Nope, wrong on all counts. Every single one of them. Proof to support your accusations, please?
Those who have seen YuNa and Patrick live-question
- Thread starter skateluvr
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Nope, wrong on all counts. Every single one of them. Proof to support your accusations, please?
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- Nov 10, 2009
If Mao shows, Mao. Or maybe even Julia. I just don't see Ashley winning, unless it's supposed to be her consolation prize for no Olympic medal...
Also don't forget Ashley, unlike Yuna, doesn't get UNEARNED points.
/sarcasm/
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- Mar 17, 2013
Don't think that is going to happen but I agree with you. I'm an uber and can tell for the most part who the others are as well. The most bashing I see here from YuNa ubers is some eye-rolling, perhaps. And other than defending and challenging negative attacks directed at her or skating qualities, I think we are a thoughtful bunch.
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- Dec 22, 2012
Please read through the threads. Should i copy and paste yuna kim uber post about Mao or the one here who said Mao has not evolve and her fans are not rational is not enough. Drop the hypocrycy
Well, there's one thread right now made for the sole purpose of bashing Mao's 3A. Do you have a problem with that thread? Would it be better if this thread were titled like that one, "Kim...overscored or not?" (Even though this thread didn't even seem to be about that, but about their live performance qualities.) Due to free speech, I think all topics about all skaters, whether critical or not, should be okay for discussion, as long as they don't get into skaters' personal lives.
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- Mar 17, 2013
"Yuna ubers attack any skater who is not Yuna Kim" Nope, don't recall myself or other ubers making a habit of doing that.
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- Jan 15, 2010
Hello, Daleg! Welcome to GS!
I do agree with the first quote you posted. It's true in many cases, I think. And please don't be afraid to share your opinion! Many of us here are very, erm, passionate and cannot contain that as much as we'd like to. We bark, but we don't bite.
(Well, some of us bark louder than others and the ones who bite end up getting banned anyway ...)I actually do have a problem with that thread, hence why I haven't posted in it, though there are some points that I'd like to make. Don't make assumptions about what I think simply because I am, indeed, a Yu-Na fan (in addition to being a skating fan and fan of many other skaters).
So no, I don't think it's justifiable for Minze2001 to write that post about "Yuna ubers" in response to my post when I didn't do any of the things she/he said I did. There isn't a single other "Yuna uber" whom I agree with 100% of the time, and plenty that I disagree with. If posters have a problem with what an individual fan is doing--Yu-Na uber or Mao uber--then disagree with them, but don't start with the blanket insults/inaccurate generalizations about all Yu-Na fans (or Mao fans).
I'm not here to censor, but yes, I do have a huge problem with a poster putting one subject in the thread title that implies an open, honest discussion while actually having the disingenuous intention of just complaining about the skater being overscored.
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- Jun 27, 2003
...sadly I feel like changing the channel... this has gotten boring in a hurry. :disapp:
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- Jun 27, 2003
^ I was going to start a thread titled, "Which skater has the most annoying fans?" -- but then I was afraid Michelle might win.
hmmmm unless the guidelines have changed, pretty sure that's trolling as well as personal attacks against posters...
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- Oct 23, 2011
If Mao shows, Mao. Or maybe even Julia. I just don't see Ashley winning, unless it's supposed to be her consolation prize for no Olympic medal...
Also don't forget Ashley, unlike Yuna, doesn't get UNEARNED points.
When was Ashley overscored really?
Other wise I'm tired to debate attackers. YuNa deserved her wins-I'm talking about the two poster kids for huge overscoring. But you know, after seeing how things are said, disrespect, nasty trollish behavior, personal attacks, I will ask the skate gods to let someone new win.
YuNa's henchman here make me hope Julia, Ashlee, Akiko, anyone gets overscored and wins.
Mental note-ubers are out for blood. I am sick really at the ven-omous fans she has-fanatics, really OTT. You act like a swarm of killer bees. Bullies win. Out.
I seriously do not get your logic. You wish for someone else to win over chan and kim because the ubers have pointed out the obvious intentions you have when creating this thread? You say ubers are bullies when in reality, you are just self targeting yourself waing for ubers to come at your face. And another thing, you started out this thread disrepecting Yuna and Chan by saying they're overscored, and yet you want people who disagree with you to honestly respect your opinions? From what i've seen from other threads, why dont you just make a thread expressing how much you hate Yuna? I mean, you even accuse her for faking her injury, and even though we provided you an evidence that she was ACTUALLY injured, you still didnt pull back your obnoxiously false accusition. At this point, you are just whining how your favorite cannot come close to Yuna, so you put your feelings out to ubers. How unethical.
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- Mar 17, 2013
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- Jan 15, 2010
I remember there were people who believed she was held up at 2013 Nationals, both in the short and long programs.
If I'm not mistaken, you yourself called someone "not very bright" and claimed that someone else "living vicariously, likely had no achievements of [their] own" in this thread. Is that not a personal attack?
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- Sep 22, 2010
Sums up the pattern, pretty much. His/her claim to being shocked and angered and indignant at the results of having created a controversial thread for the umpteenth time? I believed it only the first few times.
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- Jun 16, 2010
When you look at scores other skaters get, Ando getting 130 points at the 2011 Worlds for a so so 5 triple program without much artistry, and 137 points for her clean performance without a triple-triple attempt or triple flip (and Ando is inferior to Kim in every aspect of skating, including even jumps); Asada getting well over 130 points numerous times despite not even coming close to a clean performance in any of them, some of Kostner's scores, then one would understand that Kim's scores at say the 2010 Olympics and 2013 Worlds make total sense. If those were even an ounce too high, than all of those others were certainly too high too, and everyone is being overscored.
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- Mar 23, 2010
Skateluvr you are way out of control even for you... lol predictable though. Way nice to attack a lurker for speaking out what many may have felt for a very long time. At least it was for me.
If however this thread's intention is to pose a genuine question with no ulterior motives (consider who started it... pfwahhaahaa say no more!) As someone who has seen them live many times, I'd say both Patrick and Yuna are incredible and mesmerizing LIVE EVEN MORE than on screen - which is a point why I always try to watch competitions live. Let me preface this post to say the following is my personal opinion only. There's no need to lump me with any particular category, stereotype or generalization thank you very much. I have only paid attention to the sport prior to 2002 for a few years due to Michelle Kwan who inspired me to take up skating for 2 years (I was crap + heartbroken for Michelle + the judging scandal disgusted me so much it felt pretty pointless to continue) and it is only Vancouver who brought my interest right back not knowing ANY of the major players (except obviously Plushy). I initially liked all final flight of ladies (except Miki Ando, that vegas costume and program has got to go.. just mehhh!) and definitely was impressed with the manner which Kim Yu-na of S.Korea laid it out right there and then but along with it the usual healthy dosage of London cynicism (okay my first thought was how the hell did Korea produced such a brilliant genetic modified baby... surreal!). However the more I watched, the more I grew to appreciate the new dynamism of the sport, understand the strength/weakness of the IJS, got to know the rule changes and reason given as well as scavenged though all the youtube old footage of the leading ladies backwards to their beginnings. My interest and appreciation in Yuna Kim's work completely peaked and thrived, while others pretty much waned.
(Advise to haterz...avert your gaze from the rest of this post now. This doomed love fest of gushiness can cause indigestion, faintness, heart palpitations, yunadose intolerant, depression and other cases of bipolar gibberish self defensive victim symptoms as displayed on these board. Just avoid avoid!!)
I saw Patrick live a few times, first time at ATS LA show 2010 for over two days before he became a world champion and then at the world championships in Moscow 2011 when I gave him a standing ovation. My first impression even before he received all the accolades was that his skating skill is immediately apparent even among the more illustrious cast members he was with at the time. I am reminded of watching a young Taichi master on ice, smooth, fast, smart, controlled, strength not brawn at work, speed and turn from nowhere, apparent effortless like butter as if is second nature to him. (Though he seems independent to his surroundings with little awareness of the context of what he is performing to, it is hard to describe.) The edge work, how he carries his body, posture around the rink as if he is sliding on a cloud with very little friction in the sounds he makes with the blade. He might not be artistic back then as now, and he might have even fell a few times during his gala (but he got up awfully fast too!). If this is a sport without music and no jumps, he deserve the crown - falls and all (it is only fair, the world is made of ying and yang). I am lucky to have seen Daisuke in comparison as well at WC 2011, who lived up to the billing as the biggest flirt and charismatic Elvis on ice (AND off), but if I was to be completely honest, skating skill wise, he pales to Patrick. To compare expression, musicality, interpretation, charisma, emotion and intelligence on ice, Patrick has no chance against Dai. Although I admit I have also completely changed my opinion regard to Patrick since his Elegy, I thought Patrick's skating has matured and shaped brilliantly and arguably finally deserve his crazy high PCS and maybe some more. If this is art on ice, Dai wins, if this is pure skating, Patrick wins. Although I do think the smart viewer should always look at the work and what is performed on ice on the day more than who is skating, and what are they skating to. For me, Patrick has the better programs this Olympic season, as I am sad to admit for Dai. I dream of see Hanyu live one day just to see how he fairs with the others or maybe something else more surprising. He seems to skate fast but with much effort; to a point of recklessness during his Romeo and Juliet season that made him terribly exciting to watch. This season however, a lot less, having adapted Kostner's strategy of slowing down and pace himself due to his Asthma.
I was lucky to have seen Yuna many times in shows and in competitions over these last few years including most recently at Golden Spin. She has similar fluidity and effortless as Patrick Chan, the sort of surreal speed and flow out of nowhere that is immediately apparent when compare with most of the ladies especially during warm ups right next to each other. Yuna has something even more attractive than Patrick, it is the clarity of her movements to the music and the ease she moves about with precision but also lyrical freedom that made her appealing to me massively. Yuna has an innate elegance that is only matched by her athleticism that I just don't see from any of the current competitive ladies except may be Mao on the rare occasion where her package fit her. The difference is one that naturally breathed and poured out of her every pores that draws you in vs one that is put upon and packaged and simply do as told with little thought processing. My first surprising impression of Yuna live was that she was surprisingly far more delicate, soft and supple than I ever expected despite her reputation on these boards. There is emotional transparency, poignancy and vulnerability on display seeing her skate live - surprising.
Yuna has an incredible presence on ice, and an intrinsic ability to absorb music nuances like second nature. This can be seen in her numerous rehearsal videos with other people's music playing on the background, and even when the choreographed movement may not necessarily been designed to fit the other piece of music. With her, the music options are great, she doesn't have to match or follow any suitable predetermined style. I find her in competition and during exhibition completely different. There's appears some sort of a switch on and off button that made massive difference in her peak performance. I actually find her Garboesque aloofness during the power OFF mode absolutely beguiling and intriguing only because at power ON mode - the transformation is utterly stunning, staggering and gobsmackingly brilliant! Her physical vocabulary is truly extraordinary, versatile, eloquent, dynamic, fresh yet poetically sensitive and effective in various shades of subtlety when done just right (Physical and emotional state need to be aligned, that is why her Gershwin at Olympics was amazing, while at WC 2010 she was clearly out of it. ). I am convinced her FS is going to be another master work in the making, similar to her Gershwin at last winter Olympic games in challenging her musicality and nuances. I am looking forward to see her elite reading and interpretation of an familiar genre and a well known piece for her final parting program.
People like to disregard her consistency and even take it for granted to the point of slandering her skating liking to a robot, but frankly the amount of effort, focus and pressure to get to that point of human limitations at the biggest competitions is beyond impressive. I do want to add, I have always felt Yuna's spin has been unfairly criticised and distinctively remember being totally wowed by her layback spin at Giselle WC. The speed, centering how it seamlessly integrated with the music to highlight a particular passage, punctuation is even more effective and poignantly expressed than even Alissa's layback, which seems to be slower and smaller than I expected, though still impressive her own way. I also disagree Yuna skating skills are any lesser than Kostner, I'd say they are comparable depends on what they are doing. Kostner definitely has her own presence on ice that is appealing due to her statuesque figure and speed, but holistically, I find Yuna to be more well rounded than all the ladies I have ever seen, but Yuna does it on a bigger scale in terms of 21st century athleticism and dynamism which I suspect the judges appreciate too.
Some thoughts on Asada, which left me a bit befuddled at WC 2011, but I will give her a pass given she seems to be physically fragile and fatigued that particular season (My impression in 2011: She skated girly... like REALLY girly! A shadow of her Vancouver self.) Kostner's speed come with a price of clumsiness in how she moves between from one element that seems rushed and rusty. It is in the detailing, the between elements, the long set up telegraphing her jumps frankly drives me nuts (you can visibly see her thinking, calculating, hoping for the best etc. She looks nervous, it is distracting.) Her jumps are powerful but the entry and the landing are not comparable with Yuna's apparent effortless, power, speed, precision and arguably flow out of it especially they are usually proceed or finish by some transitional movements with little set up time. I remember distinctively when they announced Kostner's Bronze at WC 2011, the entire row where I sat with (many N. Americans?) went 'huh?!' due to the mistake ridden performance in her short and that there's no 3/3s, no lutz in her FS. Where once again, she get the special 'European Royal with Cheese' treatment. Surprising, I thought Alena came across great and likable and more enjoyable live at that world championship (or maybe it was just the audiences reception which surely have helped, so I can understand a little bit behind judge's psychology to rewarding home favs. It does make the sport a bit unfair to those who has no or hardly any home events) and though the reason she came back so strong next season was the judges way of compensate for her close Bronze at WC Championships. It is similar to the treatment they gave to Mirai before she let that momentum go post vancouver and USFA/Frank seems to have given up on her (saddest story this quad for me, I hope she has a great redeeming skate at nationals).
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- Nov 10, 2009
Ashley beating Gracie in 2013 Nats? Ring a bell?
Henchman? lol. You started this thread specifically to complain about OVERSCORING of Yuna, not because you honestly wanted to discuss and understand how Yuna & Patrick score what they do.
You have not made a case as to WHY Julia, Ashley, Akiko, etc. should score as high as Yuna. You can't even state why you believe Yuna was overscored in London. You just state OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN that she was, creating multiple threads to do so, while trying to prop up your personal favorite (Ashley it seems like at this moment).
Is Ashley a better jumper than Yuna?
Is Ashley faster than Yuna?
Is Ashley cleaner than Yuna? (in program performance)
Is Ashley more lyrical than Yuna?
Is Ashley more consistent than Yuna?
You speak of "reputation" judging. Well, you know what? Yuna was a nobody at some point. She built her reputation -- if there's such thing as "reputation-based PCS". She doesn't even have a big and powerful federation behind her either.
If Ashley doesn't get "reputation scoring" despite her federation behind her, etc., maybe it's HER OWN FAULT for not building up her reputation and not being able to create her own momentum. Sorry, a woman who thinks her job in London was to get 3 Olympics spots doesn't get a brownie point.
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