prix with determination, and give it her best shot at U.S. nationals.

Onward and upward! :yes:

 

[LeCygne]

she didn't *lose* it this year... we didn't HAVE three spots...

we had two spots going into the world championships, and we came out with two... nothing was lost... and nothing was gained.

"Failed to recover" 3 spots would be a better way to put it. With Caroline and Rachael's coming-of-age, the US really did have a good chance to get back that third spot.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

she didn't *lose* it this year... we didn't HAVE three spots...

What would we have thought of her if she had said, "oh dear, I had a bad practice, I guess I should quit."

Next year Alissa -- in common with all the other U.S. skaters with Olympic dreams -- will work hard over the summer, tackle the Grand Prix with determination, and give it her best shot at U.S. nationals.

Onward and upward! :yes:

You two really need to stop attempting logic and rational and dare I say it? Positivity into this conversation... At least for a month or so until the wuzrobbed has subsided a bit

"Failed to recover" 3 spots would be a better way to put it. With Caroline and Rachael's coming-of-age, the US really did have a good chance to get back that third spot.

Unless you attended Hogwarts and have a crystal ball there is no guarntee that Caroline would've skated well enough to earn the third spot.

As National Champion, Alyssa earned her spot to worlds and unless my memory is truly going, placed better this year than last. Stuff happens.

The US earned two spots and life goes on.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Everyone's PCS scores are low when they skate that early in the competition.

Again, bad judging. Skate order shouldn't determine scores. Obviously that's how it has ALWAYS been in this sport but that doesn't make it right.

 

[bekalc]

Again, bad judging. Skate order shouldn't determine scores. Obviously that's how it has ALWAYS been in this sport but that doesn't make it right.

Sigh. Not bad judging. Why are the judges going to give Alissa huge PCS scores when she's only attempting 4 triple jumps.. They didn't give Lucinda Ruh huge artistic scores when she didn't have the jumps either.

 

[Mathman]

Sigh. Not bad judging. Why are the judges going to give Alissa huge PCS scores when she's only attempting 4 triple jumps.. They didn't give Lucinda Ruh huge artistic scores when she didn't have the jumps either.

It is not so clear what the relation is between how many jumps you attempt and what the judges give you in program component scores.

Here are some skaters who received comparable PCSs at Worlds

Flatt 54.80 (6 triples attempted)
Leonova 53.20 (6 triples attempted)
Lepisto 58.32 (4 triples attempted, but she fell on one, so 3)
Czisny 53.86 (4 triples attempted)
Sugurie 54.72 (5 triples attempted)
Meier 54.64 (4 triples attempted)
Gedevanishvili 53.52 (4 triples attempted)
Poykio 52.72 (6 triples attempted)

I am not seeing much here. I think it might be possible to have good choreography and interpretation, maybe even transitions, and only do four triples (Lepisto, for example.)

 

[bekalc]

I am not seeing much here. I think it might be possible to have good choreography and interpretation, maybe even transitions, and only do four triples (Lepisto, for example.)

Sure, but Lepisto was in the final group and has some of the best basics in the competition. She's also European champion...

 

[Mathman]

Sure, but Lepisto was in the final group and has some of the best basics in the competition. She's also European champion...

Well, the question was whether or not it is bad judging to give skaters higher or lower program component scores because of factors like skate order, number of triples attempted, and whether someone is the European Champion or not.

Blades of Passion's contention was, yes, this is bad judging.

 

[Orion]

It is not so clear what the relation is between how many jumps you attempt and what the judges give you in program component scores.

Here are some skaters who received comparable PCSs at Worlds

Flatt 54.80 (6 triples attempted)
Leonova 53.20 (6 triples attempted)
Lepisto 58.32 (4 triples attempted, but she fell on one, so 3)
Czisny 53.86 (4 triples attempted)
Sugurie 54.72 (5 triples attempted)
Meier 54.64 (4 triples attempted)
Gedevanishvili 53.52 (4 triples attempted)
Poykio 52.72 (6 triples attempted)

I am not seeing much here. I think it might be possible to have good choreography and interpretation, maybe even transitions, and only do four triples (Lepisto, for example.)

What about Carolina Kostner receiving 58.48 in PCS with 1 triple?! In comparison Czisny looked like a veritable jumping bean that night! So no, it doesn't look like it's the number of triples landed that will make the judges reach for the high numbers, rather it looks like a combination of starting order (unfortunately) and previous reputation. Had Czisny been in the last group she would probably have been given about 5 points more in PCS. I find it very unfair that because of their starting order skaters are judged so differently - judges should just judge what they see and nothing else.

 

[Particle Man]

What about Carolina Kostner receiving 58.48 in PCS with 1 triple?!

Wow, WHAT? 58.48 in PCS for THAT complete meltdown? I'd like someone to explain that one to me. Was she missing only the triples, and the program was otherwise spotless? I don't get it, I call BS on the entire system once again.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

IMHO, had she skated her exhibition in the SP, she would have easily finished in 8th if not less place. If they haven't shown that Gala yet, be sure to watch Alissa.

 

[bekalc]

Well, the question was whether or not it is bad judging to give skaters higher or lower program component scores because of factors like skate order, number of triples attempted, and whether someone is the European Champion or not.

Blades of Passion's contention was, yes, this is bad judging.

Maybe Alissa was scored to low in the long program. BUT, if you want to make that argument, you have to also agree that Alissa was scored way to high in the short program for that disaster. The Eursport commentators were furious when they saw Alissa's scores.

 

[Mathman]

The Eursport commentators were furious when they saw Alissa's scores.

I was surprised, too, at Alissa's not-so-bad PCSs in both the short and the long. But then when I saw how generous the judges were being to everyone throughout the contest, it seemed OK.

 

[Andalusia]

As for her bad practices at Worlds, it was too late then for her to withdraw in despair. What would we have thought of her if she had said, "oh dear, I had a bad practice, I guess I should quit."

That's not quite what I meant. Of course, she shouldn't do that; if she had wanted to pull out, she should have done so much earlier. What I am getting at is that her bad practices at Worlds were indicative of her competitive state going into the competition. If she had had the mindset of "I'm hoping for the best at Worlds and I'm gonna fight to do my best", she wouldn't be bombing practices left and right.

Alissa is just a fragile and weak competitor, and has been so for years. There was no reason to expect that she'd have a miraculous transformation in time for Worlds.

Alissa's SP at Worlds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGBFtjod0o

Such a lovely, ethereal quality, but very slow and tentative and ouch on that 2A.

 

[Wrlmy]

Maybe Alissa was scored to low in the long program. BUT, if you want to make that argument, you have to also agree that Alissa was scored way to high in the short program for that disaster. The Eursport commentators were furious when they saw Alissa's scores.

True, but they didn't know the judges were going to inflate the rest of the scores that night.

I have no problem with Alissa's relatively low pcs in the long program because she sealed her fate by placing so low in the short. We don't have to run regression to understand that placement in the short has always been a reliable indicator of the pcs in the long. I don't think it's fair, but that's one way of penalizing missing major elements in the short, which I know you support

 

[Mathman]

Alissa's SP at Worlds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWGBFtjod0o

Such a lovely, ethereal quality, but very slow and tentative and ouch on that 2A.

Thank you for posting that. I didn't see it live and I was afraid to look it up.

I could watch that type of skating all day long.

Well, you are not going to win anything if you fall twice in three jumping passes. But the points that she earned for other aspects of the performance were appropriate, so I have no quarrel with the overall judging.

What I am getting at is that her bad practices at Worlds were indicative of her competitive state going into the competition. If she had had the mindset of "I'm hoping for the best at Worlds and I'm gonna fight to do my best", she wouldn't be bombing practices left and right.

What prevents Alissa from doing her best is nerves. She gets nervous and then her body doesn't work the way it was trained for.

I don't think her bad practices prove that she came to the competition undertrained physically or unprepared mentally. I just think the idea that THIS IS THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP overwhelmed her the minute she set foot on practice ice. Joesitz says she did fine in the exhibition.

Anyway, I actually admire her for forcing herself through these competititions that are obviously torture for her. I hope she gets her pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, whether that means making the Olympic team or starring on Stars on Ice for years to come.

 

[R.D.]

But it's not like Alyssa hasn't been to Worlds before. She went in 2007.

She's just inconsistent, simple as that.

 

[bekalc]

But it's not like Alyssa hasn't been to Worlds before. She went in 2007.

She's just inconsistent, simple as that.

I'm sorry but Alissa cannot jump. She attempts 5 triple jumps. At Skate Canada she got credit for 4 triple jumps. At US Nationals, Cup of Russia, Four Continents, and Worlds she got credit for 3 clean triples.l

This right here suggests to me that it's not so much inconsistency that plagues Alissa as much as it's the inability to jump.

 

[Andalusia]

I don't think her bad practices prove that she came to the competition undertrained physically or unprepared mentally. I just think the idea that THIS IS THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP overwhelmed her the minute she set foot on practice ice. Joesitz says she did fine in the exhibition.

Anyway, I actually admire her for forcing herself through these competititions that are obviously torture for her. I hope she gets her pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, whether that means making the Olympic team or starring on Stars on Ice for years to come.

I don't think she was undertrained physically at all. On the contrary, I have a feeling she trains very hard, probably in the hopes that repetitiveness will breed consistency. I certainly don't think she's the Tonya Harding type of lazy competitor - one just has to read Alissa's latest journal entry to realize she's a very hard-working young lady.

I rewatched her LP on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m0JsHpyuCE), and I have to reiterate that I think she did very well. That's probably the best she's ever performed this LP. She attempted 4 triples (she most likely didn't know the loop was underrotated) - that is just 1 less than Yu-Na had in her FS. You can see she psyched herself out as she was going for the toe loop (the easiest triple) - it's like the program had been going so well up until that point that she had to screw up on that jump. Overall, she looked as if she put up a fight, though - if you watch her face closely in the slow-mo replay of the 2nd 3Lz combo, you can see she has on a very determined, angry look right before she does the 2T; it's as if she fought really hard to tack on that double.

I also have to say that, when done right, Alissa probably has the best lutz out of the top American ladies currently competing - she posesses a very deep, clear outside edge entry on that jump.

 

[bekalc]

She attempted 4 triples (she most likely didn't know the loop was underrotated) - that is just 1 less than Yu-Na had in her FS.

Ugh Yu-na attempted 6 triples, and she also did two big combinations that allowed her to do 3 double axels. Whereas Alissa attempted 4 triples and 2 double axels. They aren't in anyway comparable.